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Thread: Questions about Open Carrying

  1. #1
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    Question Questions about Open Carrying

    I just purchased a pistol and a holster, I don't know too much abuot OC-ing, yet. I have several questions about it.

    What an open carrying person must have with himself/herself? ID card? Other documents?

    Do I need my Pistol Purchase Permit in my pocket? (I don't have a CPL.)

    If yes, only the original one is good, or a copy (copymachine) is also fine?

    I think it's a good idea, if I print the pamphlets, I print the rules, laws, too. (Like this one: http://www.michigan.gov/documents/ms...2_336854_7.pdf )

    I know the schools are gun-free zones, but are there a gun-free zone circles too AROUND the schools? (Some people are talking about a 1000-2000 feet circle, but
    I think there is no such law.) I should know this, because our home is really close to a school. If the law exists, maybe I can't even carry in my neighbourhood?

    Why officers asking CPL from OC-ers? Is it because they don't know the law? Or the reason is something else? I thought the one of the reason of OC-ing, because you don't need a CPL to do that.

  2. #2
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    Michigan police officers from many, but certainly not all departments, more so than in many other states, have an elitest mindset, often referred to as being "us against them". To these twisted individuals who got into their profession for all the wrong reasons, a handgun is a symbol of both authority and superiority. Regardless of the law, seeing someone else carrying openly is easily taken by these twits as a challenge to their manhood and/or authority. This is why they are known to cause trouble. In Michigan cities and counties where the police don't have this attitude issue, they treat OCers as fellow human beings, with all people being worthy of the same respect. In some states this is to be expected, in Michigan it can be a crap shoot. The good news is that most of the hard work has been done in the past several years, and few officers are any longer willing to risk their careers to unlawfully detain you, but it can still happen.

    Since you have a registered pistol, but no CPL, you can carry right up to school grounds, but not on them. Due to abusive racist law from the 1920's, the registration process is a "license to carry" which expressly makes the federal gun free school zones act inapplicable to Michigan residents who own and are carrying pistols registered to them. And Michigan has no 1000 foot law, only laws about the school grounds themselves.

    Recently the law was changed, and you do now need to have your registration car with you while transporting your pistol, but just for the first 30 days as the MSP puts it into their system. After that, it's not required. Do be aware however that the MSP, sheriffs departments and local PD's are known to **** up and not register your gun at times. I strongly suggest keeping the card in a safe, and copies are good too. I do not suggest carrying it after the 30 days, ever. There is no reason to. Other than while hunting, OCing as a licensed non resident, or when carrying concealed or in a car, there is no requirement to have ID because of being armed.
    Last edited by Michigander; 06-04-2011 at 10:49 PM.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    One other thing, I wrote this book as a guide for new comers to open carrying, and it also works well as a reference for experienced open carriers. http://www.citizensleaguesd.com/

    It is very thorough, and is agreed upon by every experienced person that I've heard from who has read it to answer all the applicable questions that a person may have. It is by the way a fund raising item, I make no money on it. You can also learn all their is to know from looking through the web, but it will take much longer and not be in this easy of a format to refer to.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    I dont have time to get into this in any depth right now, I'll get back to it in a bit, if someone else doesn't cover it first.

    There are a few things that you absolutely must know. Do not go onto the premises of any place that has any liquor license at all. Including the local Meijers and Krogers.

    Do not carry in or on any vehicle, including bicycles.

    There is a 1000 foot federal school zone. Your purchase permit exempts you. Dont go to school with a gun.

    Get your CPL.

    You do not have to carry ID.

    Stay out of the areas listed in 750.234d, its in the link you provided.

    Go read the stickies,especially malignity's thread, open carry guide project. Print the carry chart on WARCHILDs thread, open carry reference chart, its on post # 100 or 101.

    Most people who are in jail helped the police put them there. Dont talk any more than you need to.

    How much training have you had? Be honest.

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    Welcome to OCDO

    Find one of us in your area, and see if you can meet up with them to show you the ropes.
    Last edited by stainless1911; 06-04-2011 at 11:39 PM.

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    Get your CPL.
    I have problem with this one. $200 for a class + $105 for a CPL + more for renewing it? If I would have $1 million I would still think it's way too much money for a license.
    Personally, I think it's a scam. Former LEOs running the CPL classes, the state is taking money for a piece of paper.

    How much training have you had? Be honest.
    I did read a lot about it on .gov websites, I got firearm safety pamphlets, I did learn a lot about OCing. In MI there is a safety test, before you get a Handgun Purchase Permit. I knew all the answers. I also watching the CPL class videos on Youtube. (A MI CPL trainer has videos about his training.)

    I know the answers, I just want to be 100 percent sure about the law and rules, before I go for a walk with my pistol.

    I have a Stainless 1911. Thanks for the welcome.

    Thank you for the replies.
    Last edited by Steve47; 06-05-2011 at 12:00 AM.

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    The CPL system is a scam. Im on food stamps and I buy my guns with change and bottle deposit, I know broke, he lives with me. The CPL makes life a lot easier even if it is a stomach churning infringement.

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    The reason I asked about training is that shooting, and shooting people aint the movies. Anyone with a brain can learn, but you do have to learn. Shoot often as you can, look into reloading to save money, and practice drawing, pointing,(empty gun here), get snapcaps, whatever you need to do to become muscle memory proficient. we're not trying to break world records here, just making sure you can hit what you need to, and nothing else.

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    Keep your purchase permit on you at all times for the first 30 days. They should have told you that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    The CPL system is a scam. Im on food stamps and I buy my guns with change and bottle deposit, I know broke, he lives with me. The CPL makes life a lot easier even if it is a stomach churning infringement.
    +1 OCing without a CPL can get you easily jammed up. IE.....walking through a parking lot of a business with a liquor license. I'm not going to argue for or against CPLs, I'm just saying that it is the way to go to avoid most potential legalities.

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    That's right, I dont like to discourage anyone, I'd have guns issued to people if it were up to me, but OC without a CPL should only be done after one has become very familiar with the laws.

    It doesn't take long.

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    Thank you for the advices.

    Yes, my FFL dealer told me that about the purchase permit. He said "keep it for at least 30 days, but it's better if you keep it forever".

    I think this permit system is also annoying. I took the test, they ran the background check, I paid $10 for their signature.
    I ordered my handgun, but the store didn't ship it, just days later, the shipping took t days, so it was 12+ days, my permit is expired then. New test, new NICS check, new form, new signature, another $10.

    I have 2 long guns too. I wonder why purchasing a handgun must be different, then purchasing an AR-15.

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    Dont try to make sense out of gun control, it doesnt make sense, because it was the result of people that have no sense. If they did, they would carry guns too.

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    I forgot to tell this:

    Usually, I walk around the neighbourhood, on the sidewalk, every morning/evening. I just think it makes no sense to walk on the street after dark without self protection, if I have a pistol at home.

    walking through a parking lot of a business with a liquor license
    Section 234d, (1) h; An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act. Also applies to the parking lot of said location. Therefore, if you are in the parking lot of a grocery store that sells liquor, or a restaurant that happens to have a bar, not only can you not carry there but you cannot legally have a firearm on the premises.
    This is sounds complicated. If you go somewhere, you must call every single store/restaurant/business and ask them "do you sell alcohol?". You can't just ask them there, because if you walk close to the building, you are braking the law then. How do you even know if a grocery store or restaurant has a liquor license?

    if you are in the parking lot of a grocery store that sells liquor
    I don't even know any "alcohol-free" grocery stores. I know the VG's and the Meijer sell wine.

    I found another guide http://www.migunowners.org/pub/OpenC...ideProject.pdf
    Last edited by Steve47; 06-12-2011 at 04:53 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    Dont try to make sense out of gun control, it doesnt make sense, because it was the result of people that have no sense. If they did, they would carry guns too.
    I'm sure their bodyguards carry.

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  17. #17
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    Your best bet, is to meet up at an OC picnic, or a dinner, or just meet up with someone on here one on one, or a small group. Where do you live?

    (ten dollars yikes!!! I thought most cities were free now, or $2 for the notary fee, FYI, it doesn't have to be notarized by them, your bank/credit union will normally do it for free).

    Also not having a CPL and OC'n is a pain in the rear. You already know first hand about having to go through PP. No PP with a CPL. Also, you can't OC in a vehicle without a CPL, you can't OC in any of the CEZ (Criminal Empowerment Zones/PFZ Pistol Free Zones). You can't OC anywhere with a LL (Liquor License), and not just "by the glass", like a bar or restaurant, I mean anywhere, like Meijer or many gas stations, even if they don't sell liquor, so you might not even know they have one.

    Their are CPL classes out their for $50 and $75, I am not saying they are great, in fact their are FEW great classes out their. But if your going to do the research yourself anyways, and know the laws on your own already, all you need is their piece of paper. Its $105 every five years for your CPL, and contrary to popular belief you only take the class once, you do not take a class when you renew, affirm that you have studied Michigan Firearm Laws for 3 hours, and had 1 hour on the range, in the 6 months prior.

    Good Luck, and God Bless!
    Hit one of us up, or get to a get together.

    And WELCOME to OCDO!!!

    ETA: Open Carry is a right, a CPL is a Privilege, it is disgusting and something we are all (hopefully) working to get changed. But until it is changed it is what it is. But also look at it this way, if GOD FORBID you have to use your firearm in Self Defense, a prosecutor is going to have much MORE of a field day if your NOT a CPL holder.
    Last edited by eastmeyers; 06-05-2011 at 01:16 AM.
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    "Then said he to them, But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his sack: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
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    I see. I guess the CPL is a must then, and I don't really have a choice. Too bad.

    Your best bet, is to meet up at an OC picnic, or a dinner, or just meet up with someone on here one on one, or a small group.
    I tried at the Memorial Day, last Sunday (OC-ers were marching in S.H.). I just cannot find them. I was looking for them and couldn't find them, I guess they were on the other side of the parking lot or something.
    Last edited by Steve47; 06-05-2011 at 01:26 AM.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve47 View Post
    I guess the CPL is a must then, and I don't really have a choice. Too bad.



    I tried at the Memorial Day, last Sunday (OC-ers were marching in S.H.). I just cannot find them. I was looking for them all the place, I guess they were on the other side of the parking lot or something.
    They were their. I know them. I wasn't their, but I know they were. What are your days off?

    And a CPL is not a must, but it is a "must". In other words, you can OC without one, but your basically limited to walking around the block.
    Last edited by eastmeyers; 06-05-2011 at 01:26 AM.
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
    Bam!" - eastmeyers

    "Then said he to them, But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his sack: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
    Luke 22:36
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    I work all week, usually at night.

    but your basically limited to walking around the block.
    That's what I'm looking for right now.
    Do you know any cheap CPL class around Detroit? The one I found is like $200. Way too much money.


    stainless1911:
    Shoot often as you can
    I heard there is a free shooting range in Lapeer.
    Last edited by Steve47; 06-12-2011 at 05:02 AM.

  21. #21
    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve47 View Post
    I work all day, usually at night.



    That's what I'm looking for right now.
    Do you know any cheap CPL class around Detroit? The one I found is like $200. Way too much money.


    stainless1911:


    I heard there is a free shooting range in Lapeer.
    The Pit, its in Lapeer. Its free! Yes! Hold on a minute, I will see if I can find a cheep class, I will only do someone elses research for up to a minute, after that they are on their own. But the president of MOC teaches classes, the best class that I know of, and I highly doubt its $200, but it also isn't going to be a $50 class either.

    Here is a $99 dollar class, on 8mile in Southfield. http://impactrange.com/

    And here is MOC presidents http://webbtactical.com/

    And here is one in Detroit http://legallyarmedindetroit.com/
    this is Rick Ector's page, who is also an MOC member.
    Last edited by eastmeyers; 06-05-2011 at 02:10 AM.
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
    Bam!" - eastmeyers

    "Then said he to them, But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his sack: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
    Luke 22:36
    God Bless

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    Thank you, I saved the links.

  23. #23
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    Here's another.

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%2...aspx?page=home

    Look up 750.231a
    750.234d
    750.227
    750.237a
    28.425o
    Last edited by stainless1911; 06-05-2011 at 02:21 AM.

  24. #24
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    Hey Stainless, can you give him (post) the address for The Pit? I can't find it. Lost the address, guess when you have been somewhere enough times (and its only two turns) its easy to misplace the address.
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
    Bam!" - eastmeyers

    "Then said he to them, But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his sack: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
    Luke 22:36
    God Bless

  25. #25
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    I think I found it.

    2691 Roods Lake Rd
    Lapeer, MI 48446

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