Arguing citizen rights in regards to Church carry

McX · Jun 5, 2011

This thursday our Church elders are meeting to set a policy regarding Church Carry. It sounds like they are miscontruing some Bible verses to fit against my rights. stuff like; Bible says dont turn the Church into a den of theives, it is a santuary of peace. Stuff like that. I could use some help to firm up my arguement, quotes, examples i can point to. i'd appreciate all the help i can get. I WILL be attending this meeting!

wild boar · Jun 5, 2011

If JC would have been packing.....never mind.

Shotgun · Jun 5, 2011

If you Google "church shootings" you'll come up with plenty of well-known an lesser-known examples of shootings in and around churches.

You know, after Ben Franklin invented the lightning rod, churches were of the opinion that God would protect them and they didn't need any device to protect their church from lightning. Being often the tallest structure in town back then, it only took a number of churches burning up due to lightning strikes before practical preventative measures of installing lightning rods seemed a more effective and reliable method. Lo and behold, God didn't seem to have any reluctance to violate the "no lightning zone" of a church and I doubt criminals would have any greater reluctance to violate a "no guns" zone of a church. Which church banning firearms wants to be the next example of how little effectiveness there is to simply having "a policy and a sign?"

ccwinstructor · Jun 5, 2011

Here are some ideas

McX said:
This thursday our Church elders are meeting to set a policy regarding Church Carry. It sounds like they are miscontruing some Bible verses to fit against my rights. stuff like; Bible says dont turn the Church into a den of theives, it is a santuary of peace. Stuff like that. I could use some help to firm up my arguement, quotes, examples i can point to. i'd appreciate all the help i can get. I WILL be attending this meeting!

There is an essay on Christianity and the Second Amendment here:

http://www.keepandbeararms.com/information/XcIBViewItem.asp?ID=131

davegran · Jun 5, 2011

McX said:
This thursday our Church elders are meeting to set a policy regarding Church Carry. It sounds like they are miscontruing some Bible verses to fit against my rights. stuff like; Bible says dont turn the Church into a den of theives, it is a santuary of peace. Stuff like that. I could use some help to firm up my arguement, quotes, examples i can point to. i'd appreciate all the help i can get. I WILL be attending this meeting!

Just do a Google on "guns and the bible" and you will have plenty of verses to counter their verses, plus the attachment I sent has listed the known church massacres.

rcawdor57 · Jun 5, 2011

There Are Many Verses In The Bible For Self Defense....

I didn't write scripture, only my basic understanding of them....there are many more than what I posted for self defense and standing up and protecting yourself and one's family.

Exodus 22:2-3 "Self Defense"

Proverbs 25:26 "Self Defense"

1 Timothy 5:8 "Work For Your Living"

Psalm 144:1 "Train For War And Battle"

Mathew 15 and Mark 7 "Religious leaders opposing the execution of those deserving of death"

Ezekiel 18:20b

Luke 22:36 "Buy a sword"

Mathew 26:52-54

McX · Jun 5, 2011

thanks guys, keep it coming, i am pouring over this stuff, i will be fighting the politically correct, and as you can see they are using Bible verses out of context already. i intend to bring a copy of the constution and argue these points as well;

the constitution is the supreme law of the land, the amendment that guarentees religious freedom, and freedom of speech, and yet the Church seeks to infringe on my 2nd amendment rights, in a place that exists because of the constitution?!!!!!!

will the Church guarentee me absolute safety, and repay me if a event occurs, where i am in Church disarmed, and the criminal element(s) attack the Church?!

this has truly got my dander up!

McX · Jun 5, 2011

davegran said:
Just do a Google on "guns and the bible" and you will have plenty of verses to counter their verses, plus the attachment I sent has listed the known church massacres.

thanks Dave, this is going to help alot!

rcawdor57 · Jun 5, 2011

Here Are A Few More....

The Catholic Church has an official statement about self defense called the "Catechism" which outlines a consistent Christian view.

Section 2263 of the Catechism states that using deadly force in the "legitimate defense of persons and societies" is not murder.

Section 2264 states clearly that you have a right to life and when you defend it you are not guilty of murder even if you are forced to kill your aggressor.

Section 2265 basically states that armed self defense is mandatory in some cases.

Also take a look at section 2242 about evil governments and peoples obligations to NOT follow laws that violate fundamental rights.

Read section 2243 completely so you get the correct meaning of it.

McX · Jun 5, 2011

i also intend to appeal to their common sense, if they have any; the Church during the service collects large sums of cash. what if the criminal element discovers this, and hits upon the idea of; let's rob the Church!

ksks · Jun 5, 2011

Remember the disciples carried swords. Peter tried to whack the guards head off after they came for him in the garden.

Big Dipper · Jun 5, 2011

You can also find some articles on the "sanctity of self defense" at JEWS FOR THE PRESERVATION
OF FIREARMS OWNERSHIP - http://jpfo.org/

They were also the producers of the video "No Guns for Negroes" and how that was the genesis of most of our current gun control laws.

McX · Jun 5, 2011

ksks said:
Remember the disciples carried swords. Peter tried to whack the guards head off after they came for him in the garden.

probably would have been successful if he had had a .45

it will be midnight in the garden of good and evil, and from where i stand, i see evil.

smithman · Jun 5, 2011

Self defense is 100% supported by scripture. Anybody who attempts to say otherwise does NOT know the scriptures. I would therefore not trust them to get other parts of scripture correct, either.

People say "Jesus didn't carry a gun so you shouldn't either". Well, guess what, Jesus didn't need to carry a gun, or a sword, or a dagger, or any other physical thing. Matthew 26:53 tells us why (while Jesus was being arrested) "Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels?". Jesus was the father and had all the father's power. Why would he need a sword when nothing is impossible for him to do? It would certainly have been easier to counter those nay-sayers today had Jesus demonstrated carrying a sword, but there really would be no point to him doing so.

Don't let Matthew 26:52 confuse your elders either. Context, context, context!

oak1971 · Jun 5, 2011

Luke 22:36 He (Jesus) said to them, "But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one."

protias · Jun 5, 2011

http://www.youtube.com/user/ptmccain

He is a pastor in the LCMS who is also pro-firearms.

McX · Jun 5, 2011

win some, lose some; after a heated email exchange with the ' powers that be' within my Church, i learned their no gun policy implementation was in direct relation to my insisting my right of carry be allowed there. the anti-gun position is intrenched, and quite a ways up the food chain there. any arguements i presented were futile. so i voted with my feet, tendered my resignation, and will now seek another Church that recognizes my rights in our locale.

MR Redenck · Jun 5, 2011

Only one arguement when it comes to self defense.

IT's A God Givin Right!

McX · Jun 5, 2011

Hey! we shouldnt criticize them! i'm sure their no gun policy will stop all crime and criminals at the entrance!

paul@paul-fisher.com · Jun 5, 2011

Wait a minute, I thought they had a school on site? If so, it's a moot point, isn't it?

I'd still be upset but can they even legally issue permission?

What denomination is this church?

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