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Thread: Airsoft Ban Detroit?

  1. #1
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    Airsoft Ban Detroit?

    I was looking at an airsoft gun, a P22, and when I clicked on the shipping info box, it said that it cannot be shipped to Detroit. IIRC, a 6mm airsoft meets the definition of a firearm under Michigan law, (cite please), therefore, the prohibition would be illegal under preemption. Correct?

    http://www.basspro.com/Walther-P22-C...01109/-1422972
    Last edited by stainless1911; 06-05-2011 at 01:19 PM.

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    28.421 (b) "Firearm" means a weapon from which a dangerous projectile may be propelled by an explosive, or by gas or air. Firearm does not include a smooth bore rifle or handgun designed and manufactured exclusively for propelling by a spring, or by gas or air, BB's not exceeding .177 caliber.

    752.841 Firearms; definition.
    Sec. 1.
    For the purposes of this act the word “firearm” shall mean any weapon or device from which is propelled any missile, projectile, bullet, shot, pellet or other mass by means of explosives, compressed air or gas, or by means of springs, levers or other mechanical device.

  3. #3
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    If the airsoft "gun" is considered a firearm in Michigan, it would be covered under preemption. If they are considered to not be a firearm by the state of Michigan, it could he banned as Michigan state law does not preempt local regulation of replica firearms/ toy firearms.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  4. #4
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    That's what I'm getting at. Its a .22 cal, so even though its a smooth bore its a firearm.

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    It's Because Of These Guy's!!!

  6. #6
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    They must practice reloading a bit more than marksmanship.

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    I sent them the following Email.

    To the Legal Department at Bass Pro Shops

    I was looking at the Airsoft P-22 Walther, and clicked on the "important shipping notice" icon, and noticed a problem. It said that you cannot ship this item to the city of Detroit. This prohibition is contrary to the laws in the state of Michigan. I'll post the necessary cites below. An airsoft gun of this type and caliber is considered to be, by definition, a firearm in the state of Michigan. Michigan also has a law that preempts local units of government from making certain restrictions against firearms. The city of Detroit will fall under the definitions listed in the preemption law. This means, that the cities prohibition mentioned on your site is in violation of state law, and should be dealt with by your legal team. This is costing you at least, a little bit of money.

    MCL 123.1102 Regulation of pistols or other firearms.

    Sec. 2.

    A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state.

    MCL 752.841 Sec. 1.

    For the purposes of this act the word “firearm” shall mean any weapon or device from which is propelled any missile, projectile, bullet, shot, pellet or other mass by means of explosives, compressed air or gas, or by means of springs, levers or other mechanical device.

    MCL 28.421

    28.421 (b) "Firearm" means a weapon from which a dangerous projectile may be propelled by an explosive, or by gas or air. Firearm does not include a smooth bore rifle or handgun designed and manufactured exclusively for propelling by a spring, or by gas or air, BB's not exceeding .177 caliber.


    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%2...e=mcl-123-1102

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%2...me=mcl-752-841

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%2...ame=mcl-28-421

    Thank you for your attention to this matter, sincerely, Neil Carpenter

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    I do not have a cite handy but I am quite certain that airsoft pellets are not considered dangerous projectiles therefore airsoft "gun" is not a firearm in mi.

    Do you need a purchase permit to buy one? No pp or ri60 required then it is not a pistol.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

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    They will draw blood, they can blind a person, I fail to see how they arent dangerous, they wont sell them to kids either.

    28.421 (b) "Firearm" means a weapon from which a dangerous projectile may be propelled by an explosive, or by gas or air. Firearm does not include a smooth bore rifle or handgun designed and manufactured exclusively for propelling by a spring, or by gas or air, BB's not exceeding .177 caliber.

    Since its over .177, and spring operated, I can see it being a firearm.

    I too considered the lack of a PP. but I had heard (hearsay) of certain stores requiring them. I think that its a typical .gov classic, of the right hand not knowing wqhat the left hand is doing.

    I dont personally think that it is, or should be, a firearm, IMO, that is absurd. But legally, its a grey area, like OWB OC, or OC/bicycle w/o a CPL.

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Then don't forget blow-guns, I mean they have gun right in their name.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    Then don't forget blow-guns, I mean they have gun right in their name.
    So do cap guns, which I loved playing with as a child.

  12. #12
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Damn! I forgot to register those two airsoft pistols I bought at Meijers -- and they didn't ask for my CPL, nor did they run a NICs check.

    This means:

    I'm in trouble...

    OR...

    Airsofts aren't firearms.

    Cigarettes aren't gun but they won't sell them or butane to persons under 18.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  13. #13
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    That's what I'm getting at. Its a .22 cal, so even though its a smooth bore its a firearm.
    Not necessarily. The MSP has stated that a paintball gun is not a firearm. I also recall seeing something to the effect the MSP does not consider airsoft a firearm and will not register them as firearms. If that is the case, then Detroit would not be violating the law. Do you have airsoft now? Did you register them? If you don't have an airsoft pistol right now, call your local pd and tell them you want to register one and see what they say.

    Oh, the issue wasn't the barrel, it was that the fps of the projectiles were too low to be considered dangerous.
    Last edited by DrTodd; 06-05-2011 at 10:19 PM.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Ok.

    Ive heard some pretty ridiculous gun control in my time, would anyone here really be surprised if airsoft became a target?

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    you'll shoot your eye out.

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    Nope "air soft guns" are not guns by legal definition. But yes they can be dangerous, so don't shoot yourself. And since they are not "real" guns detroit can ban them if they so choose to do so. And if shipping is an issue go to a local toy store or maybe an an army/navy surplus store and buy one. NBD you probably have more important things to worry about.









    '
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

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    I do, but had to poke the bear too.

    Bass pro has a Walther P22 in stock, I want to get it for Eko. I have a P-22 in layaway for her, but I still need to get her muzzle control under control before I cut her loose with the real thing. I dont wanna get shot by anyone, but especially not an 8 year old. A full scale version of the exact gun Im getting her will make a perfect training aid. She's got everything else down, just still points the handguns at people, not the rifles though, which is odd, but whatever, she'll get it.

  18. #18
    Michigan Moderator Shadow Bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    I do, but had to poke the bear too.
    Ow! What did I do?
    'If the people are not ready for the exercise of the non-violence of the brave, they must be ready for the use of force in self defense. There should be no camouflage.....it must never be secret.' MK Gandhi II-146 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)-- Gandhi supports open carry!

    'There is nothing more demoralizing than the fake non-violence of the weak and impotent.' MK Gandhi II-153 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)

  19. #19
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    You stole my pickinik basket.

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    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
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    Stainless what would the forum do without you? Such lively and entertaining discussion topics! And stop pokeing the Bear! What did he ever do to you?

    But if you must, then at least use this as a training senario! have the little one shoot the bear from a distance, because bears are only dangerous within arms reach!
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

    Michigan Concealed Pistol Instructor. Cost 80.00 With advanced techniques included free. PM for more information!

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    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    I can put up eminem songs too. Whats the point??? Two good ones too!

    http://youtu.be/mbNvY8PBaQo
    http://youtu.be/71oT0Q8fu_8
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
    Bam!" - eastmeyers

    "Then said he to them, But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his sack: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
    Luke 22:36
    God Bless

  23. #23
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    Shaun asked what would we do without me, it fits.

  24. #24
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    Thats been in my sig for a while now.
    The lyrics to soldier fit me way too well. Hahahaha
    Last edited by stainless1911; 06-11-2011 at 12:15 AM.

  25. #25
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    i'm a soldier...

    Yo', never was a thug, just infatuated with guns,
    never was a gangsta, 'til I graduated to one,
    and got the rep of a villain, for weapon concealin',
    took the image of a thug, kept $#!+ appealin',
    willin' to stick out my neck, for respect if it meant life or death,
    never live to regret what I said,
    when you're me, people just want to see,
    if it's true, if it's you, what you say in your rap's, what you do,
    so they feel, as part of your obligation to fulfill,
    when they see you on the streets, face to face, are you for real,
    in confrontation ain't no conversation, if you feel you're in violation,
    any hesitation'll get you killed, if you feel it, kill it,
    if you conceal it, reveal it, being reasonable will leave you full of bullets,
    pull it, squeeze it, till it's empty, tempt me, push me, pussies,
    I need a good reason to give this trigger a good squeeze...

    [Chorus:]
    I'm a soldier, these shoulder's hold up so much, they won't budge,
    i'll never fall or fold up,
    i'm a soldier,
    even if my collar bone's crush or crumble,
    I will never slip or stumble,
    i'm a soldier,
    these shoulder's hold up so much, they won't budge,
    i'll never fall or fold up,
    i'm a soldier,
    even if my collar bone's crush or crumble,
    I will never stumble...

    I love pissin' you off, it get's me off,
    like my lawyer's, when the fuckin' judge let's me off,
    all you Mother Fu***** gotta do is set me off,
    i'll violate and all the motherfuckin' bet's be off,
    i'm a lit fuse, anything I do bitche, it's news,
    pistol whippin' motherfuckin' bouncers, six-two,
    who needs bullets, soon as I pull it, you sweat bullets,
    an excellent method to get rid of the next bully,
    it's actually better cause instead you murderin',
    you can hurt em' and come back again and kick dirt at 'em,
    it's like pourin' salt in the wounds, assault and get sued,
    you can smell the lawsuits soon as I waltz in the room,
    everybody halts and stops, calls the cops,
    all you see is bitches comin' out their halter tops,
    runnin' and duckin' out the Hard Rocks parking lot,
    you'll all get shot whether its your fault or not, cause...

    [Chorus]

    I spit it slow so these kids know that i'm talkin' to 'em,
    give it back to these damn critics and sock it to em,
    i'm like a thug, with a little bit of Pac influence,
    I spew it, and look how I got you bitches rockin' to it,
    you MotherFu***** could never do it like I could do it,
    don't even try it, you'll look stupid, do not pursue it,
    don't ever in your life, try to knock the truest,
    I spit the illest $#!+, ever been dropped to two inch,
    so ticky-tock listen as the sound ticks on the clock,
    listen to the sound of Kim as she licks on a cock,
    listen to the sound of me spillin' my heart through this pen,
    Mother Fu***** know that i'll never be Marshall again,
    full of controversy until I retire my jersey,
    'til the fire inside dies and expires at thirty, and
    Lord have mercy on any more of these rappers that verse me,
    and put a curse on authorities in the face of adversity, i'm a...
    Last edited by stainless1911; 06-11-2011 at 12:19 AM.

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