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Thread: Interesting (non) event at Guilford Wendys

  1. #1
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Interesting (non) event at Guilford Wendys

    Quote Originally Posted by http://withregardstorights.com/post/2011/06/05/Interesting-(non)-event-at-Guilford-Wendys.aspx
    We decided to start national OC day by grabbing some lunch at Wendys in Guilford. When we got in line, there were a lot more people in line than we thought there would be, but no big deal. I am not a huge fan of standing in large crowds while OCing (situational awareness and hyper vigilance can be stressful). Got the normal curious looks and stuff, but no faces of terror and panic like some people would have you believe. Business as usual. Ordered, paid, manager and cashiers at the front seemed to notice my firearm, but did not appear too concerned and made no mention of it. (Again, this is typical of most times that I OC)

    We sat down and were finishing up our meal when I see a Guilford PD Ford Expedition pull into the parking lot. I made my girlfriend aware of this just in case it turned into anything. We continued to sit there eating and talking and we observed the officer walk in looking like he was checking out every male's hip on the way in. I told my girlfriend at this point that "He is looking for me". No big deal, not my first time, and he seems relaxed enough, but I do like to be aware of my surroundings. Not enjoyable to be suprised by law enforcement, especially if they are not friendly. We continued our conversation and figured I would be contacted at any moment.

    The officer appears to be a supervisor (I assume by his vehicle and his age), and he walks up to the cashier area. He talks (possibly ordering) and after what seemed like a little longer than necessary, he walks out with his bag of food.

    What do I take out of this? There are a few possibilities:

    - He was called, knew the law, figured he could check it out while grabbing some food, learned from the management that I was polite and professional and was simply eating a burger. Knowing the law and the current situation in Connecticut, there is no reason for him to contact me. No law is being broken.

    - He wasn't called and was just coming in for some lunch. When he got inside, someone alerted him to my presence near the door and he checked for himself, but again found that the management had no issue with me and decided to not make contact.

    - He was simply getting lunch and either he walks into every place checking out people's hips, or this was misperceived by both of us.

    I doubt the last one is the most likely from the behavior I witnessed, but regardless, this is a positive encounter. Here is why:

    Either

    - He knew the law enough that when he either got a call or was alerted to my presence that he knew he didn't have to make contact if I wasn't doing anything else wrong.

    - None of the people in the restaurant cared enough (because I can assure you they all noticed enough) about my openly carried firearm to even mention it to an officer while he was casually standing in a Wendys. This is not at all implausible, this is our standard observation of people's reaction to OC. It doesn't explain him apparently checking out every male's hip on the way in.

    Either way, I consider this a strong, positive encounter with OC in Connecticut. I have suspected this kind of thing has happened before, but we have never had such direct affirmation of no one caring about OC as this incident gave us. And that is the 'goal', right? No one should care about OC. Just another law abiding citizen who has accepted the personal responsibility of providing for his own defense.

    If the officer in Guilford was responding to my being there and it is as I think it is, then I want to thank the Guilford PD and that officer for knowing the law and reacting appropriately. At least 2 dozen Wendys customers saw a man with a holstered firearm (Glock 23 w/TLR 1 in a Galco Halo) walk in, order, eat and have an officer walk in, order, eat and everything was completely kosher. This is the best way that I know of to send a positive message and image to the people and officers of Connecticut.

    I think the best thing to do now is to make a FOIA request to Guilford PD and see if they did, in fact, receive and/or respond to any calls of MWAG at Wendys today. This should at least tell us what scenario played out. If Guilford did respond and that was the reaction, I will personally thank the officer for his professional handling of the situation.

    As stated in the goals of the national OC day, it should be a non-event. This was more of an event than I normally even get while OCing, but I feel it was a positive one that shows the tide is changing in Connecticut.
    Thoughts?

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    Regular Member usamarshal's Avatar
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    Hmmm...did he get a frosty? If so, was it chocolate or vanilla?...haha...j/k...had to throw that in there...

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    Regular Member KIX's Avatar
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    I'm wondering if he didn't see your hip and left? Is that a possibility?

    Either way, glad it was no big deal.

    I'm with ya on the situational awareness bit. Something I discuss briefly in my normal basic pistol course. We go a bit deeper into it on the concealed carry course as well. Way too many people carry and have NO CLUE about what's going on around them.

    Nothing here in Middletown today either, but I think I just wasn't spotted by "the fuzz".

    Jonathan
    www.ctpistolpermitissues.com - tracking all the local issuing authority, DPS and other insanity with permit issues
    www.ctgunsafety.com - my blog and growing list of links useful to gun owners (especially in Connecticut).

    Rich B: My favorite argument against OC being legal in CT is "I have never seen someone OC in CT".
    I have never seen a person drink tea from a coke bottle while standing on their head, that doesn't mean it is illegal.

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    Cool

    Hi Rich. I had a good birthday and open carry. I O.C. in theses towns while shopping with my wife NEWINGTON in ihop pancakes, MANCHESTER at BOB's store,HARTFORD at bowtie movie theater. no encounter with police but public did notice my RUGER-SP101 357 MAG in my DESANTI HOLDSTER with clip holder. and my backup 380 ruger LCP.

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KIX View Post
    I'm wondering if he didn't see your hip and left? Is that a possibility?
    As stated, I know he didn't see me, but it is a win either way. Either a well informed and intentioned officer or a bunch of citizens who don't care or just plain approve of OC.

    FOIA request written, we will find out.

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.EastHartford. View Post
    Hi Rich. I had a good birthday and open carry. I O.C. in theses towns while shopping with my wife NEWINGTON in ihop pancakes, MANCHESTER at BOB's store,HARTFORD at bowtie movie theater. no encounter with police but public did notice my RUGER-SP101 357 MAG in my DESANTI HOLDSTER with clip holder. and my backup 380 ruger LCP.
    Great job, I spent most of my day so far on a laptop, so I didn't get around as much as you did.

    Hope you had a good birthday. It is great to be free.

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    Interesting

    That's pretty cool all things considered Rich. The best scenario was he did get called and did know the law and lived within it. That's a huge positive.

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    Regular Member Ctclassic's Avatar
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    Rich and others, thought I'd jump in and share another non-eventful morning. My nephew and I both met for coffee at Henny Penny/ Dunkin' Donuts in Lisbon, and as it turns out, I park in front, he shows up and parks in back (rear enterance), we both walk in as an off-duty Norwich LEO (in uniform) sneeks in between us and we walk torwards the counter together. The LEO was on our strong side and pret-ty sure he noticed...no comment ..nothing. The LEO walked out and we sat down at a booth, right by the door. The show got real good when the "nerdy" kid that works for HP DEFINATELY noticed and started pacing the floor, popping up from behind a chip rack, gaulking over the gondolas etc...all the while, he had his cell phone cluthed tightly in his hand. That being said, a couple minutes later, a State Police cruiser comes whipping into the parking lot, and I thought, that weisel called. LEO cruised up to the drive-thru and out he went. We sat for 45 minutes and had a great time.

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ctclassic View Post
    Rich and others, thought I'd jump in and share another non-eventful morning. My nephew and I both met for coffee at Henny Penny/ Dunkin' Donuts in Lisbon, and as it turns out, I park in front, he shows up and parks in back (rear enterance), we both walk in as an off-duty Norwich LEO (in uniform) sneeks in between us and we walk torwards the counter together. The LEO was on our strong side and pret-ty sure he noticed...no comment ..nothing. The LEO walked out and we sat down at a booth, right by the door. The show got real good when the "nerdy" kid that works for HP DEFINATELY noticed and started pacing the floor, popping up from behind a chip rack, gaulking over the gondolas etc...all the while, he had his cell phone cluthed tightly in his hand. That being said, a couple minutes later, a State Police cruiser comes whipping into the parking lot, and I thought, that weisel called. LEO cruised up to the drive-thru and out he went. We sat for 45 minutes and had a great time.
    Excellent. OC is a non-event, just like it should be. Great story, thanks for sharing.

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    For those that OC constantly, how are your trips to the mall?

    Personally (due to my complete inexperience with OC) I would think that it I walked into the CT Post mall it would not go all that well. Meaning I couldn’t go in, get what I want and leave without incident.

    It probably doesn’t help that my hair is over halfway down my back. I can’t get away with “Maybe he’s an off-duty cop?”

    But when I say, “complete inexperience” I don’t mean that I would look nervous. I’ve carried concealed (Charter Bulldog Pug/S&W 1066/Browning HP Practical) in NYC more times than I can count, even walking up to a large group of foot cops asking for directions somewhere. I don’t mention this to be berated, only to emphasize my calm, cool demeanor. What I meant was that I have assumptions about how a busy day at the mall and someone OC-ing would go.

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Malik View Post
    For those that OC constantly, how are your trips to the mall?
    I don't know of any mall that doesn't have a 'no weapons' policy. OCing in a place that prohibits firearms is a good way to get arrested.

    Quote Originally Posted by http://www.cga.ct.gov/2009/pub/Chap529.htm#Sec29-28.htm
    29-28(e) The issuance of any permit to carry a pistol or revolver does not thereby authorize the possession or carrying of a pistol or revolver in any premises where the possession or carrying of a pistol or revolver is otherwise prohibited by law or is prohibited by the person who owns or exercises control over such premises.
    Quote Originally Posted by http://www.cga.ct.gov/2009/pub/Chap529.htm#Sec29-37.htm
    Sec. 29-37. Penalties. (a) Any person violating any provision of section 29-28 or 29-31 shall be fined not more than five hundred dollars or imprisoned not more than three years or both, and any pistol or revolver found in the possession of any person in violation of any of said provisions shall be forfeited.
    It probably doesn’t help that my hair is over halfway down my back. I can’t get away with “Maybe he’s an off-duty cop?”
    I couldn't offer conflicting experience, my hair is all the way down my back.
    Last edited by Rich B; 06-06-2011 at 12:52 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    I don't know of any mall that doesn't have a 'no weapons' policy.
    Well, that's why I'm here. To learn. Now I know.

    Next time I'm at the CT post I'll look for signs. I've actually never noticed any.

    Rich, if you do FB add me.

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Malik View Post
    Next time I'm at the CT post I'll look for signs. I've actually never noticed any.
    They are not always obvious, but in my experience, every mall has them somewhere. Very often on a board somewhere listing their 'code of conduct' or some other nonsense.

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...t-posted-malls
    Last edited by Rich B; 06-06-2011 at 02:47 PM.

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    yeah Andy My wife pointed it out to me the other day when we went to the movies in Milford. In between the 2 sets of entrance doors on the walls are little posters that specify their code of conduct and they def have a no firearms policy. However I would challenge that any store that has its own outside entrance that doesn't have it posted would be fair game as long as you stay within that store and don't go into the mall proper. A store with its own exterior entrance could be considered not part pf the mall if that entrance doesn't have the same code of conduct posted. Rich, am I wrong on that assumption? I know I OC'd through Dicks sporting goods at the CT post with no issue but I was only inside dicks and didn't go anywhere else in the mall.

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn Mitola View Post
    Rich, am I wrong on that assumption? I know I OC'd through Dicks sporting goods at the CT post with no issue but I was only inside dicks and didn't go anywhere else in the mall.
    It makes sense to me, but like anything else in this state, we will only find out when someone gets arrested and goes to court over it.

    I make a point to stay away from malls and other victim rich zones that forbid law abiding citizens the right to self defense.

    Remember, in this state, if they post 'no guns', you effectively have no permit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    It makes sense to me, but like anything else in this state, we will only find out when someone gets arrested and goes to court over it.

    I make a point to stay away from malls and other victim rich zones that forbid law abiding citizens the right to self defense.

    Remember, in this state, if they post 'no guns', you effectively have no permit.
    Not trying to be a rebel or anything but the only places I don't carry are in a courthouse and a police station or if I'm going to be drinking. If I go someplace like the post office I'll carry concealed. Or now, the movie theater I guess. If I have to go into a school for some reason I'll leave it in the car. In essence breaking one law to observe another. I've always got a good blade on me and the last thing anyone would expect would be that the idiot who brought a knife to a gunfight would be charging the guy with the gun.

    Anyway, if I do indeed spot some idiotic code of conduct by the entrances of the mall that says "no firearms allowed" again, I'll just carry concealed.

    Because it's a safe bet that one of those signs never stopped someone hell bent on carnage.

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Malik View Post
    Not trying to be a rebel or anything

    You are admitting an awful lot of plans to commit felonies using what I assume is your real name and location on a public forum. I would recommend you don't post this material because it could easily be used against you.

    I understand the sentiment and your good intentions, but remember there are many that will read this forum who will not take this information in the same way.

    - Carrying in a post office is a Federal crime.

    § 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities
    Release date: 2004-08-06

    a. Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.
    - A courthouse or where the general assembly meets is a restricted place just like a K-12 school in this state.

    - Carrying in a police department in most cases breaks no laws, unless it is posted otherwise or there is a town ordinance against it.

    - Carrying in a bar or while having a drink is not illegal, but is subject to laws governing being intoxicated while carrying a firearm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    You are admitting an awful lot of plans to commit felonies using what I assume is your real name and location on a public forum. I would recommend you don't post this material because it could easily be used against you.

    I understand the sentiment and your good intentions, but remember there are many that will read this forum who will not take this information in the same way.
    I need to be found doing these things first. If someone here is going to tail me to catch me in commission of any of these things just to tack an arrest under their belt or to instill in themselves feelings of superiority then their lives are much sadder than mine.

    Besides, if someone really wants to find out who any of us are here regardless of screen/user name, it's not going to be all that difficult.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post

    - Carrying in a post office is a Federal crime.
    And the one or two times a year I go into one indeed I am committing a felony. So if someone here wants to find a pic of me and send it to the post office so that they can distribute it to all employees, that's their sad prerogative. They can stick my pic on the wall next to the America's Most Wanted guys. Then on the day I do arrive I can be recognized and the employee can call the cops. Another bad guy off the streets!

    My apologies. I took a 5 hour "nap" and woke up really hungry. When I'm really hungry I get irritable. And when I get irritable my sarcasm knows no bounds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post

    - A courthouse or where the general assembly meets is a restricted place just like a K-12 school in this state.
    Rich, I'm not as dumb as I look. I already said I don't carry in them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post

    - Carrying in a police department in most cases breaks no laws, unless it is posted otherwise or there is a town ordinance against it.
    I don't carry into police stations or troop barracks out of respect. Others can do what they want.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    - Carrying in a bar or while having a drink is not illegal, but is subject to laws governing being intoxicated while carrying a firearm.
    Was aware of this before I read the pamphlet. But carrying openly also opens you up to the owner telling you to leave if he so chooses. So when I go, I carry concealed. If I do feel the need to be sociable I'll have one pint max. Especially if I'm eating. Did just that last Wednesday at Two Boots in Bridgeport. Had the Jambalaya and half of a chipotle chicken pizza.

    If anyone here likes jambalaya it's really very good there. Half off on Wednesdays which means it's pretty much the only time I'll ever have it there. $11 is just too much any other day. In my opinion it's 7.50 max. But $5.50? I can not NOT have it.

    Yeah, okay. All that talk about food and my hunger pangs are stickin' like duct tape. Off to Krauser's for a late nite grinder!!!

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    Malls & Calls

    First malls - Here in Virginia, even the malls that aren't posted have ninja security guards who will make it up as they go along; although I carry everywhere (and usually open), from my experience malls and theaters are the two places it is usually best to conceal.

    As for the Wendy's incident, cops have to respond to every call, even if they know or suspect it is B.S. Much depends on how the dispatcher handles it or passes it on. Excited Caller: "Oh, my God, a guy just walked in here with GUN!" Response from dispatcher ought to be the same if the caller said "Oh my God, a guy just walked in here with a PENCIL!"
    Dispatcher: "OK, so what he is doing with it? What is the problem? Why are you calling?"

    Several years ago I went to a public food festival on the grounds of a church in Richmond; after I went through the line and paid for my food I sat down in the dining area at a picnic table under a tent. Then I see an angry woman almost pulling along a cop and scanning the crowd until she sees me, points me out to the cop and does a quick 180.

    The cop comes up and asks me for my permit, and even though I had one, I frustratedly start giving him a lecture that no permit is needed for open carry (which is the case in Virginia), but he stops me with "I know, I know, but you're OK right?" I look at him in dumbfounded silence for a minute before I mumble "yea," and he says "have a good day", turns around and goes about his business. He was just punching the ticket, and was a bit embarrassed about having to do so.

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverdance View Post
    As for the Wendy's incident, cops have to respond to every call, even if they know or suspect it is B.S. Much depends on how the dispatcher handles it or passes it on. Excited Caller: "Oh, my God, a guy just walked in here with GUN!" Response from dispatcher ought to be the same if the caller said "Oh my God, a guy just walked in here with a PENCIL!"
    Dispatcher: "OK, so what he is doing with it? What is the problem? Why are you calling?"
    Here in Connecticut, I have not yet heard of a case where we know an officer was called on an OCer and just checked up on the situation and left with no contact. If I can document the incident, it would be a great step forward and a good pat on the back for law enforcement in Guilford.

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    OC until it's common and normal

    Wow, that's disturbing. I only get to CT about twice a year, and have undoubtedly been lucky not to have been challenged for open carrying, which I do universally just like at home.

    As long as all you Connecticut OC'ers continue with such fortitude, determination, and courage, the barrier will eventually be breached and guns will be normalized in Connecticut society again, as they are in other states.

  22. #22
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    FOI request sent

    Quote Originally Posted by http://withregardstorights.com/post/2011/06/25/FOI-request-sent-to-Guilford-about-(non)-incident-at-Wendys.aspx

    A FOI request was sent to Guilford regarding the non incident I reported on a short while ago.

    Figure this can go one of two ways:

    1) Either there will be no reports of anyone contacting the police.

    2) There was a report to the police who invesitgated and found no reason to interfere.



    Either way, I consider it a win for rights in Guilford. Either citizens just don't care about people openly carrying firearms, or the police understand the proper way to investigate and don't feel obligated to detain someone just because that person has a firearm on them.

    FOI Request
    Response to be posted shortly.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Guilford's response to FOI request

    Quote Originally Posted by http://withregardstorights.com/post/2011/06/28/Response-received-from-Guilford-(non)-event-FOI-request.aspx

    I have received the response in writing from the Guilford Police Department regarding the (non) event I experienced at the Wendys in Guilford.

    This response confirms to me that nobody in the restaurant that day was alarmed enough or even considered it abnormal enough to report my open carrying to the police officer while he stood maybe 10 feet away from me.

    FOI response
    Looks like it really was a non issue. OC must be getting more normalized.
    Last edited by Rich B; 07-12-2011 at 12:07 PM.

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