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Thread: Debating on OC or not.

  1. #1
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    Debating on OC or not.

    How Friendly to OC is Louisiana. The Main thing I don't want is to be harassed by police. I am in Metairie, I have seen people OC before. I know we are pretty Gun friendly, but still I fear being falsely arrested, or Harassed.

    What do you guys think, or do you have any experience with OC in Jefferson Parish?

  2. #2
    Regular Member 4angrybadgers's Avatar
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    It's hard to generalize a statewide attitude towards OC, since it may vary. I've OCed around the North Shore, which in my experience has been gun-friendly (or at least folks didn't care). There are incidents of harassment of OC/CCers by the NOPD, so while we may say that Louisiana on the whole is OC friendly, there are trouble spots. Never have OCed on the few occasions I've gone to Kenner/Metairie, so I can't help you with that specific area.

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    Red face Jefferson Parrish

    But if you do OC in Jefferson Parrish, you might get a visit from Steven Segal

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    If your going to OC, I'd say be prepared for a hassle. I have never OC'd in that area, so I'm no help either. I'd say know the laws and be prepared to explain yourself if need be. Know your firearm and holster. Know that you are doing nothing wrong. Know that if you resist an officer it will likely only get worse.

    If harassed by officers, only give as much information as needed then shutup. Don't forget these are people too. In my experience if you greet them like a friend and not an enemy, they will treat you much the same way. Of course if they are responding to a MWAG call, they are already on edge, so pay attention to body language. Never ever reach for, near or in the direction of your firearm. If you decide to show your ID(which legally you don't have to do) have the officer reach for it or ask if you can reach for your ID.

    These are the things I've learned from the forum and my experiences.

    Good luck and Carry on.

  5. #5
    Regular Member estcrh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmansu2 View Post
    If you decide to show your ID(which legally you don't have to do)
    If you really want to see what trouble is just follow this advice and "legally" refuse to show your id and see what happens. If you think that you can refuse to show your id when asked by a law enforcement officer and expect to just walk away from the situation think again, while you MAY be legally justified in refusing you will be opening the door to possible severe harassment and even arrest. Unless you looking for trouble comply with any identification requests and if you feel that you have been unjustly asked to show id hire an attorney and deal with the problem through the legal system. There are many self taught legal experts here but if you get arrested they will not be there to give you advice or to bail you out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by estcrh View Post
    If you really want to see what trouble is just follow this advice and "legally" refuse to show your id and see what happens. If you think that you can refuse to show your id when asked by a law enforcement officer and expect to just walk away from the situation think again, while you MAY be legally justified in refusing you will be opening the door to possible severe harassment and even arrest. Unless you looking for trouble comply with any identification requests and if you feel that you have been unjustly asked to show id hire an attorney and deal with the problem through the legal system.
    All we can do here is give you information... you make the decision on how to use it... According to the law (CCRP 215.1) there are certain requirements for identifying yourself. It's basically Terry v Ohio codified. Do NOT walk away until you have first asked "am I free to leave" and then only when the officer says "yes".

    rumansu2 has offered some usefull information in a concise format. If you have anymore specific questions, please ask away.

    I'm from Jefferson Parish originally and still have family there. I condsider the JPSO to be the MOST willingly ignorant of OC law next to the NOPD. That is from my experience. So... if you pick that battle then be prepared.

    Quote Originally Posted by estcrh View Post
    There are many self taught legal experts here but if you get arrested they will not be there to give you advice or to bail you out.
    NO!! This type of comment shows a lack of maturity. There are not ENOUGH "self taught legal experts here"... Let us know if we can help you teach yourself. We ALL have alot to learn.
    Last edited by georg jetson; 06-07-2011 at 08:55 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by estcrh View Post
    If you really want to see what trouble is just follow this advice and "legally" refuse to show your id and see what happens. If you think that you can refuse to show your id when asked by a law enforcement officer and expect to just walk away from the situation think again, while you MAY be legally justified in refusing you will be opening the door to possible severe harassment and even arrest. Unless you looking for trouble comply with any identification requests and if you feel that you have been unjustly asked to show id hire an attorney and deal with the problem through the legal system. There are many self taught legal experts here but if you get arrested they will not be there to give you advice or to bail you out.
    I should have led with, "I am not a legal expert in anyway." Like I said though, these are things I have learned here on the forum and through personal experience. I have never been stopped nor asked for ID while carrying. I more than likely would give ID because I have nothing to hide but would likely be a little perturbed by the request. I just wanted to give the OP a broad spectrum of what to expect if stopped.

    Some LEOs will just give you a nod and assume your a LEO too. I personally have had lunch with a trooper staring me down and I just ignored it. Went on about my lunch and so did he. Only confrontation I had was with a "deli" owner who asked me not to carry in his restaurant because "he had it covered". I agreed not to carry in his restaurant and haven't been back since.

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by estcrh View Post
    if you feel that you have been unjustly asked to show id hire an attorney and deal with the problem through the legal system.
    Unjustly asked to show id? A cop can ask anything he wants. He can ask you to do the macarana dance. It's up to you to do it. Refusing a request is not a big deal. Now if a LEO unjustly DEMANDS your ID you may have a compaint to file, but you can't go get an attorney and cry, "THIS COP ASKED ME IF HE COULD SEE MY ID!!! THIS IS SO UNFAIR." Well if you gave it up you're on your own. Maybe that's what you meant, but the two are very different things and this is how you had written. "Unjustly asked"

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    Regular Member Outdoorsman1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by estcrh View Post
    If you really want to see what trouble is just follow this advice and "legally" refuse to show your id and see what happens. If you think that you can refuse to show your id when asked by a law enforcement officer and expect to just walk away from the situation think again, while you MAY be legally justified in refusing you will be opening the door to possible severe harassment and even arrest. Unless you looking for trouble comply with any identification requests and if you feel that you have been unjustly asked to show id hire an attorney and deal with the problem through the legal system. There are many self taught legal experts here but if you get arrested they will not be there to give you advice or to bail you out.
    It is amazing to me how attitudes and feelings differ in different parts of the country.... or maybe it is not geographical just personal opinions about how important constitutional and legal rights really are. Let me be clear in saying that not long ago I also thought that allowing LEO to infringe on my rights was ok. I now feel totally opposite. I will also agree that the way you approach and your attitude in dealing with a LEO encounter is very important and will have a bearing on the results. I advocate friendly, polite, but firm in knowing your rights and maintaining that they not be abused.

    All this is from experiance. I have declined an LEO request for identification more than once without being arrested or hassled more because of it...

    Maybe you should all move to Wisconsin....(Just Kidding)....

    Outdoorsman1

    Nuff said.....

    Outdoorsman1

    Disclaimer: I will also say that I am well aware that laws are different from state to state so what is legal (acceptable) in Wisconsin might not be in another state.
    Last edited by Outdoorsman1; 06-07-2011 at 10:05 AM. Reason: Add Disclaimer
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmansu2 View Post
    I should have led with, "I am not a legal expert in anyway."
    Not really... private citizens create NO liability for themselves by voicing their opinion on legal matters. In fact, I think you are becoming a legal expert pertaining to ocing. We should ALL be striving to attain expert status in as many facets of the law as possible.

    It is incumbent upon each of us to verify fact in ALL cases.
    Last edited by georg jetson; 06-07-2011 at 10:03 AM.

  11. #11
    Regular Member estcrh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by georg jetson View Post
    .



    NO!! This type of comment shows a lack of maturity. There are not ENOUGH "self taught legal experts here"... Let us know if we can help you teach yourself. We ALL have alot to learn.
    Your amateur legal advise will eventually get someone arrested or worse (maybe thats what you want?). Of course a more mature and EXPERIENCED person would realize this.
    Last edited by estcrh; 06-08-2011 at 06:17 PM.

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    Regular Member 4angrybadgers's Avatar
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    Oh put a sock in it, estcrh. You're giving advice just as much as georg or anyone else on here. Only difference is, georg has actually read the law, while you're the lone voice always advising everyone to "roll over and take whatever the cop throws at you without the slightest bit of POLITE refusal" regardless of what is actually required by law.

    If you can't see how someone can politely refuse a cop's illegal demand, then you really need to do some research on the law and not your own mistaken ideas.

    Anyone reading any advice on any forum should do their own research before acting on it. It's not rocket science!

  13. #13
    Regular Member estcrh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Composer_1777 View Post
    How Friendly to OC is Louisiana. The Main thing I don't want is to be harassed by police. I am in Metairie, I have seen people OC before. I know we are pretty Gun friendly, but still I fear being falsely arrested, or Harassed.

    What do you guys think, or do you have any experience with OC in Jefferson Parish?
    Composer, you stated that
    THE MAIN THING IS THAT I DONT WANT TO BE HARASSED BY POLICE.
    In order to completely eliminate that from happening you will have to get a concealed permit. ANYONE open carrying can be a target for "harassment". Harassment can come in the form of a citizen seeing you with a gun and calling the police and reporting you or a law enforcement officer can on his own stop and question you. Leaving all questions of legality aside my advice to you would be the best advice to keep from escalating a situation. If you are stopped and questioned by any law enforcement official and asked to produce identification you can be asking for severe problems by refusing to comply. I am not saying that you LEGALLY have to show id, I am saying that that would be the best course to take in order to stop any harassment as soon as possible assuming you can legally own a gun in the first place and do not have any warrants etc.

    Whether you do or do not legally need to show identification is a completely separate question and anyone here who states otherwise was not throughly reading your concerns and addressing you in a manner which would help you AVOID being further harassment and or ARREST. La police and law enforcement officials are notorious for IGNORING or not knowing the current regulations on open carry statutes and the same goes for civil rights violations. To REFUSE a request or demand (however you may say it) can cause you further extended contact with the officer which from what I was reading from your statement you wished to avoid.

    Maybe people here should try to READ what the original poster asks in their post and tailor their responses to that.
    Last edited by estcrh; 06-08-2011 at 06:20 PM.

  14. #14
    Regular Member estcrh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4angrybadgers View Post
    You're giving advice just as much as georg or anyone else on here.
    Why dont you shut your mouth hole and try READING what the original poster was asking in his post. The difference between my advice and the self taught legal experts which dwell here is that I gave a response based on the concerns of the original poster. I was not attempting to make him the next open carry civil rights test case as some of you seem to be.

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    Regular Member 4angrybadgers's Avatar
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    Composer, contrary to the ill-informed "advice" posted, a concealed handgun permit will not free you from police harassment. If someone calls in a MWAG because you're carrying openly, at a minimum the cops are probably going to stop you and harass you until you produce a CHP. Even then, it's a CONCEALED handgun permit, which by its very definition has nothing to do with open carry, and there's no reason to think that a cop will let you go merely because you have a concealed handgun permit while you are openly carrying.

    Basically, if a cop wants to harass you, you can't really avoid it. Your best bet is to be polite, and politely refuse to consent to any unlawful orders with something along the lines of "I do not consent but I will not resist". If you do not consent to an illegal search, then you have recourse afterwards. If you just meekly follow every unlawful order without any protest, then you don't have legal recourse afterwards, because you consented to the illegal search(es)!

    Quote Originally Posted by estcrh View Post
    Why dont you shut your mouth hole and try READING what the original poster was asking in his post. The difference between my advice and the self taught legal experts which dwell here is that I gave a response based on the concerns of the original poster. I was not attempting to make him the next open carry civil rights test case as some of you seem to be.
    No, the difference is that the others are basing their advice on state law and case law, whereas you base your advice solely on your own notions.

    I also find it laughable that you seem to think that others who recommend a course of action are "making" the OP into a civil rights test case. If I were the OP, I'd be extremely insulted at your assumption of my blind obedience to anyone's advice...

    Frankly, the fact that this forum lets folks like you spew broad claims without a shred of a citation to back it up, with ad hom attacks left and right, is troubling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4angrybadgers View Post
    Frankly, the fact that this forum lets folks like you spew broad claims without a shred of a citation to back it up, with ad hom attacks left and right, is troubling.
    Such is the nature of internet forums, even those who in person will not hold an argument will become bold and highly insulting. Its easy to be vicious with those one doesn't know nor has likelihood of knowing. Its hard to find forums with enough moderators to take care of such problems.

  17. #17
    Regular Member estcrh's Avatar
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    I obviously meant that to avoid being harassed while armed in La. you would need to have your weapon CONCEALED and have a concealed permit, no were did I state that having a open weapon and a concealed permit would keep you from being harassed. If you can not comprehend simple statements you should not be giving advise to ANYONE.

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    If you don't desire to be hassled by law enforcement in regards to producing ID.... do what I do and NOT carry any.
    My driving license stays in the car, I've never had to worry about finding my wallet, or forgetting to put it in my pants before work.

    If, for some reason I do foresee a need to produce ID, such as when withdrawing money inside at a bank (a rare occasion), I'll be sure to include my Passport Card.

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    Quote Originally Posted by estcrh View Post
    I obviously meant that to avoid being harassed while armed in La. you would need to have your weapon CONCEALED and have a concealed permit, no were did I state that having a open weapon and a concealed permit would keep you from being harassed. If you can not comprehend simple statements you should not be giving advise to ANYONE.
    LOL, I call BS. You have countless posts on here advising folks to open carry with a concealed permit.


  20. #20
    Regular Member estcrh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ostrch View Post
    LOL, I call BS. You have countless posts on here advising folks to open carry with a concealed permit.

    To cowardly to even use your real name.

  21. #21
    Regular Member estcrh's Avatar
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    So what do you open carry cowboys do when you come across a gun free school zone? Do you enter knowing that its your Constitutional right to go were ever you want with your gun out in the open? No, I forgot, you just DRIVE to nice safe places were you can walk around with your gun showing and run back to your computer to report on how brave you were that day. Oh I open carried at Wal Mart today..look at what I can do!!!!

    Lets see you do that in my neighborhood without you ID you big talk do nothings. You just use this forum to vent your anti government agenda, while some people actually NEED to carry a firearm to keep from becoming the next VICTIM.
    There is NO LEGAL WAY to enter a gun free school zone without a concealed permit so what do you brave cowboys do when you come to one, either break the law or run off, one or the other if you do not have a concealed permit.

  22. #22
    Regular Member ostrch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by estcrh View Post
    I obviously meant that to avoid being harassed while armed in La. you would need to have your weapon CONCEALED and have a concealed permit, no were did I state that having a open weapon and a concealed permit would keep you from being harassed. If you can not comprehend simple statements you should not be giving advise to ANYONE.
    Quote Originally Posted by estcrh View Post
    Just my personal opinion based on my experience. if you can get your concealed permit then it is a good idea to have it on you even if you plan on open carrying all the time.
    ................

  23. #23
    Regular Member barf's Avatar
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    Cool

    OP, my advice for OC-ing in Jefferson Parish is to go about your business as you would normally do. Know the laws relevant to the area and situation where you will be. Preparation, knowledge and self-confidence in knowing what you're doing is legal are all key. Always carry a small voice recorder and have it on or at the ready to document anything that shouldn't happen to a law-abiding citizen and be able & willing to follow-up with your local government if you are wronged. I personally don't carry a driver's license when I OC because I'm not driving when I do. If asked by LEO for personal identification, I will state my name and address as required by law - I certainly don't want to impede any investigation they may be conducting.

    Bottom line - know the law and be a responsible citizen.

    Barf out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by estcrh View Post
    To cowardly to even use your real name.
    Funny, but Anywho and Spokeo neither one return any listings for anyone named "estcrh" in Louisiana.

    Are you the pot, or the kettle?

  25. #25
    Regular Member estcrh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    Funny, but Anywho and Spokeo neither one return any listings for anyone named "estcrh" in Louisiana.

    Are you the pot, or the kettle?
    His real FORUM name you moron, its obvious he is a forum member who picked a NEW name similar to mine.

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