SB93 for dummies

cleveland said:

Re outdoorsman's question, because I want to be sure I understand this too:

SB93 covers the right to have a loaded gun in a vehicle, but not the right to shoot the attacker because current law prohibits discharging a firearm inside of a vehicle. Discharging a firearm inside of a vehicle is where the castle doctrine comes in.

Did I get that right?

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McX said:

i heard carry in the courthouse with written permission from the judge? if that is so i'm going to go for a historic carry moment someday in the future. that one i'll have to get a pic on!

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Captain Nemo said:

Paul:

I understand your response but it still doesn't answer what appears to be a conflicting statement in the base bill.


'Possession in the area within 1,000 feet of school grounds is not prohibited in the bill". This is from page 2 of the refernce document.

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apjonas said:

'Senate Substitute Amendment 1 creates a process to obtain an optional license to carry a
concealed weapon. The substitute amendment specifies that the optional license does not convey any
additional rights under Wisconsin state law to carry a firearm that is concealed than the rights an
individual who does not have a license has to carry a firearm that is concealed except that a person who
obtains a license may possess a firearm in the part of a school zone that is not in or on the grounds of a
school."

A non-licensee = A licensee EXCEPT within 1000' of a school (= school zone - grounds). The penalty is the same for everybody, it's just that a licensee is exempt (from Federal GFSZ as well). This is within Wisconsin, carrying abilities out-of-state may significantly increase for a licensee, depending upon the state.

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cleveland said:

I may be getting ahead of things here, but how does the permit work with other states? At what point do we learn what states will and will not honor our permit (provided a permit is what passes)? I know AFTER the bill passes, but does anyone know the next step and how it works?

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cleveland said:

I may be getting ahead of things here, but how does the permit work with other states? At what point do we learn what states will and will not honor our permit (provided a permit is what passes)? I know AFTER the bill passes, but does anyone know the next step and how it works?

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paul@paul-fisher.com said:

No way to know as of yet. As it sits, only states that recognize permits that only require background checks. Others require fingerprints, training, and some (I believe) live fire.

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941.237 is the prohibition on carrying where alcohol is sold. Look at SSA1 Section 60. It says "941.237 of the statutes is repealed." It doesn't say anything about "unless open carrying". Same with 167.31. It is re-written and doesn't say anything about a permit. You are correct that you cannot carry open or concealed within 1000' of a school without a permit but with a permit you can do either.

941.235 is the Wisconsin government building restriction: SSA1 section 59 says: "941.235 of the statutes is repealed." Once again, nothing saying 'unless concealed'. SSA1 then goes on and adds new 941.232 Section 58 which says: "(1) In this section:
(a) “Carry” means to go armed with.
(b) “Weapon” means a handgun, an electric weapon, a knife other than a
switchblade knife under s. 941.24, or a billy club.
(2) (a) Except as provided in par. (b), any person other than a law enforcement
officer who knowingly carries a weapon or a firearm that is not a weapon into any
of the following places is guilty of a Class C misdemeanor:
1. Any portion of a building that is a police station, sheriff ’s office, or state
patrol station.
2. A prison, jail, house of correction, or secured correctional facility.
3. A county, state, or federal courthouse.
4. A place beyond a security checkpoint in an airport.
(b) The prohibitions under par. (a) do not apply to any of the following:
1. A weapon in a vehicle driven or parked in a parking facility located in a
building that is used as, or any portion of which is used as, a location under par. (a).
2. A weapon in a courthouse if a judge is carrying the weapon or if another
individual, whom a judge has permitted in writing to carry a weapon, is carrying the
weapon.
3. A weapon in a courthouse if a district attorney, or an assistant district
attorney, is carrying the weapon.
(3) (a) Except as provided in par. (b), an employer may prohibit an employee
from carrying a concealed weapon or a particular type of concealed weapon in the course of the employee’s employment or during any part of the course of the
employee’s employment.
(b) An employer may not prohibit an employee, as a condition of employment,
from carrying a concealed weapon, a particular type of concealed weapon, or
ammunition or from storing a weapon, a particular type of weapon, or ammunition
in the employee’s own motor vehicle, regardless of whether the motor vehicle is used
in the course of employment or whether the motor vehicle is driven or parked on
property used by the employer.
(c) An employer that does not prohibit one or more employees from carrying a
concealed weapon under par. (a) is immune from any liability arising from its
decision." So, it goes from a blanket 'no government building' to specific buildings or types of building. So, we no longer need permission from the chief of police or sheriff to go to the bathroom in a government owned gazebo while armed, open or concealed.

Once again, no wording saying 'concealed only' or 'unless concealed'.

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175.60(2)(c). It says "This section does not limit an individual’s right to carry a firearm that is not
concealed. Except as provided in s. 948.605 (2) (b) 1r., the optional license issued
under this section conveys no additional rights under Wisconsin state law to carry
a firearm that is concealed than an individual who does not have a license issued
under this section has to carry a firearm that is concealed." which says that the license doesn't give any more rights except for what is in 948.605(2) which says "(a) Any individual who knowingly possesses a firearm at a place
that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone in or
on the grounds of a school is guilty of a Class I felony. Any individual who knowingly
possesses a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to
believe, is within 1,000 feet of the grounds of a school is subject to a Class B forfeiture.
SECTION 81. 948.605 (2) (b) (intro.) of the statutes is amended to read:
948.605 (2) (b) (intro.) Paragraph (a) does not apply to the possession of a
firearm by any of the following: (some other stuff, not related to license) 1r. Except if the individual is in or on the grounds of a school, a licensee, as
defined in s. 175.60 (1) (d), or an out−of−state licensee, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (g)."

So.... I contend that the only additional 'right' a WI permit gives us is carrying in the area from 1000' from the school property up to the property line. I can open or conceal with or without a permit. No part of it says you can only oc in these places and also it doesn't say I can only cc in certain places.

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paul@paul-fisher.com said:

According to this http://legis.wisconsin.gov/insession/senate/toc.htm#calendar695719 no action on SB93 on Wednesday either.

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apjonas said:

A non-licensee = A licensee EXCEPT within 1000' of a school (= school zone - grounds). The penalty is the same for everybody, it's just that a licensee is exempt (from Federal GFSZ as well). This is within Wisconsin, carrying abilities out-of-state may significantly increase for a licensee, depending upon the state.

What is missing from this statement or what is ambiguous? Have I missed something?

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