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Thread: Castle Doctrine amendments

  1. #1
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Castle Doctrine amendments


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    Regular Member cleveland's Avatar
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    Where's the "for dummy's" version?! LOL!

  3. #3
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cleveland View Post
    Where's the "for dummy's" version?! LOL!
    Unfortunately not written yet

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    Regular Member CalicoJack10's Avatar
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    Looks to me like they are trying to say that if someone is in the process of breaking in to your home, or unless they are in the process of actually commiting a criminal act, then you can't defend yourself/home/family.

    The other basically adds your car and place of business to the bill.
    Last edited by CalicoJack10; 06-06-2011 at 03:52 PM.
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  5. #5
    Regular Member cleveland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    Unfortunately not written yet
    Dummy's standing by.

  6. #6
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cleveland View Post
    Dummy's standing by.
    I'm standing with you!!

  7. #7
    Regular Member davegran's Avatar
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    Post AB69 revealed....

    Whoops! I am adding the amendments to AB69 to make them more understandable but so far I have only completed the first one.
    Last edited by davegran; 06-06-2011 at 05:02 PM.
    Dave
    45ACP-For when you care enough to send the very best-
    Fight for "Stand Your Ground " legislation!

    WI DA Gerald R. Fox:
    "These so-called 'public safety' laws only put decent law-abiding citizens at a dangerous disadvantage when it comes to their personal safety, and I for one am glad that this decades-long era of defective thinking on gun issues is over..."

    Remember: Don't make old People mad. We don't like being old in the first place, so it doesn't take much to piss us off.

  8. #8
    McX
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    i like that place of business thing, car is even sweeter/

  9. #9
    Regular Member davegran's Avatar
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    Post AB69 with amendments

    O.K., I was in town for a while, but I got back a few hours ago and finished updating AB69 with the two proposed amendments. Attachment 5971
    Last edited by davegran; 06-06-2011 at 11:41 PM.
    Dave
    45ACP-For when you care enough to send the very best-
    Fight for "Stand Your Ground " legislation!

    WI DA Gerald R. Fox:
    "These so-called 'public safety' laws only put decent law-abiding citizens at a dangerous disadvantage when it comes to their personal safety, and I for one am glad that this decades-long era of defective thinking on gun issues is over..."

    Remember: Don't make old People mad. We don't like being old in the first place, so it doesn't take much to piss us off.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Da Po-lock's Avatar
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    Now I see 2 amendments introduced 6/8.

    The executive meeting for yesterday 6/9 was cancelled.

    The assembly is adjourned and NOTHING is scheduled for upcoming meetings.
    Any one of you lily livered, flea bitten, bow legged varmints care to slap leather with me?

    A.S.N.F.
    A Son NEVER Forgets

  11. #11
    Regular Member davegran's Avatar
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    Post This bill still needs some work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Da Po-lock View Post
    Now I see 2 amendments introduced 6/8.

    The executive meeting for yesterday 6/9 was cancelled.

    The assembly is adjourned and NOTHING is scheduled for upcoming meetings.
    I believe that what Representative Kaufert published on 6-7 and 6-8 is just the language of his amendments incorporated into the proposed bill so his changes are easier to understand.

    If I understand AB69 correctly, it sounds like you can defend yourself and others in your home, car, and place of business IF YOU ARE IN THEM WHEN THE BAD GUY BREAKS IN; but if you say, walk up to your front door, it's been jimmied, and you can see or hear someone raping your wife inside the house, you can't go in with your gun and make him stop hurting her without the possibility of you being prosecuted and the bad guy suing you later... that does not sound like the bill we want. Page 3, lines 7 through 11,
    (a) The person against whom the force was used was in the process of
    unlawfully and forcibly entering the actor’s dwelling, motor vehicle, or place of
    business, the actor was on his or her property or present in the dwelling, motor
    vehicle, or place of business, and the actor knew or had reason to believe that an
    unlawful and forcible entry was occurring.
    we should strike out
    the actor was on his or her property or present in the dwelling, motor vehicle, or place of business, and
    and then add some language as to the timing of the crime so it then reads
    (a) The person against whom the force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcibly entering the actor’s dwelling, motor vehicle, or place of business, OR HAD ALREADY UNLAWFULLY AND FORCIBLY ENTERED THE ACTOR'S DWELLING, MOTOR VEHICLE, OR PLACE OF BUSINESS, and the actor knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry was occurring OR HAD OCCURRED.
    I believe that this would be closer to enabling us to protect our loved ones no matter what the present circumstances and still protect us against liability.
    Dave
    45ACP-For when you care enough to send the very best-
    Fight for "Stand Your Ground " legislation!

    WI DA Gerald R. Fox:
    "These so-called 'public safety' laws only put decent law-abiding citizens at a dangerous disadvantage when it comes to their personal safety, and I for one am glad that this decades-long era of defective thinking on gun issues is over..."

    Remember: Don't make old People mad. We don't like being old in the first place, so it doesn't take much to piss us off.

  12. #12
    Regular Member AaronS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davegran View Post
    if you say, walk up to your front door, it's been jimmied, and you can see or hear someone raping your wife inside the house, you can't go in with your gun and make him stop hurting her without the possibility of you being prosecuted and the bad guy suing you later...
    If I came home and found this happening, I can only assure you that the bad man would never sue anyone, ever...
    I could have an issue with his family though... Oh, and in Milwaukee, I would expect to be prosecuted to the full extent of Flynns' wants...

  13. #13
    Regular Member Da Po-lock's Avatar
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    Thankfully my wife would surely have put some holes in them before it ever got that far.
    Any one of you lily livered, flea bitten, bow legged varmints care to slap leather with me?

    A.S.N.F.
    A Son NEVER Forgets

  14. #14
    Regular Member wild boar's Avatar
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    On your six

    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    I'm standing with you!!
    All we can do is stand by until the buzzer goes off, then it's soup.
    The purpose of fighting is to win,
    there is no victory in defense.
    The sword is more important than the shield,
    and skill is more important than either.
    The final weapon is the brain,
    all else is supplemental.

  15. #15
    Regular Member wild boar's Avatar
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    Out of sight, out of mind!

    Quote Originally Posted by AaronS View Post
    If I came home and found this happening, I can only assure you that the bad man would never sue anyone, ever...
    I could have an issue with his family though... Oh, and in Milwaukee, I would expect to be prosecuted to the full extent of Flynns' wants...
    Officer, he ran that way............clean out of sight, ............oh ya, and he took some of my bullets.............. Yes, I will sigh a complaint.
    Last edited by wild boar; 06-13-2011 at 10:35 AM.
    The purpose of fighting is to win,
    there is no victory in defense.
    The sword is more important than the shield,
    and skill is more important than either.
    The final weapon is the brain,
    all else is supplemental.

  16. #16
    Regular Member davegran's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Please pitch in

    I just sent my concerns to Rep. Kaufert, the bill's author:

    Dear Representative Kaufert,
    First of all, I am not one of your constituents, but I am very interested in being able to legally defend myself and my family under the Constitution of Wisconsin and I really appreciate the thoughtful work you've put in on AB69. As we continue to Open Carry and eventually start to Conceal Carry, our law-abiding citizens need some protection from frivolous law suits by criminals or their families. The news stories of law breakers profiting in court from their crimes need to be absent in Wisconsin, so thank you for your hard work on this important bill.

    I was trying to understand your intent with some of the bill's language and hoped you could comment.
    If I understand AB69 correctly, it sounds like you can defend yourself and others in your home, car, and place of business IF YOU ARE PRESENTLY IN THEM WHEN THE BAD GUY BREAKS IN; but if you say, walk up to your front door, it's been smashed in, and you can see or hear someone attacking your wife inside the house, you can't go in with your gun and make him stop hurting her without the possibility of your being prosecuted and the bad guy or his family suing you later... please correct my interpretation if it is in error.

    Here is my solution:
    895.62 (2)
    "(a) The person against whom the force was used was in the process of
    unlawfully and forcibly entering the actor’s dwelling, motor vehicle, or place of
    business, the actor was on his or her property or present in the dwelling, motor
    vehicle, or place of business, and the actor knew or had reason to believe that an
    unlawful and forcible entry was occurring"


    If we struck out "the actor was on his or her property or present in the dwelling, motor vehicle, or place of business, and"

    and then added some language as to the timing of the crime (Following in CAPS) so it then reads "(a) The person against whom the force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcibly entering the actor’s dwelling, motor vehicle, or place of business, OR HAD ALREADY UNLAWFULLY AND FORCIBLY ENTERED THE ACTOR'S DWELLING, MOTOR VEHICLE, OR PLACE OF BUSINESS, and the actor knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry was occurring OR HAD OCCURRED"

    I believe that this change would enable us to protect our loved ones no matter if we were present during the break in or had arrived just after it happened, because the bill would still protect us against liability.

    Many of Wisconsin's law-abiding citizens would also like to see a "stand your ground" section added to AB69 much like Florida's Statute Section 776.013
    "(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."

    Thank you for taking the time to understand my concerns; I sincerely hope this bill soon becomes law.
    I hope he takes a good look at this even though I am not one of his constituents; it would be great to get both Concealed Carry and Stand Your Ground this year! It would probably help to convince him about stand your ground (SYG) if he got some more comments along these lines.... Please pitch in.
    Dave
    45ACP-For when you care enough to send the very best-
    Fight for "Stand Your Ground " legislation!

    WI DA Gerald R. Fox:
    "These so-called 'public safety' laws only put decent law-abiding citizens at a dangerous disadvantage when it comes to their personal safety, and I for one am glad that this decades-long era of defective thinking on gun issues is over..."

    Remember: Don't make old People mad. We don't like being old in the first place, so it doesn't take much to piss us off.

  17. #17
    Regular Member littlewolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by da po-lock View Post
    thankfully my wife would surely have put some holes in them before it ever got that far.
    dead men tell no tales !
    Owner Little Wolf Firearms , US ARMY RETIRED 101st Airborne & 84th DIV TRNG Small arms instructor.
    Remember , Gun Control is " USING BOTH HANDS!"

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    Regular Member BROKENSPROKET's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davegran View Post
    I just sent my concerns to Rep. Kaufert, the bill's author:

    I hope he takes a good look at this even though I am not one of his constituents; it would be great to get both Concealed Carry and Stand Your Ground this year! It would probably help to convince him about stand your ground (SYG) if he got some more comments along these lines.... Please pitch in.
    He, as the author, pulled AB69 from the Assembly Committee on Judiciary and Ethics Executive Session's agenda on June 9, 2011 so that the bill could be worked on more before it comes before the committee. Hopefully all the changes we want are being worked in as a trade-off for not getting Constitutional Carry.
    Last edited by BROKENSPROKET; 06-12-2011 at 04:16 AM.

  19. #19
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Da Po-lock
    Thankfully my wife would surely have put some holes in them before it ever got that far.
    Ain't it great to have a partner, rather than someone you have to worry about protecting?

  20. #20
    Regular Member BROKENSPROKET's Avatar
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    OR?

    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    Ain't it great to have a partner, rather than someone you have to worry about protecting yourself from?

  21. #21
    McX
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    something i noticed; that's all well and fine, castle doctrine to home, work, and car. the rest of the time we'll be still under; be innocent of instigation, and retreat? that ends up- being alot of places!

  22. #22
    Regular Member davegran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McX View Post
    something i noticed; that's all well and fine, castle doctrine to home, work, and car. the rest of the time we'll be still under; be innocent of instigation, and retreat? that ends up- being alot of places!
    That's why I suggested a "Stand Your Ground" addition to Rep. Kaufert's bill in my letter to him, or maybe you couldn't read my post because you have me on ignore.... I also suggested that more citizens than just me should write him in support of SYG so he knows there is a lot of support for it.
    Dave
    45ACP-For when you care enough to send the very best-
    Fight for "Stand Your Ground " legislation!

    WI DA Gerald R. Fox:
    "These so-called 'public safety' laws only put decent law-abiding citizens at a dangerous disadvantage when it comes to their personal safety, and I for one am glad that this decades-long era of defective thinking on gun issues is over..."

    Remember: Don't make old People mad. We don't like being old in the first place, so it doesn't take much to piss us off.

  23. #23
    McX
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    maybe you couldn't read my post because you have me on ignore

    no, never, sometimes i get just enough time to skim, other times i can read in depth. i go to events to get more details, and be brought up to speed on things. it's lonely out here on the edge of the carry world.

  24. #24
    Regular Member davegran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McX View Post
    maybe you couldn't read my post because you have me on ignore

    no, never, sometimes i get just enough time to skim, other times i can read in depth. i go to events to get more details, and be brought up to speed on things. it's lonely out here on the edge of the carry world.
    O.K. you're forgiven this time; I'll give you a big wet kiss the next time I see you (just testing to see if you're skimming....).
    Dave
    45ACP-For when you care enough to send the very best-
    Fight for "Stand Your Ground " legislation!

    WI DA Gerald R. Fox:
    "These so-called 'public safety' laws only put decent law-abiding citizens at a dangerous disadvantage when it comes to their personal safety, and I for one am glad that this decades-long era of defective thinking on gun issues is over..."

    Remember: Don't make old People mad. We don't like being old in the first place, so it doesn't take much to piss us off.

  25. #25
    McX
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by davegran View Post
    O.K. you're forgiven this time; I'll give you a big wet kiss the next time I see you (just testing to see if you're skimming....).
    Homey dont play that. i will however accept a nice 1911 or cheeseburger.

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