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Castle Doctrine amendments

CalicoJack10

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2010
Messages
559
Location
Arbor Vitae
Looks to me like they are trying to say that if someone is in the process of breaking in to your home, or unless they are in the process of actually commiting a criminal act, then you can't defend yourself/home/family.

The other basically adds your car and place of business to the bill.
 
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Da Po-lock

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2011
Messages
131
Location
Green Bay, WI
Now I see 2 amendments introduced 6/8.

The executive meeting for yesterday 6/9 was cancelled.

The assembly is adjourned and NOTHING is scheduled for upcoming meetings.
 

davegran

Regular Member
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
1,563
Location
Cassville Area -Twelve Miles From Anything, Wiscon
This bill still needs some work.

Now I see 2 amendments introduced 6/8.

The executive meeting for yesterday 6/9 was cancelled.

The assembly is adjourned and NOTHING is scheduled for upcoming meetings.
I believe that what Representative Kaufert published on 6-7 and 6-8 is just the language of his amendments incorporated into the proposed bill so his changes are easier to understand.

If I understand AB69 correctly, it sounds like you can defend yourself and others in your home, car, and place of business IF YOU ARE IN THEM WHEN THE BAD GUY BREAKS IN; but if you say, walk up to your front door, it's been jimmied, and you can see or hear someone raping your wife inside the house, you can't go in with your gun and make him stop hurting her without the possibility of you being prosecuted and the bad guy suing you later... that does not sound like the bill we want. Page 3, lines 7 through 11,
(a) The person against whom the force was used was in the process of
unlawfully and forcibly entering the actor’s dwelling, motor vehicle, or place of
business, the actor was on his or her property or present in the dwelling, motor
vehicle, or place of business, and the actor knew or had reason to believe that an
unlawful and forcible entry was occurring.
we should strike out
the actor was on his or her property or present in the dwelling, motor vehicle, or place of business, and
and then add some language as to the timing of the crime so it then reads
(a) The person against whom the force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcibly entering the actor’s dwelling, motor vehicle, or place of business, OR HAD ALREADY UNLAWFULLY AND FORCIBLY ENTERED THE ACTOR'S DWELLING, MOTOR VEHICLE, OR PLACE OF BUSINESS, and the actor knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry was occurring OR HAD OCCURRED.
I believe that this would be closer to enabling us to protect our loved ones no matter what the present circumstances and still protect us against liability.
 

AaronS

Regular Member
Joined
May 2, 2009
Messages
1,497
Location
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
if you say, walk up to your front door, it's been jimmied, and you can see or hear someone raping your wife inside the house, you can't go in with your gun and make him stop hurting her without the possibility of you being prosecuted and the bad guy suing you later...

If I came home and found this happening, I can only assure you that the bad man would never sue anyone, ever...
I could have an issue with his family though... Oh, and in Milwaukee, I would expect to be prosecuted to the full extent of Flynns' wants...
 

wild boar

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2011
Messages
445
Location
wisconsin
Out of sight, out of mind!

If I came home and found this happening, I can only assure you that the bad man would never sue anyone, ever...
I could have an issue with his family though... Oh, and in Milwaukee, I would expect to be prosecuted to the full extent of Flynns' wants...

Officer, he ran that way............clean out of sight, ............oh ya, and he took some of my bullets.............. Yes, I will sigh a complaint.
 
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davegran

Regular Member
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
1,563
Location
Cassville Area -Twelve Miles From Anything, Wiscon
Please pitch in

I just sent my concerns to Rep. Kaufert, the bill's author:

Dear Representative Kaufert,
First of all, I am not one of your constituents, but I am very interested in being able to legally defend myself and my family under the Constitution of Wisconsin and I really appreciate the thoughtful work you've put in on AB69. As we continue to Open Carry and eventually start to Conceal Carry, our law-abiding citizens need some protection from frivolous law suits by criminals or their families. The news stories of law breakers profiting in court from their crimes need to be absent in Wisconsin, so thank you for your hard work on this important bill.

I was trying to understand your intent with some of the bill's language and hoped you could comment.
If I understand AB69 correctly, it sounds like you can defend yourself and others in your home, car, and place of business IF YOU ARE PRESENTLY IN THEM WHEN THE BAD GUY BREAKS IN; but if you say, walk up to your front door, it's been smashed in, and you can see or hear someone attacking your wife inside the house, you can't go in with your gun and make him stop hurting her without the possibility of your being prosecuted and the bad guy or his family suing you later... please correct my interpretation if it is in error.

Here is my solution:
895.62 (2)
[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]"(a) The person against whom the force was used was in the process of
unlawfully and forcibly entering the actor’s dwelling, motor vehicle, or place of
business, the actor was on his or her property or present in the dwelling, motor
vehicle, or place of business, and the actor knew or had reason to believe that an
unlawful and forcible entry was occurring"[/FONT]


If we struck out [FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]"the actor was on his or her property or present in the dwelling, motor vehicle, or place of business, and"[/FONT]

and then added some language as to the timing of the crime (Following in CAPS) so it then reads [FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]"(a) The person against whom the force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcibly entering the actor’s dwelling, motor vehicle, or place of business, OR HAD ALREADY UNLAWFULLY AND FORCIBLY ENTERED THE ACTOR'S DWELLING, MOTOR VEHICLE, OR PLACE OF BUSINESS, and the actor knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry was occurring OR HAD OCCURRED"[/FONT]

I believe that this change would enable us to protect our loved ones no matter if we were present during the break in or had arrived just after it happened, because the bill would still protect us against liability.

Many of Wisconsin's law-abiding citizens would also like to see a "stand your ground" section added to AB69 much like Florida's Statute Section 776.013
[SIZE=-1]"(3) [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."[/SIZE]

Thank you for taking the time to understand my concerns; I sincerely hope this bill soon becomes law.
I hope he takes a good look at this even though I am not one of his constituents; it would be great to get both Concealed Carry and Stand Your Ground this year! It would probably help to convince him about stand your ground (SYG) if he got some more comments along these lines.... Please pitch in.
 

BROKENSPROKET

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2010
Messages
2,199
Location
Trempealeau County
I just sent my concerns to Rep. Kaufert, the bill's author:

I hope he takes a good look at this even though I am not one of his constituents; it would be great to get both Concealed Carry and Stand Your Ground this year! It would probably help to convince him about stand your ground (SYG) if he got some more comments along these lines.... Please pitch in.

He, as the author, pulled AB69 from the Assembly Committee on Judiciary and Ethics Executive Session's agenda on June 9, 2011 so that the bill could be worked on more before it comes before the committee. Hopefully all the changes we want are being worked in as a trade-off for not getting Constitutional Carry.
 
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