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Thread: The Final Lap?

  1. #1
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    The Final Lap?

    I have asked before but this is so very important that I am going to ask again. We have 10 Senators. We need 17.

    Until there are 17 votes FOR SB93, they aren't going to bring it to the floor. It makes sense because why take a vote when it will fail? If it fails, it is dead.

    In identifying Senators who are on-board with Constitutional Carry we have Galloway, Zipperer, Kedzie, Grothmann, Lazich, Leibham, Moulton, Hoplerin, Vukmir and Kapanke.

    Those Senators not committed to Constitutional Carry, but could be and should be, are Cowles, Darling, Ellis, Fitzgerald, Hopper, Lasee, Olsen, Schultz, Wanggaard, and Hardsdorf? These are the ones we need to concentrate on. So those people in these Senator's districts need to work carefully on these Senators. It also wouldn't hurt to try and get any Democratic Senator not listed on-board as well. Every vote counts and we need 17 votes to carry SB93.

    What we have been told by the Senators and staffers is that the HARD pressure is not working. We need to be respectful. There are many emails that are working against us from people in our camp. We need to show them we will support them if they work with us instead of saying we will work against them if they don’t. We are going to have to play the way they think is best for now.

    Here is what YOU need to do if you are in one of these Senators districts. You need to ask NICELY for them to co-author the bill. No threats, no calling them backstabbers, just offers of support IF they do the right thing. The Senators have been getting their a$$es kicked for months now, you coming across as just another pi$$ed off constituent won't get them to want to help you. We are asking them to go against what the Republican Leadership wants them to do, we need to offer them cover for that. Use logical arguments. Don't keep harping "It's my right". They understand that, they need more.

    Turn any negative statements into positives. Instead of saying "You aren't supporting the Republican Party of WI platform regarding Constitutional Carry", say "I would appreciate it if you would support the Republican Party of WI platform regarding Constitutional Carry". Instead of "I will work against you in the next election if you don't support SB93", say "I will support you in the next election if you support SB93". If they are facing recall, offer to help them out before the election. If you have helped them in the past (money, time) make sure they know it. Tell them you worked the phone bank for them if you did. Tell them you had a yard sign, tell them you donated. We need to look like the good guys and show support.

    We have ONE chance to get this done. Let's not waste it.
    Last edited by phred; 06-07-2011 at 06:42 PM.

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    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
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    My representatives are both Dem's, so I don't know what type of support they would provide. I get the usual song and dance from them when they decide to respond. I sent several emails to both and have not received any response from them recently.
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

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    Regular Member hardballer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdaddy1 View Post
    My representatives are both Dem's, so I don't know what type of support they would provide. I get the usual song and dance from them when they decide to respond. I sent several emails to both and have not received any response from them recently.
    Same here but I will send to the rest of them anyway... Nice, I can be nice. Respectful. That to. I will support any legislator who backs SB93, 100%...
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    Founder's Club Member springfield 1911's Avatar
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    Sen. Wanggaard is going to be a 1 term Sen. Gov. Walker will also be a 1 termer. As stated somewhere else , It's better to piss off those who want permits and training cause they will have SB 93 And still vote for those who voted to pass it in the Senate and Assembly, Than Piss off those of us who want SB93 and get stuck with permits and training for we will not vote and support those who gave us such! And I for 1 will hold the whole party responsible , They count on us to choose the lesser of two evils so do as they please , Well they need to know who they serve They can't win with out us.
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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    What Phred said.

    We can **** this up ourselves. Victory is in our grasp. If SB93 fails, it's not Flynn's fault, it's not Walker's fault, it's ours.

    Play nice, if they screw us, we can figure out what to do then.

    I just emailed all 10 Republican Senators and then Wirch as well. I work in his district so I figure while I can't vote for him, I might have a little influence.

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    The list of 10 Senators you gave is the list of the co-sponsors of the bill. I hope you're not under the assumption that a Senator must be added to the list of cosponsors to be counted as a vote for the bill. That's not how it works. All 33 will vote either Aye or No when it's on the floor of the Senate. That is the only vote that counts. If being a co-sponsor was an automatic vote for a bill, then we'd have CC since 2004. The deciding vote in the Assembly's override attempt of Doyle's veto of the '03-'04 bill was a NO vote cast by a co-sponsor of the CC bill, Dem Gary Sherman. His No meant we had only 65 but we needed 66.

    BTW... his "excuse" for being a turncoat was there hadn't been a WI Governor's veto overridden in like 40 years, and he didn't want Doyle to be "embarrassed". The real reason? Doyle promised him something... sure enough, after he retired from the Assembly, he was given a circuit court judge job by Doyle. AFAIK, he still has it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by safcrkr View Post
    The list of 10 Senators you gave is the list of the co-sponsors of the bill. I hope you're not under the assumption that a Senator must be added to the list of cosponsors to be counted as a vote for the bill. That's not how it works. All 33 will vote either Aye or No when it's on the floor of the Senate. That is the only vote that counts.
    I know that. The co-sponsor list is the BEST list that we have to go on right now- unless you have some other information that you'd like to share.

    I have to figure that if they put their name on the bill, at least they are way ahead of those that don't.

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    Regular Member cleveland's Avatar
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    I have not spoken to a single person that was for constitutional carry, and I talk to A LOT of people. They all say the same thing. They want people to have to prove they are proficient, take training, etc... When I explain that the states that offer constitutional carry haven't had issues, that doesn't seem to effect them. I explain that I have taken a class for a permit and most of that class could be wrapped up in a small book or video. Again, it seems to have little effect on their opinion.

    I think that it will be the fault of the pro constitutional crowd when it doesn't pass. Not because we didn't want this bill enough, but because we did not educate people properly. Lack of funds to advertise our view? Not enough interest from the general public? I don't know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phred View Post
    I know that. The co-sponsor list is the BEST list that we have to go on right now- unless you have some other information that you'd like to share.

    I have to figure that if they put their name on the bill, at least they are way ahead of those that don't.
    Ok... i've read some really unknowledgable stuff about how the system works (not from you). Sorry if I thought this was another example.

    The only info I have is my Senator, Holperin (a Dem), is on that list of 10. He affirmed his support of SB93 in an interview with the local newspaper last week. What he said was he'll vote for any & every CC bill that comes up for a vote, but he specifically mentioned SB93. That's all I got, is the Senator who represents me (until he's recalled for fleeing to IL with the other 13).

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    Regular Member BROKENSPROKET's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phred View Post
    I have asked before but this is so very important that I am going to ask again. We have 10 Senators. We need 17.

    Until there are 17 votes FOR SB93, they aren't going to bring it to the floor. It makes sense because why take a vote when it will fail? If it fails, it is dead.

    In identifying Senators who are on-board with Constitutional Carry we have Galloway, Zipperer, Kedzie, Grothmann, Lazich, Leibham, Moulton, Hoplerin, Vukmir and Kapanke.

    Those Senators not committed to Constitutional Carry, but could be and should be, are Cowles, Darling, Ellis, Fitzgerald, Hopper, Lasee, Olsen, Schultz, Wanggaard, and Hardsdorf? These are the ones we need to concentrate on. So those people in these Senator's districts need to work carefully on these Senators. It also wouldn't hurt to try and get any Democratic Senator not listed on-board as well. Every vote counts and we need 17 votes to carry SB93.

    What we have been told by the Senators and staffers is that the HARD pressure is not working. We need to be respectful. There are many emails that are working against us from people in our camp. We need to show them we will support them if they work with us instead of saying we will work against them if they donít. We are going to have to play the way they think is best for now.

    Here is what YOU need to do if you are in one of these Senators districts. You need to ask NICELY for them to co-author the bill. No threats, no calling them backstabbers, just offers of support IF they do the right thing. The Senators have been getting their a$$es kicked for months now, you coming across as just another pi$$ed off constituent won't get them to want to help you. We are asking them to go against what the Republican Leadership wants them to do, we need to offer them cover for that. Use logical arguments. Don't keep harping "It's my right". They understand that, they need more.

    Turn any negative statements into positives. Instead of saying "You aren't supporting the Republican Party of WI platform regarding Constitutional Carry", say "I would appreciate it if you would support the Republican Party of WI platform regarding Constitutional Carry". Instead of "I will work against you in the next election if you don't support SB93", say "I will support you in the next election if you support SB93". If they are facing recall, offer to help them out before the election. If you have helped them in the past (money, time) make sure they know it. Tell them you worked the phone bank for them if you did. Tell them you had a yard sign, tell them you donated. We need to look like the good guys and show support.

    We have ONE chance to get this done. Let's not waste it.
    Thank you for sharing your opinion. But, that is what it is, an opinion.

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    Regular Member Outdoorsman1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BROKENSPROKET View Post
    Thank you for sharing your opinion. But, that is what it is, an opinion.
    My opinion is that phred's opinion is the BEST opinion I have EVER read on this website.

    When trying to discribe it...Common Sence comes to mind...

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    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phred View Post
    What we have been told by the Senators and staffers is that the HARD pressure is not working. We need to be respectful.
    Threats never work. Those making them simply appear to be extremists instead of reasonable.

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interceptor_Knight View Post
    Threats never work. Those making them simply appear to be extremists instead of reasonable.
    Yes.

    I was thinking about this a little more last night. Representative Don Pridemore was at our Starbucks meet this past Sunday and an off the cuff remark resonated. A lady came by and asked "Where are all the people with the guns? Oh, here you are, good job!". She was wearing a t-shirt that said 'soccer' on it. Pridemore said something to the effect "A soccer mom in favor of carrying". The lady said "Not a soccer mom, I have no kids". Pridemore said after she walked away "Too bad, the opposition will be saying soccer moms are against this".

    I have personally sat down with several elected officials and all of them are concerned about any potential backlash. I believe that is why the GFSZ portion of SB93 is like it is. This insulates them from the "You are letting people take guns to school" statement.

    So..... If we give them positive arguments, they are much more likely to take our side.

  14. #14
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    I believe we now have a new short term goal. It looks like SB93 got referred to the Joint Finance Committee. So.... we need to work on the following:

    Senator Alberta Darling, Co-Chair
    Senator Luther Olsen
    Senator Sheila Harsdorf
    Senator Joe Leibham
    Senator Glenn Grothman
    Senator Randy Hopper
    Senator Lena Taylor
    Senator Robert Jauch

    Representative Robin Vos, Co-Chair
    Representative Dan Meyer
    Representative Dan LeMahieu
    Representative John Nygren
    Representative Pat Strachota
    Representative Pat Strachota
    Representative Joel Kleefisch
    Representative Tamara Grigsby
    Representative Jennifer Shilling

    The ones in bold are co-authors/co-sponsors so we need to work on the rest.
    Last edited by paul@paul-fisher.com; 06-08-2011 at 08:30 AM. Reason: Fixed formatting

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    More information

    I did not generate this file. It came from the Tea Party. It sure would be nice if it got into the hands of all Republican Legislators. Those of you in districts represented by them, feel free to pass this along to your Republican Legislators.

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    Regular Member XDFDE45's Avatar
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    I've been keeping on Carpenter and Krusick but not holding my breath. Got another letter from Carpenter last week about the emails I've sent him saying "I support Conceal Carry, will look at SB93, haven't made up my mind blah blah blah". At least I got something from him, haven't heard squat from Krusick .
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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    They are taking this up tomorrow. Please contact them TODAY!

    http://budget.wispolitics.com/2011/0...l-take-up.html

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    I should also add I have contacted Dan Meyer and received a response that he is in full support of concealed carry (however he did not state a particular bill) and is watching the situation however obviously cannot do anything as it has not yet passed the Senate. I thanked him, and also sent that flyer along that phred posted above (thanks!!).

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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    They are taking this up tomorrow. Please contact them TODAY!

    http://budget.wispolitics.com/2011/0...l-take-up.html
    I could be totally wrong about this.... but I don't like this development.

    The only reason for a bill to go to a "joint" committee is to make changes to it. Remember the budget repair bill that went to a "joint" committee to remove the fiscal stuff to bypass the missing qourum from the 14 Dems in "exile" in IL ? That's the meeting that put the collective bargaining bill in court... the Dems say there wasn't enough notice given.

    Add that to what Darrin LaSorte said in that video from last Friday about "not enough votes for constitutional carry"; the new law will likely have "easy to get permits and training standards like FL"; and "look for something hopefully next Thursday". Tomorrow is the Thursday he referred to, and the committee meets tomorrow.

    In my best Scooby-Do impression ... "Ruh-Roh".

    edit to add: Again, I could be wrong.... but I believe this committee has the power to take several existing bills and combine them into one "new" bill. IF the legislature intends on adding mandatory shall-issue permits and/or a training requirement (or anything else) to a CC bill, this is one way they could that without the time consuming and sometimes contenscious procedure of doing so on the Senate or Assembly floors by amendments there. The Democrats are resigned to the fact that a CC law will be passed. In the LaSorte video, he also said there'd be "bi-partisan support" for a CC bill... "almost a third of the Senate Dems and Asembly Dems will vote for it" he said. This meeting COULD be them getting together on a consensus CC bill that'd get that bi-partisan support, and would eliminate any bickering back & forth on the legisltures' floors.

    Geez, I hope I'm wrong... but wow, is there enough "evidence" to support my theory.
    Last edited by safcrkr; 06-08-2011 at 04:07 PM. Reason: additional comments

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    Quote Originally Posted by safcrkr View Post
    I could be totally wrong about this.... but I don't like this development.

    The only reason for a bill to go to a "joint" committee is to make changes to it.
    I hope not! If there are any changes let's hope they are for the better. Guess we'll find out tomorrow. Will this be available to watch online?

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    Taylor, Jauch, Grigsby, and Shilling are amongst the most vehement opponants to ANY CC bill as you'll find in WI... or anywhere else. Shilling's parents were murdered in an armed robbery in their business in ILL, and she blames guns, not criminals. Similar situation to Suzanna Hupp from Texas, but a totally opposite reaction. She's a fanatical anti.
    Last edited by safcrkr; 06-08-2011 at 03:29 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by technician View Post
    Will this be available to watch online?
    If it is, it'll be here -> http://www.wiseye.com/

    Not on the schedule as of now. Check again later today or tomorrow morning.

  24. #24
    Regular Member davegran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by safcrkr View Post
    I could be totally wrong about this.... but I don't like this development.

    The only reason for a bill to go to a "joint" committee is to make changes to it. ....
    No. It's just part of the bill process to check fiscal stuff before passing it on. The Joint Committee (Sometimes known as the "Weiner Committee" thanks to Anthony....) does this for any bill from either house:
    The Joint Finance Committee just looks at fiscal stuff:
    Review of Other Fiscal Bills

    The Committee's fiscal oversight duties include
    the review of all other (non-budget) revenue or
    spending bills. This responsibility emanates from a
    statutory requirement [s. 13.093(1)] which specifies
    that, "All bills introduced in either house of the legis-
    lature for the appropriation of money, providing
    for revenue or relating to taxation shall be referred
    to the joint committee on finance before being
    passed."
    Here is a further description of what their responsibilities are: http://legis.wisconsin.gov/lfb/Infor...%20Finance.pdf
    This bill is getting closer to a vote....
    Dave
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  25. #25
    Regular Member davegran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phred View Post
    I did not generate this file. It came from the Tea Party. It sure would be nice if it got into the hands of all Republican Legislators. Those of you in districts represented by them, feel free to pass this along to your Republican Legislators.
    Thanks, Phred! I sent this PDF to my representative with this note:
    RE: A plea for your constituents.

    Dear Representative Loudenbeck,
    As you have heard, SB93, the Concealed Carry bill is making it's way through the Senate. It is now in the Joint Committee on Finance, so it will be on the Senate floor soon.

    This is an important bill for Wisconsin. Our law-abiding citizens have been unable to defend themselves for many, many years; literally hundreds of people have been robbed, injured and even killed with no way to prevent the violence. This bill can change all that. One of the most important components of the bill is the ability to carry a concealed weapon in Wisconsin, with some limitations, with no permit, or training; sometimes referred to as "Constitutional Carry". This is the part of the bill that will allow our low income people to defend themselves without having to pay onerous fees for permits and training. I have included a brochure which outlines the important aspects of Constitutional Carry.

    The bill also allows for a permit process to enable people who travel to other states to be able to take advantage of those states' reciprocal concealed carry agreements. This part of the bill will mandate training and background checks plus a renewable permit.

    In the absence of Concealed Carry in Wisconsin, I have held a Utah non-resident Concealed Carry permit for the past four years which allows me to carry in 30 other states, but not Wisconsin. What is wrong with this picture?

    I am hoping and praying that you will sign on as a cosponsor of this bill and support it and vote for it when it comes to the Assembly; your constituents deserve to be able to defend themselves against the random violence which exists in Wisconsin. Self-preservation is a God-given right that should not be denied to any law-abiding citizen.

    Thank you very much for your attention in this matter, Representative Loudenbeck.
    Now I'll send it to my Democratic Senator, Tim Cullen.
    Dave
    45ACP-For when you care enough to send the very best-
    Fight for "Stand Your Ground " legislation!

    WI DA Gerald R. Fox:
    "These so-called 'public safety' laws only put decent law-abiding citizens at a dangerous disadvantage when it comes to their personal safety, and I for one am glad that this decades-long era of defective thinking on gun issues is over..."

    Remember: Don't make old People mad. We don't like being old in the first place, so it doesn't take much to piss us off.

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