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Thread: Take Back Independence Day

  1. #1
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    Take Back Independence Day

    http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=206151566087404

    I'm designing a black t-shirt with a black and white American flag flown upside down over the left chest with (in color) the American flag fading into the gadsden flag on the back. I'm doing it at cafe press so if anyone is interested you'll be able to buy one.

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    Are you nuts? wear black outside in July!?

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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    http://www.local10.com/video/28151859/index.html

    At 1:50 the cops take a News Camera and say " you're not getting it back".

    !st Amendment. Take it back.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

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    Um...no.

    I am going to celebrate the founding of this great Nation with lots of red, white, and blue, also some Baseball, a hot dog, an apple pie, and a Nissan. God Bless Liberty, including free enterprise.

    Oh, and some fireworks after the Biscuits game, sponsored by Max, "your community credit union."

    Happy Birthday, Liberty!

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Um...no.

    I am going to celebrate the founding of this great Nation with lots of red, white, and blue, also some Baseball, a hot dog, an apple pie, and a Nissan. God Bless Liberty, including free enterprise.

    Oh, and some fireworks after the Biscuits game, sponsored by Max, "your community credit union."

    Happy Birthday, Liberty!
    What liberty? Our democracy is a facade! We are a police state! What are you going to celebrate, liberation from the British?

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    We are not a democracy and never were. Democracy is actually antithetical to Liberty.

    That would be a good place for you to start: learning the difference between a republic and a democracy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    We are not a democracy and never were. Democracy is actually antithetical to Liberty.

    That would be a good place for you to start: learning the difference between a republic and a democracy.
    always so condescending in your replies...no wonder I see so many posts portraying dislike towards you. Anyways...enjoy your celebration!

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    Oh...and for everyone else, I'm not making any money off the t-shirt...just a design I created for myself and thought I'd share.

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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyras21 View Post
    always so condescending in your replies...no wonder I see so many posts portraying dislike towards you. Anyways...enjoy your celebration!
    The "ignore" feature in settings is bliss.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

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    Quote Originally Posted by cyras21 View Post
    ...
    Correcting someone making such fundamental errors comes off as condescending.

    meh.

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    There was a nice, well meaning gentleman from Alabama who attempted to do so. He OC'd an AK-47 and a Glock 17. He was arrested for disorderly conduct, and found guilty of DC by a judge who misapplied the statue.
    It takes a village to raise an idiot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cyras21 View Post
    What liberty?
    He said "Happy Liberty," with a capital "L." It's a way of referring to our country in general, as in "Lady Liberty."

    As for the t-shirt, I have zero issues with the back design, but I'd have to wear the flag right-side up, as that's commensurate with U.S. Law governing the display and use of our flag.

    The particular section governing the display of an inverted flag is Section 8(a): "The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property."

    Even in support of your cause, I see no "dire distress" or "extreme danger to life or property." I think displaying our flag inverted on the front under the circumstances of protesting encroachments on our liberty would simply be disrespectful to our flag.
    Last edited by since9; 06-22-2011 at 02:35 AM. Reason: grammar
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    It is not a "euphemism." It is not a gentle way of referring to something distasteful.

    While our system is not perfect and is not entirely as our Founders and Framers envisioned, our Nation is still a shining example of Liberty in action for the world to see. We should actively use the institutions set in place to protect and expand that Liberty, rather than imply that we have none.

    Happy birthday, Liberty--our gift to the world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    http://www.local10.com/video/28151859/index.html

    At 1:50 the cops take a News Camera and say " you're not getting it back".

    !st Amendment. Take it back.
    Excellent video, HandyHamlet!

    However, while the First Amendment covers many forms of expression, the capture of other people's expression is usually covered under copyright and trademark law, as well as in local, state, and federal laws preventing recording in certain environments, among those, TSA security checkpoints. Try shutting down our eyes and ears as we go through those checkpoints, though...

    Having said that, I do believe anything done in full view of the public should be free to be recorded by any member of the public.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cyras21 View Post
    What liberty? Our democracy is a facade! We are a police state! What are you going to celebrate, liberation from the British?
    I take it you've never been in an actual "police state". I have. This ain't it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    Excellent video, HandyHamlet!

    However, while the First Amendment covers many forms of expression, the capture of other people's expression is usually covered under copyright and trademark law, as well as in local, state, and federal laws preventing recording in certain environments, among those, TSA security checkpoints.

    You are mixing up a bunch of different things. You have no expectation of privacy when you are in public. It is perfectly legal to take anyone's picture if they are in public. Selling pictures of people is a completely different thing and requires a model release.


    Having said that, I do believe anything done in full view of the public should be free to be recorded by any member of the public.
    It is. It is legal to take pictures of anything you can see with your eyes in public from a public place. However there are a very limited number of places where photography is prohibited. Like inside some court houses/court rooms, TSA Security check points as you said... Military Bases have restricted areas obviously.

    Otherwise, photography IS protected by the 1st Amendment and is not a crime.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

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    Quote Originally Posted by PavePusher View Post
    I take it you've never been in an actual "police state". I have. This ain't it.
    Oh? So, we have to wait until we achieve an actual Khymer Cambodia, Soviet Union, or Saudi Arabia before we can use the term?

    A news article or op ed I read recently pointed out there is little enough difference between a government that forbids something, and a government that makes regulations knowing those regulations will drive out of business what the government wants gone.

    Seen those videos lately of cops arresting people who video'd them? Sounds like we're well on our way to a secret police to me--the cops wanta operate in secret with little accountability. How about that one where the only reason we got the video was the guy hid the chip or card from his cop-smashed phone in his mouth throughout his arrest and booking? This cop-on-private-videographer business is too frequent to be "an isolated incident."

    Personally, when the fedgov, in collusion with the Federal Reserve and the banksters, can wreck the entire economy, putting 10% of people out of work, and lord knows how many people out of their homes, and drive the national debt to the moon (a huge tax liability), I call that repression. Its a different repression. Its creative. Its hidden. And, its suppressive.

    This list of government abuses goes on and on and on. Today I was reading how the FDA forbade in-home AIDS tests. Op ed written by a guy who first tried to get such off the ground in the (1987?). Just when I thought I'd finally got a grip on the extent of the soft tyranny, I find out the fegov has had policies in place that have helped with the spread of the AIDS virus.

    I think maybe we've been ommitting to celebrate an important day. Its not the revolution that's important; its what you do with it that counts. We should be celebrating the Bill of Rights, too. A July 4th celebration that includes a complete reading of the Declaration of Independence, as well as the fireworks. And, then a blow-out celebration of the Bill of Rights on December 15th.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PavePusher View Post
    I take it you've never been in an actual "police state". I have. This ain't it.
    There are a lot of posters here who use a lot of hyperbolic terms to describe troubling trends. They don't know that, by their overusing such inappropriately strong terms, they are causing folks that we could win over to help change these trends to just shake their heads and move on.

    Excessive hyperbole gives our movement a "wacko" overtone, like we are reacting emotionally, instead of projecting the rationality that has marked our successes.

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    SNIP Excessive hyperbole gives our movement a "wacko" overtone, like we are reacting emotionally, instead of projecting the rationality that has marked our successes.
    Oh? Like this poster from another thread?

    I think that not asking to be able to maintain the plausible deniability that claiming not to have seen the sign would permit is despicable.

    I won't ignore the rights of the property-owner and hide behind the subterfuge of I-didn't-see-the-sign. That is morally reprehensible.
    Post #7: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...88#post1552088
    Last edited by Citizen; 06-13-2011 at 10:28 PM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    There are a lot of posters here who use a lot of hyperbolic terms to describe troubling trends. They don't know that, by their overusing such inappropriately strong terms, they are causing folks that we could win over to help change these trends to just shake their heads and move on.

    Excessive hyperbole gives our movement a "wacko" overtone, like we are reacting emotionally, instead of projecting the rationality that has marked our successes.
    Overusing? Inappropriately strong terms? Who defines "overuse" and "inappropriately strong"?

    What if the fella using the term has read up on the subject more deeply? Has more familiarity with the scene?

    Wacko overtone? (Really? Whacko?) (Boy, talk about hyperbole. Sheesh.) All it can do is give the viewer who may not have the backround to grasp the writer's perspective the idea that there is one whacko in that thread. If that reader adds any "overtone"--attributes more whackos than countable--its that reader's own reaction, not rational thought.

    So, qwitcherbitchin. I'm not going to spend two hours listing examples of how this country is becoming a police state, or has already become one, before I use the term, just to avoid "giving a whacko overtone". Other readers can do just what I had to do when I encountered information that bent my sense of reality--live with it until I could figure out what the writer was talking about or grasp his perspective.

    Moving on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    As for the t-shirt, I have zero issues with the back design, but I'd have to wear the flag right-side up, as that's commensurate with U.S. Law governing the display and use of our flag.

    The particular section governing the display of an inverted flag is Section 8(a): "The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property."

    Even in support of your cause, I see no "dire distress" or "extreme danger to life or property." I think displaying our flag inverted on the front under the circumstances of protesting encroachments on our liberty would simply be disrespectful to our flag.
    I hate to say it but the man is right. If you ditched the upside down flag I would be interested. IMO might as well burn a US flag or be like my neighbor and fly a Canadian Flag on July 4th.
    \
    On a side note looking through the code of conduct in regards to the US flag it would seem that wearing shirts, ect with the US flag on them is in violation. I wonder if these "rules" have any legal ramification, or are merely a sort of "Gentlemens Agreement."
    Last edited by DevinWKuska; 06-13-2011 at 11:15 PM. Reason: Reduce Posting
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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Overusing? Inappropriately strong terms? Who defines "overuse" and "inappropriately strong"?
    ...
    I agree.

    This guy says "police state" in his opening... But I'm sure he has no clue.







    Who Polices the Police?

    Jun 10, 2011
    The Judge's commentary on the Memorial Day weekend police shooting in Miami and the federal investigation of the Newark Police Department

    http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/98744...es-the-police/


    Cops taking cell phones at gun point. Smashing news cameras. States charging people with archaic wiretap laws to protect their illegal activities... No singing at the Jefferson Memorial. Our Memorial.
    Time to take it back.
    Last edited by HandyHamlet; 06-13-2011 at 11:30 PM.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

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    IMO (and I would bet in the opinion of almost all of the posters here), "police state" as a description of the US would be "inappropriately strong" and that characterization has been "overused" here by some.

    But, hey, if some of you want to keep it up, go for it. At best, we can point out the folly of doing so. We can't stop you. We can only try to dissuade you.
    Last edited by eye95; 06-13-2011 at 11:31 PM.

  24. #24
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    I actually never use the term. But I think I'll start. And I'll stop using it when the Judge stops. Or I can sing at the Jefferson Memorial without getting arrested. Or dance. Or take video.
    Last edited by HandyHamlet; 06-13-2011 at 11:34 PM.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

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    Less than 50 years ago, American citizens protesting the Vietnam war were facing off with American military troops with mounted bayonets, and some were even shot.

    Less than 60 years ago, American troops were facing down American citizens who either favored or opposed (depending on the date/state) racial integration of schools.

    Less than 70 years ago, American citizens and multi-generation immigrants were rounded up at gunpoint and forced into internment camps, based on nothing more than official U.S. Census data about their heritage (remember the promises that U.S. Census would never disclose your personal information? HA!)

    Less than 80 years ago, American citizens were gassed, burned, bayonetted, and shot by U.S. Army troops under MacArthur, Eisenhower, and Patton. The citizens were veterans and their families, who had the nerve to camp out in a public park in DC, demanding that the government pay them what they'd been promised.

    Less than 110 years ago, U.S. Army troops were called into service in Colorado to suppress miners who were on strike.

    Should I go on?

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