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Thread: WTF? SWAT for defaulted student loans???

  1. #1
    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    WTF? SWAT for defaulted student loans???

    A SWAT team broke down a man's door and dragged him and his young kids out of the house --- because the federal DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION had issued a search warrant to search for his WIFE, who had apparently defaulted on student loans....

    Deadly force authorized to collect a debt? Has it truly come to this?

    http://www.news10.net/news/article/1...kton-mans-door.

    ETA alternate link:

    http://www.prisonplanet.com/swat-tea...n-default.html
    Last edited by JamesCanby; 06-08-2011 at 01:05 PM.

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    I smell some exaggerated BS. Stockton PD says they provided a single officer and a single patrol car. So whose SWAT team was this? The Education Department has a SWAT team?

    I don't think so. There is a lot more to this story than is being reported.

    At face value, this action seems illegally disproportionate. At face value.

    However, at face value, this story does not ring true. I look forward to reporting a little deeper than "face value."

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    Apparently you didn't read the article,

    The Office of the Inspector General has a law enforcement branch of federal agents that carry out search warrants and investigations.
    And,

    Stockton Police Department said it was asked by federal agents to provide one officer and one patrol car just for a police presence when carrying out the search warrant.
    The way I read it is that a DOE SWAT Team knocked down the door with ONE SPD officer watching.

  4. #4
    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    I smell some exaggerated BS. Stockton PD says they provided a single officer and a single patrol car. So whose SWAT team was this? The Education Department has a SWAT team?

    I don't think so. There is a lot more to this story than is being reported.

    At face value, this action seems illegally disproportionate. At face value.

    However, at face value, this story does not ring true. I look forward to reporting a little deeper than "face value."
    It's hard to believe that you actually read the article or watched the video.

    Mr. Wright (the homeowner) said:

    "I look out of my window and I see 15 police officers," Wright said. [emphasis mine]

    Wright came downstairs in his boxer shorts as a S.W.A.T team barged through his front door. Wright said an officer grabbed him by the neck and led him outside on his front lawn.

    "He had his knee on my back and I had no idea why they were there," Wright said.

    According to Wright, officers also woke his three young children ages 3, 7, and 11 and put them in a Stockton police patrol car with him. Officers then searched his house.

    The federal officer that was interviewed said "they only requested one patrol car from Stockton." He does not say how many federal officers there were or how many Stockton police were actually involved. This was a federal search warrant and we know that the feds have SWAT teams.

    I will give the benefit of the doubt to the homeowner -- who said that he saw "15 police officers" outside his house.

    Regardless of whether it was local or federal SWAT, what REASONABLE basis would a police department have to break in to a citizen's house and detain him or her because of defaulted student loans? That's a civil situation, not criminal. I thought only the Mafia used force to collect "debts."
    Last edited by JamesCanby; 06-08-2011 at 10:00 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xd shooter View Post
    Apparently you didn't read the article,

    And,

    The way I read it is that a DOE SWAT Team knocked down the door with ONE SPD officer watching.
    Yeah, I read the article. And I find your implication that I did not to be unnecessarily insulting. That will not build within me respect for your POV. I suggest that you refrain from such petty behavior.

    The article does not say whose SWAT team. So, again, I ask, whose? Does the Education Department have a SWAT team? Or was the mention of SWAT an exaggeration? Or did some other agency provide the SWAT team?

    I smell exaggerated BS in the article. You see, not only did I read the article; I read it critically, not being predisposed to accepting it all on face value.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    It's hard to believe that you actually read the article or watched the video.

    Mr. Wright (the homeowner) said:

    "I look out of my window and I see 15 police officers," Wright said. [emphasis mine]

    Wright came downstairs in his boxer shorts as a S.W.A.T team barged through his front door. Wright said an officer grabbed him by the neck and led him outside on his front lawn.

    "He had his knee on my back and I had no idea why they were there," Wright said.

    According to Wright, officers also woke his three young children ages 3, 7, and 11 and put them in a Stockton police patrol car with him. Officers then searched his house.

    The federal officer that was interviewed said "they only requested one patrol car from Stockton." He does not say how many federal officers there were or how many Stockton police were actually involved. This was a federal search warrant and we know that the feds have SWAT teams.

    I will give the benefit of the doubt to the homeowner -- who said that he saw "15 police officers" outside his house.

    Regardless of whether it was local or federal SWAT, what REASONABLE basis would a police department have to break in to a citizen's house and detain him or her because of defaulted student loans? That's a civil situation, not criminal. I thought only the Mafia used force to collect "debts."
    I suggest that you read the article critically and not let any predispositions you may have push you to accepting what is said on face value.

    Again, whose SWAT team? I tend to think that "SWAT" is a characterization and not a fact and that the reason being purely unpaid loans is a conclusion and not a fact, but I am willing to say that I don't know and am willing to await more facts before participating in World Championship Conclusion Jumping.

    If indeed a SWAT team was used purely to collect a student loan, then this was horrific and likely criminal. I just am not going to believe this to be the case based on the reporting so far.

    Critical thinking and reading, folks. I recommend trying it.
    Last edited by eye95; 06-08-2011 at 11:18 AM. Reason: To underline the answer to the question in some following posts, thereby avoiding a repetitive post.

  7. #7
    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    I suggest that you read the article critically and not let any predispositions you may have push you to accepting what is said on face value.

    Again, whose SWAT team? I tend to think that "SWAT" is a characterization and not a fact and that the reason being purely unpaid loans is a conclusion and not a fact, but I am willing to say that I don't know and am willing to await more facts before participating in World Championship Conclusion Jumping.

    If indeed a SWAT team was used purely to collect a student loan, then this was horrific and likely criminal. I just am not going to believe this to be the case based on the reporting so far.

    Critical thinking and reading, folks. I recommend trying it.
    Given that the news reporters performed their job and attempted to get clarification from the federal agent -- who obfuscated by not commenting and referring them to the OIG, my critical thinking skills lead me to believe the citizen's account.

    The facts from the article and video are plain:

    The citizen's door was forcibly breached and by his account -- not refuted by the local or federal LEOs -- that he and his young children were forcibly removed from his home and detained for six hours (two for his children), all over a civil matter regarding debt collection for a debt allegedly owed by his wife, not him.

    A telling factor is that the local authorities declined comment on this incident, essentially washing their hands of any responsibility and by implication saying that this was completely a federal attack on a citizen. Any Stockton police officer was there simply as window dressing.

    Critical thinking skills are an important adjunct to decision-making ... but one should not arbitrarily discount the testimony of one directly involved or the plainly visible evidence.

    I suspect that -- if this story has 'legs' and is followed up and reported on instead of languishing in the reporter's bit-bucket -- that we will see a serious misapplication of federal force.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    The news report says SWAT. Failing contradictory reports, one can assume it was SWAT. Whose department they came from is only the most minor part of this story. Government abuse, violation of civil rights, terrorizing a man and his children for SIX HOURS with a warrant for a person who was not even at the premises is the egregeous story here, not jurisdictions. Nazi tactics from federal "law" enforcement is hardly anything new these days. So far, it sounds like Stockton PD was only peripherally involved. And for student loans. What's next? Overdue library books?
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    The news report says SWAT. Failing contradictory reports, one can assume it was SWAT. Whose department they came from is only the most minor part of this story. Government abuse, violation of civil rights, terrorizing a man and his children for SIX HOURS with a warrant for a person who was not even at the premises is the egregeous story here, not jurisdictions. Nazi tactics from federal "law" enforcement is hardly anything new these days. So far, it sounds like Stockton PD was only peripherally involved. And for student loans. What's next? Overdue library books?
    Again, whose SWAT?? The word is often bandied about, not really meaning SWAT. Until it is reported which agency provided the SWAT team, I remain unconvinced that it was a SWAT team. I also remain unconvinced that the intrusion was for student loans only.

    There is more information out there. I hope folks want that information before making judgments. Clearly some don't care to hear the whole story before jumping to conclusions. *sigh*

    Anyway, my point was to convince readers of this thread to think and not just react. I have made that point, so I will move on for now.
    Last edited by eye95; 06-08-2011 at 11:19 AM. Reason: To underline the answer to the question in the two following posts, thereby avoiding a repetitive post.

  10. #10
    Regular Member VW_Factor's Avatar
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    Why does it matter whose SWAT so much anyway?

    The local boys sent one guy and that is all the admit too..

    So logically, it was something greater than city or county boys, likely federal. (such as mentioned in the article)

    Beyond that, why so important?

  11. #11
    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Again, whose SWAT?? The word is often bandied about, not really meaning SWAT. Until it is reported which agency provided the SWAT team, I remain unconvinced that it was a SWAT team. I also remain unconvinced that the intrusion was for student loans only.

    There is more information out there. I hope folks want that information before making judgments. Clearly some don't care to hear the whole story before jumping to conclusions. *sigh*

    Anyway, my point was to convince readers of this thread to think and not just react. I have made that point, so I will move on for now.
    Who CARES whose SWAT team it was? Does it make it any more right if it was a Stockton SWAT team? An FBI SWAT team? Or, incredibly, a Department of EDUCATION SWAT team? Or even if it was or not a SWAT team, just 15 police/federal officers breaking into a citizen's house to collect a civil debt?

    That you are concentrating on which agency supplied the SWAT team instead of the egregious use of force to collect a civil debt speaks volumes. Glad you are moving on, having contributed nothing substantive beyond condescension.

  12. #12
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    the report does seem to be genuine. if Special Weapons And Tactics was used, can we not come to the conclusion that it was a SWAT team.
    agreed, i would also like to know whose or what forces was used. and also why were such extreme tactics used? was there a history of this women being a danger? or is this SOP for these kind of people?

    does it seem like we are getting a lot more reports of these kind of tactics being used? could it be they are being used more, or is it getting reported more?

    thought some of the comments on the site were interesting
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

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    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    The Office of Inspector General purchased 27 shotguns in '08 and delivered just last year. I'm going to go out on a limb and suppose those firearms were purchased for official business and not for dove hunting.
    What business would the OIG have with shotguns except for carrying them on "...independent and objective audits, investigations, inspections, and other activities..."?
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 06-08-2011 at 12:02 PM.

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    According to the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center, there are in the neighborhood of 89 Federal Agencies with armed units.
    Department of Education has an armed unit
    ----- Office of the Inspector General (OIG) (... as pointed out not a 'swat' team by name, yet still an armed unit.)

    Department of Health and Human services has two
    ----- Food and Drug Administration (FDA)
    ----- Office of Criminal Investigations

    as does the Department of Agriculture (USDA)
    ----- U.S. Forest Service Law Enforcement and Investigations
    ----- Office of Inspector General

    United States Post Office
    ----- United States Postal Inspection Service (USPIS)

    Even the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration is in the game
    ----- National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration Fisheries Office for Law Enforcement

    I will note here that not all are "SWAT", "SRU", "HRT" or any other notably special unit.

    The better question might be what Federal agency does not have an armed unit?
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 06-08-2011 at 12:52 PM.

  15. #15
    Regular Member LibertyDeath's Avatar
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    The link is broken now. I call shenanigans.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    the report does seem to be genuine. if Special Weapons And Tactics was used, can we not come to the conclusion that it was a SWAT team.

    If SWAT was used in the LA area, I think the story would be better served by using the ORIGINAL meaning of that name, when it was created by the illustrious (or infamous) Daryl Gates of LAPD in 1968, to deal with the minoroties who were getting a little too "uppity" for the LAPD's taste. Gates originally called these groups "Special Weapons Attack Teams". And in this particular instance, this seems a more appropriate name...

    The name was changed later, to the more commonly known "Special Weapons and Tactics"--which doesn't even make sense grammatically--to sound less aggressive and more politically correct...

    And yes"Eye95", the Dept. of Ed DOES have an armed enforcement group.
    It's called the "Office of the Inspector General", and like OIG groups in EVERY OTHER cabinet-level Department, it has armed troops, the power of arrest, and the authority to swear out and prosecute search warrrants. A simple search on Google, or even the US Dept. of Eds website would show you that...

    It's essentially a Federal version of Truant Officers, except they primarily go after people who they suspect are using student loans and grants in a fraudulent manner. In fact the Washington Post ran an article last year detailing the purchase of 27 new 12ga Remington 870s (with 14-inch barrels!) by the DoE's OIG. (I've also included the official website for the solicitation)

    http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ans...27-shotgu.html

    https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportun...=core&_cview=0


    Please, "eye95" and other "tyranny deniers" out there--wake the f### up.

    It doesn't take genius-level Goggle-Fu to find this stuff. Your "unicorns and glitter" perception of the Federal government is growing tiresome, and your "coincidence theories" are even more delusional that the weirdest "conspiracy theories"...
    Last edited by Dreamer; 06-08-2011 at 02:37 PM.
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  17. #17
    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyDeath View Post
    The link is broken now. I call shenanigans.
    The link is NOT broken, it works fine from the OP and from Drudge.

    Here it is again: http://www.news10.net/news/article/1...kton-mans-door

  18. #18
    Regular Member LibertyDeath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    The link is NOT broken, it works fine from the OP and from Drudge.

    Here it is again: http://www.news10.net/news/article/1...kton-mans-door
    Reload the page.

    http://www.news10.net/404.aspx

  19. #19
    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyDeath View Post
    I just did -- comes up just fine on my computer. Clear your cache.

  20. #20
    Regular Member LibertyDeath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    I just did -- comes up just fine on my computer. Clear your cache.
    Odd, it just will not work on my computer.

    I found another link to the story though.

    http://www.prisonplanet.com/swat-tea...n-default.html

    Where is Paul Harvey, I want the rest of the story.

  21. #21
    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyDeath View Post
    Odd, it just will not work on my computer.

    I found another link to the story though.

    http://www.prisonplanet.com/swat-tea...n-default.html

    Where is Paul Harvey, I want the rest of the story.
    Ok, now *I* get the "page not found" error. Glad you found the alternate link.

  22. #22
    Regular Member LibertyDeath's Avatar
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    Sweet, I'm not crazy. lol

  23. #23
    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    I contacted Channel 10 news by email and got this reply:

    Jim,
    Thanks for contacting us. The story is being updated now and will be up shortly. The Department of Education has given us more information about their side of the story. It's loading onto our site now and should be updated in about 8 minutes.

    Thanks,
    Roy Kennedy
    News10

  24. #24
    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyDeath View Post
    Sweet, I'm not crazy. lol
    I don't know if you're crazy or not, but you were correct, at least in this instance.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    This story just made 6 forums I subscribe to, I suspect that a few servers may be crashing.

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