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Thread: Bill that changes nothing but is halied as "priority legislation" presented to gov

  1. #1
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Bill that changes nothing but is halied as "priority legislation" presented to gov

    http://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2011/234

    Email Scott and ask him to veto, not that he will.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  2. #2
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    This bill takes away our previous protection in Case Law, and gives LEOs and the SA a new subjectivity weapon to finally be able to prosecute accidental exposure where they previously could not.

    It does the OPPOSITE of protecting CCers, gives LEOs and SA more power to subjugate the Gun Owners they've declared war on, and the Statist RINOs trumpet it as if it were a good thing to the stupid Conservative sheeple who can't think for themselves.

    Floriduh is useless.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  3. #3
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Once he signs this abomination could I not walk around "briefly" lifting my shirt displaying my gun to the sight of another person? Shirt goes up down, up down....say 5 seconds between lifts.
    Last edited by 77zach; 06-08-2011 at 12:43 PM.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  4. #4
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    But then it's up to a LEO to decide if that was intentional, rude, threatening, etc... And that LEO's report being Scripture in Court.... You're boned.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  5. #5
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    But then it's up to a LEO to decide if that was intentional, rude, threatening, etc... And that LEO's report being Scripture in Court.... You're boned.
    It's only a crime if it's "intentionally displayed in a rude or threatening manner" not merely intentionally displayed.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  6. #6
    Regular Member RRobaldo's Avatar
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    There's nothing in the wording preventing rude or intentional.
    Just that it must be brief (whatever that means) and not threatening.

  7. #7
    Regular Member RRobaldo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    It's only a crime if it's "intentionally displayed in a rude or threatening manner" not merely intentionally displayed.
    No, not "rude". You can be as rude as you want. You can't be ANGRY, but you can be rude.

  8. #8
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RRobaldo View Post
    There's nothing in the wording preventing rude or intentional.
    Just that it must be brief (whatever that means) and not threatening.
    It's just so hilarious and pathetic to watch. Almost more hilarious than pathetic. Land of the free home of the brave.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  9. #9
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RRobaldo View Post
    No, not "rude". You can be as rude as you want. You can't be ANGRY, but you can be rude.
    You're right. We can now open carry rudely and briefly but not angrily.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  10. #10
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    And what prevents a LEO from lying now? Nothing. Not that this part has changed...

    At least before, their testimony wasn't statutorily expected as part of the body of evidence. Now it is. Their 'opinion,' be it a lie or otherwise, is all it takes now.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  11. #11
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    You're right. We can now open carry rudely and briefly but not angrily.
    Well naturally. It's rude for any serf to think that s/he should be carrying, or even owning, a firearm...

    That word in itself would have negated the whole of 790.06 as only dirty serfs would apply for it to begin with... How dare they...
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  12. #12
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    And what prevents a LEO from lying now? Nothing. Not that this part has changed...

    At least before, their testimony wasn't statutorily expected as part of the body of evidence. Now it is. Their 'opinion,' be it a lie or otherwise, is all it takes now.
    I don't know if I see it that way. Before, any exposure at all was just illegal, no matter what. My point is that the abuse cited by the NRA, which abuse spurred them to this bill, will not be stopped by this. Indeed, unless licensed OC was popular NOTHING BUT CONSTITUTIONAL CARRY will curb the harassment.

    By the way, anyone else notice that the NRA alerts have changed "constitutional carry" to "permitless carry"???
    Last edited by 77zach; 06-08-2011 at 01:02 PM.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  13. #13
    Regular Member RRobaldo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    And what prevents a LEO from lying now? Nothing. Not that this part has changed...

    At least before, their testimony wasn't statutorily expected as part of the body of evidence. Now it is. Their 'opinion,' be it a lie or otherwise, is all it takes now.
    Well not really. They could lie before under this law:

    "790.10 Improper exhibition of dangerous weapons or firearms.--If any person having or carrying any dirk, sword, sword cane, firearm, electric weapon or device, or other weapon shall, in the presence of one or more persons, exhibit the same in a rude, careless, angry, or threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense, the person so offending shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083."

    The new law does NOT give them anything they didn't already have. It just allows for "brief" exposure. The PROBLEM is they didn't define BRIEF!

  14. #14
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    You're right. We can now open carry rudely and briefly but not angrily.
    I'm 'angry' about this all the time. If I am carrying and accidentally expose my firearm, what then? Am I a criminal? How an a LEO testify to my mental content? How does s/he know I am angry?

    Exactly what does being Angry have to do with CC? If someone tries to kill me, I'm going to be pretty angry about it. I might even expose my weapon, point it at him, and shoot his sorry ass... Isn't that the whole point of carrying it? I can't imagine a legitimate reason to draw (expose, by nature) my weapon and fire at someone for which I would not be angry... That exposure would be brief. Only long enough to discharge the necessary rounds to stop the threat. It would be brief, and I'd be pretty effing angry...

    This is so dumb.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  15. #15
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RRobaldo View Post

    Well not really. They could lie before under this law:

    "790.10 Improper exhibition of dangerous weapons or firearms.--If any person having or carrying any dirk, sword, sword cane, firearm, electric weapon or device, or other weapon shall, in the presence of one or more persons, exhibit the same in a rude, careless, angry, or threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense, the person so offending shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083."

    The new law does NOT give them anything they didn't already have. It just allows for "brief" exposure. The PROBLEM is they didn't define BRIEF!
    By seriously altering the law, current precedent on that law is erased. Fact.

    "Exhibit" is a deliberate action. It now includes non-deliberate actions.

    All defensive use of a firearm includes brief and angry exposure of it.

    I'm going to draw an 'angry' face on my gun. Or at least grumpy... Maybe constipated? What's the difference?
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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