• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Brady Campaign suing Florida

Aknazer

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
1,760
Location
California
What official capacity?? If the government wants to make rules for official government doctors, have at it. This is a private physician, and he should be free to ask about gun ownership or not. The patient should be free to answer or not. The doctor and the patient should be free to continue or terminate their relationship as each sees fit. That is Liberty.

The one thing the doctor should not do is reveal information he learns about the patient, except as necessary to others involved in the provision of treatment. The ownership of guns would never be necessary information for treatment and, therefore, should never be passed on to anyone else.

If the law is not clear on this one point, it should be made clear. Other than that, this should be a non-issue. This law restricts Liberty in an unnecessary way. It should be struck down.

It is in the defense of Liberty for others that we most effectively protect our own.

I was saying if the doctor is acting in his official capacity. As in, if he is being one's doctor as opposed to simply asking the question to people outside of the workplace. The point is to prevent unreasonable discrimination, so I guess you feel that ALL anti-discrimination laws should be repealed and that the government shouldn't have stepped in to stop the discrimination of blacks and minorities and should have just sat back and let "the people" work it out? Or maybe you just have the ideal view of the world and would ignore how like minded people can easily collude to suppress those that they don't like. After all if most/all doctors in your area refuse to give you service unless you answer "no" to the gun question you can just take your business to a place that's a town or 10 away from where you live :rolleyes:
 

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
It is none of government's business whether a private individual discriminates against another individual based on behavior. (I'd say it is none of government's business whether the basis is behavior, race, religion, or whatever, but that is another discussion.)

"Discrimination" has become an excuse to allow government to become more intrusive, to allow them to control what we say and to just a little more. I say, NO!

I really wish that folks would stop supporting anti-Liberty laws simply because those particular laws make their personal choice of behavior easier. Laws like that got us into the situation in which we now find ourselves.
 

Uber_Olafsun

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
583
Location
Alexandria, Virginia, United States
Maybe check with tour insurance company as far as what the doc is allowed to ask and if he can discriminate based on answers under his contract with the company. If they are on the preferred providers list they agree to certain rules.
 

MKEgal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
Location
in front of my computer, WI
Uber_Olafsun said:
That is where the issue with Cho came up. He was seen but not committed to a mental institution.
Medical records are private.
If he'd been involuntarily committed, that would require Court action, which is public record.
But someone being treated for epilepsy (who might not be able safely to control a gun) is no more a prohibited person than someone being treated for depression.

Axctal said:
A better idea - sue bradys for conspiracy to deprive civil rights.
Should be the same standard to them with respect to 2A as to a KKK with respect to blacks
I like this. Throw in the 'government' of Chicago & DC & NYC & NJ & ...
 

SouthernBoy

Regular Member
Joined
May 12, 2007
Messages
5,837
Location
Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
If doctors are allowed to ask such questions, unless and until they are restricted from these intrusions, just refuse to answer. If you want you can add along with your refusal, "That is none of your concern/business/etc.".
 
Last edited:

Beretta92FSLady

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2009
Messages
5,264
Location
In My Coffee
If doctors are allowed to ask such questions, unless and until they are restricted from these intrusions, just refuse to answer. If you want you can add along with your refusal, "That is non of your concern/business/etc.".

Doctors should not be barred from asking any question they feel is necessary to ask. You have the right to answer the question however you see fit, and that includes, "that's none of your business,", or "yes, I have many firearms, and my children know how to safely handle, and use them."

I have a friend who owns firearms, and he does not allow his children to touch, or even know that firearms are in the house. Now that scares the hell out of me. Just like my friend, some doctors are misinformed, and only relate danger to the firearm, and not where danger should be relate which is firearm ignorance.

The safest home is a home with firearms, and that homes occupants, no matter the age, are familiar with the firearms, and are taught to handle the firearms safely.

After my shooting incident, my doctor freaked. I realized her perspective though, she is a doctor, and has seen bullet wounds, worked on individuals who have been shot. Firearms can be used as a tool to inflict terrible harm, even if it is for self-defense. I should have offered to take her to the range, and fire off a couple of rounds. Once she gets a whiff of the sweet smell of a spend 7.62X39 powder she would be hooked *sniggers*.
 
Last edited:

SouthernBoy

Regular Member
Joined
May 12, 2007
Messages
5,837
Location
Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
Doctors should not be barred from asking any question they feel is necessary to ask. You have the right to answer the question however you see fit, and that includes, "that's none of your business,", or "yes, I have many firearms, and my children know how to safely handle, and use them."

I have a friend who owns firearms, and he does not allow his children to touch, or even know that firearms are in the house. Now that scares the hell out of me. Just like my friend, some doctors are misinformed, and only relate danger to the firearm, and not where danger should be relate which is firearm ignorance.

The safest home is a home with firearms, and that homes occupants, no matter the age, are familiar with the firearms, and are taught to handle the firearms safely.

After my shooting incident, my doctor freaked. I realized her perspective though, she is a doctor, and has seen bullet wounds, worked on individuals who have been shot. Firearms can be used as a tool to inflict terrible harm, even if it is for self-defense. I should have offered to take her to the range, and fire off a couple of rounds. Once she gets a whiff of the sweet smell of a spend 7.62X39 powder she would be hooked *sniggers*.

You should note that I didn't suggest that doctors be barred from asking such questions. My own take is I don't like this and would probably refuse to answer unless I was in a friendly and casual conversation with the doctor. I do see the very real possibility of doctors being required to ask this a a whole battery of other questions about "questionable practices and behavior" should we ever allow socialize medicine to exist in this country. And along with that, the government could use this information for whatever insidious means they see to further control the population. I can tell you that when you are on Medicare (forced) your doctor WILL ask a battery of questions. I don't know what he does with the answers but I know the questions are asked.

I do agree with your post, especially the part about making sure your family members are familiar with firearms and know how to use them safely. I raised my daughters to understand that there was nothing mystical about firearms and that they are a tool, just like a drill or a lawnmower. Used as intended and they will serve one well. Used carelessly or worse, with evil intent, and they will make one's life a load of misery. Removing the "irresistible curiosity" from the gun is an important goal. The parent who comes home with gun, puts it on high shelf in a bedroom closet, then tells the children never to open that box might as well put a basket of candy and a chair to get to it in the closet as well. Teach the family, all of them, about the safe handing and use of firearms, or keep them securely locked in a safe for only your use (obviously they should be kept in a safe anyway, of course).
 
Last edited:

since9

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
6,964
Location
Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
If any doctor ever asks me if I own a gun, the only response I'll have for them is "What in the world does a question like that have to do with my medical care?" If they ask it again, I'll simply tell them, "I'm sorry, but you're a doctor, I'm a patient. I'm here because I sprained my ankle. Let's focus on that, shall we?"
 
Last edited:

XDFDE45

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2009
Messages
823
Location
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
Agreed. He has the right to ask. You have the right not to answer.
Exactly!! A little over a year ago my daughter had to go to the hospital because of pneumonia and while the resident was asking about what all led up to her being admitted he then asks if there are any firearms in the house and how they are stored. I told him politely it was none of his damn business to which he asked again and I repeated it was STILL NONE OF HIS DAMN BUSINESS. How in the hell is it relevant if I own and how I store a gun in my house to the fact that my daughter is being admitted for PNEUMONIA??? I talked to my gf's sister-in-law who is a doctor and she told me that the state board REQUIRES doctors to ask this question.

I remember several years ago reading in the NRA's magazine about how doctors were starting to ask patients if they owned guns and then would go into a spiel about how they are dangerous and you have a greater chance of being shot/killed with your own gun. Then they would even hand the patients pamphlets about the dangers of guns :mad:. People started complaining to the AMA and eventually the doctors in question got in trouble. So if you ever have a doctor start asking you about whether you own guns and how you store them and then go into the whole "guns are evil" speech just report them to the AMA.
 
Last edited:

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
In many states, that's illegal, particularly if you're a paying client.

Cite please. It is my understanding that some laws restrict medical professionals from refusing care under emergency circumstances, but I know of no law that prevents a doctor from refusing patients or dropping them--and well there should not be. Such would be anti-Liberty.

Some folks seem to only want the Liberties that they choose for themselves. If we would defend our Liberties, we must first defend the Liberties of others.
 
Last edited:

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
...I talked to my gf's sister-in-law who is a doctor and she told me that the state board REQUIRES doctors to ask this question...

And such would be just as anti-Liberty as a law forbidding the asking of the question. Let doctors decide for themselves what to ask and let patients decided whether or not a question is appropriate and warrants an answer.

At my last doctor's appointment, the questionnaire asked whether I "felt safe at home." My written response was "WHAT??" Nothing was said about the question or my response.

Stupid question. I hate that they ask it, but I defend their Liberty to ask it.
 

Jack House

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2010
Messages
2,611
Location
I80, USA
Why would you want to support the practice of an anti-2A doctor by continuing to utilize his services? There are few occasions where I could see not having much choice. However, in most cases you should be able to find a much better doctor that isn't going to piss all over your rights.

In most cases I'd rather be told to go somewhere else by a Bradybunch doctor than support his practice. But that is just me. :rolleyes:
 

SouthernBoy

Regular Member
Joined
May 12, 2007
Messages
5,837
Location
Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
If any doctor ever asks me if I own a gun, the only response I'll have for them is "What in the world does a question like that have to do with my medical care?" If they ask it again, I'll simply tell them, "I'm sorry, but you're a doctor, I'm a patient. I'm here because I sprained my ankle. Let's focus on that, shall we?"

That would be a good and appropriate response in my opinion.
 

We-the-People

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
2,221
Location
White City, Oregon, USA
If I'm asked about owning firearms (assuming I'm not OCing at the time) I think my response will be something along the lines of "is your wife good in bed?"

If he/she wants to ask me questions that are none of their business, well then I want some answers that are none of my business.
 

Cavalryman

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jun 6, 2010
Messages
296
Location
Anchorage, Alaska
Cite please. It is my understanding that some laws restrict medical professionals from refusing care under emergency circumstances, but I know of no law that prevents a doctor from refusing patients or dropping them--and well there should not be. Such would be anti-Liberty.

Some folks seem to only want the Liberties that they choose for themselves. If we would defend our Liberties, we must first defend the Liberties of others.

Case law requires a doctor to continue to provide care for a reasonable period of time (usually one month is considered "reasonable") while the patient finds another physician. Otherwise, in most circumstances a doctor can drop a patient for any reason or no reason at all just as the patient can drop the doctor. I don't have a problem with that.

As a doctor, I consider gun safety a part of good medical care but it's not necessary to ask the patient intrusive questions about their personal lives. For example, I don't ask if they keep toxic chemicals in the home; I say, "If you have any potentially dangerous chemicals like drain cleaner, bleach, etc., it's important that those are kept out of the reach of children and preferably locked. Similarly, guns, knives, power tools and other mechanical devices that could cause harm should be stored securely away from children." There's no reason to ask if they have any of those things; my only concern is that if they have any of them, they have thought about the potential danger and secured them accordingly. I also don't ask if they ride motorcycles, ride horses, climb mountains, or bicycle; I just explain that when pursuing those sorts of activities the smart course of action is to wear a helmet.

I understand why the Florida law became necessary but I am ambivalent about it because I generally oppose the creeping destruction of the private and personal aspect of the physician-patient relationship. It also concerns me whenever another restraint is placed upon a private business. Just another reason to never practice in Florida.
 

red_eagle

New member
Joined
Jun 5, 2011
Messages
5
Location
El paso, Tx
Keep in mind that the Brady champain has been pushing for a long time to have medical records entered into a central data base as part of "instant check". This probably has something to do with that.
 

Cavalryman

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jun 6, 2010
Messages
296
Location
Anchorage, Alaska
Keep in mind that the Brady champain has been pushing for a long time to have medical records entered into a central data base as part of "instant check". This probably has something to do with that.

Maybe, but I doubt it simply because whether or not your medical records identify you as a gun owner seems pretty irrelevant when you're standing in front of the counter attempting to buy a gun. It's really more about a small minority of rabidly anti-gun doctors trying to push their agenda through their professional status.
 
Top