Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 26

Thread: Unloaded Concealed Carry

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Albuquerque
    Posts
    3

    Unloaded Concealed Carry

    I've been open carrying for about a year and I would much rather concealed carry. The problem is that I just turned 20. I understand that the law makes provisions to not "prevent the carrying of any unloaded firearm", and I would rather bite the bullet and take the 6 extra seconds to load my XD then open carry.

    Is this legal in New Mexico?

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    412
    Quote Originally Posted by ABQJoe View Post
    I've been open carrying for about a year and I would much rather concealed carry. The problem is that I just turned 20. I understand that the law makes provisions to not "prevent the carrying of any unloaded firearm", and I would rather bite the bullet and take the 6 extra seconds to load my XD then open carry.

    Is this legal in New Mexico?

    From what I can see it is perfectly legal, except in any alcohol establishments that serve for consumption on-site. I would verify by calling the DPS.

  3. #3
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    N. Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    27,594
    Quote Originally Posted by ABQJoe View Post
    I would rather bite the bullet and take the 6 extra seconds to load my XD then open carry.

    Is this legal in New Mexico?
    Odds are you won't have that extra 6 seconds.

    • 55% of gunfights take place 0-5 feet.
    • 20% of gunfights take place in 5-10 feet.
    • 20% of gunfights take place in 10-21 feet.
    • 95% of gunfights take place in 0-21 feet. (Source- FBI)
    • The average man can cover 21 feet of ground in 1.5 seconds.
    • The average man cannot draw a gun from concealment in under 2 seconds.
    • The average gunfight is over in 3-5 seconds.

    http://www.truthtree.com/selfdefense.shtml
    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time.

    Yata hey

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Las Cruces, New Mexico, USA
    Posts
    85
    Quote Originally Posted by AH.74 View Post
    From what I can see it is perfectly legal, except in any alcohol establishments that serve for consumption on-site. I would verify by calling the DPS.

    Concealed unloaded has the same rules as open carry when it comes to alcohol sales. No concealed unloaded in any places that sell alcohol regardless of on/off premises consumption.

  5. #5
    Regular Member hammer6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Florida, United States
    Posts
    764
    Quote Originally Posted by ABQJoe View Post
    I've been open carrying for about a year and I would much rather concealed carry. The problem is that I just turned 20. I understand that the law makes provisions to not "prevent the carrying of any unloaded firearm", and I would rather bite the bullet and take the 6 extra seconds to load my XD then open carry.

    Is this legal in New Mexico?
    why on EARTH would you want to carry an unloaded gun?

    "hey mr. BG, do you mind holding for just a few seconds while i draw my gun from concealment, and then pull out my mag, load it, cock it, then point it at you? thanks much!"

    riiiiiiiigghhhhttt.....

    just enjoy OC

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Albuquerque
    Posts
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Odds are you won't have that extra 6 seconds.

    • 55% of gunfights take place 0-5 feet.
    • 20% of gunfights take place in 5-10 feet.
    • 20% of gunfights take place in 10-21 feet.
    • 95% of gunfights take place in 0-21 feet. (Source- FBI)
    • The average man can cover 21 feet of ground in 1.5 seconds.
    • The average man cannot draw a gun from concealment in under 2 seconds.
    • The average gunfight is over in 3-5 seconds.

    http://www.truthtree.com/selfdefense.shtml
    Wow, if I only have 1.5 seconds to draw a CCW and I cannot do it in under 2, then the whole notion of CCW is worthless as well!

    The point is, I didn't come here to ask for opinions. Does anyone from New Mexico have any real information on this topic?

  7. #7
    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Alexandria, VA at www.NoVA-MDSelfDefense.com
    Posts
    1,097
    Quote Originally Posted by ABQJoe View Post
    Wow, if I only have 1.5 seconds to draw a CCW and I cannot do it in under 2, then the whole notion of CCW is worthless as well!

    The point is, I didn't come here to ask for opinions. Does anyone from New Mexico have any real information on this topic?
    Wow.... snarky.

    Since you "didn't come here to ask for opinions," perhaps your time would be better spent doing your own research on the New Mexico statutes. Let us know what you discover so that we can form better "opinions."
    Last edited by JamesCanby; 06-09-2011 at 07:24 AM.

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    412
    Quote Originally Posted by castiel View Post
    Concealed unloaded has the same rules as open carry when it comes to alcohol sales. No concealed unloaded in any places that sell alcohol regardless of on/off premises consumption.
    You're right Castiel, I missed that part of 30-7-3-(A) where it says loaded or unloaded. I stand corrected, and gladly so.

    I should contact this site and tell them they're wrong. Look at the last part, that's what I saw yesterday.

    http://fbinicsystem.com/us-gun-laws-...-gun-laws.html

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    143
    Quote Originally Posted by hammer6 View Post
    why on EARTH would you want to carry an unloaded gun?

    "hey mr. BG, do you mind holding for just a few seconds while i draw my gun from concealment, and then pull out my mag, load it, cock it, then point it at you? thanks much!"

    riiiiiiiigghhhhttt.....

    just enjoy OC
    ABQJoe was just asking for advice and didn't need the sarcasm. It is correct that he can legally carry an unloaded gun and a loaded magazine separately. I went through the expensive and time consuming process to conceal carry, but at some point I may not renew and just carry a mag in one pocket and my auto in another if I don't OC.
    OC is just not appropriate in some places as we all know. I would much rather have a hidden gun that I can load in a few seconds that be unarmed. I don't buy the 1.5 seconds argument. Any potential fear that seems like a Yellow or Orange alert gives you much more than 6 seconds. Only at Red Alert are you ready to shoot.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Las Cruces, New Mexico, USA
    Posts
    85
    Quote Originally Posted by ABQJoe View Post
    Wow, if I only have 1.5 seconds to draw a CCW and I cannot do it in under 2, then the whole notion of CCW is worthless as well!

    The point is, I didn't come here to ask for opinions. Does anyone from New Mexico have any real information on this topic?
    http://www.handgunlaw.us/

    Click the state and you will find everything you ned to know. Basically, anywhere you can open carry you can conceal carry unloaded without a permit. Anywhere with any kind of alcohol is a felony (most gas stations and grocery stores and Super Walmarts for example).

  11. #11
    Regular Member hammer6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Florida, United States
    Posts
    764
    Quote Originally Posted by snoball View Post
    ABQJoe was just asking for advice and didn't need the sarcasm. It is correct that he can legally carry an unloaded gun and a loaded magazine separately. I went through the expensive and time consuming process to conceal carry, but at some point I may not renew and just carry a mag in one pocket and my auto in another if I don't OC.
    OC is just not appropriate in some places as we all know. I would much rather have a hidden gun that I can load in a few seconds that be unarmed. I don't buy the 1.5 seconds argument. Any potential fear that seems like a Yellow or Orange alert gives you much more than 6 seconds. Only at Red Alert are you ready to shoot.
    but still- why carry an unloaded gun? what exactly is the point?

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    412
    Quote Originally Posted by hammer6 View Post
    but still- why carry an unloaded gun? what exactly is the point?
    The point(s) are:

    *He's not old enough, yet, to apply for a CCW license in this state
    * He can carry concealed in this state without a permit by having it unloaded, which is his prerogative and which he wants to do
    *He does not want to carry open in certain situations and by carrying unloaded it gives him another option
    *He has his gun on him, which is better than not having his gun on him

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Stanwood, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5,431
    Carrying an unloaded gun is still better than carrying no gun at all. But, then again, a brick would be even better, you CAN carry the brick in a place that serves alcohol!

  14. #14
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    N. Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    27,594
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    Carrying an unloaded gun is still better than carrying no gun at all. But, then again, a brick would be even better, you CAN carry the brick in a place that serves alcohol!
    Airport security would not let me board with a "sample brick" being taken to a meeting with contractor. They said it was a weapon.
    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time.

    Yata hey

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Las Cruces, New Mexico
    Posts
    242
    There are over 4,000 defensive uses of a gun in the US daily, and in over 90% of cases the gun is never fired. If an attacker sees you loading a gun, it is highly improbable that they will continue the attack.

    According to 30-7-2, unloaded carry of a concealed firearm is legal, but other laws such as 30-7-3 still apply.

    Also keep in mind that 'unloaded' is not defined anywhere. It's best to be as unloaded as you can be by not having any rounds touching the gun.

    I personally would not carry a revolver in this manner, but a semi auto can be loaded a little faster than a magazine change. Just keep the mag near your weak hand in a pocket or pouch.

    Also keep in mind that retention can be an issue, as the gun must be held in one hand while the other retrieves and loads the magazine. Keep it close to the body and be prepared to make evasive maneuvers while loading.

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Albuquerque
    Posts
    3
    Thank you for the actually on topic, informative replies.

    I was really seeking confirmation on my interpretation. All evidence points to the legality of concealed, unloaded handgun carry.

    Also keep in mind that 'unloaded' is not defined anywhere. It's best to be as unloaded as you can be by not having any rounds touching the gun.
    I was actually told this by a police officer. While he wasn't sure about the legality, he mentioned that having a loaded magazine in close proximity, such as in the same pocket during pocket carry, is essentially the same thing as a loaded firearm simply because its very possible that you could have released the mag in-pocket.

    He also said when he worked in california, it was popular to carry your unloaded weapon in a locked zip-up binder. pretty peculiar.

    I personally would not carry a revolver in this manner, but a semi auto can be loaded a little faster than a magazine change. Just keep the mag near your weak hand in a pocket or pouch.
    I've been keeping the magazine in a harmless looking leatherman pouch on my weak side and the pistol in a IWB on the strong side. I think next time I hit the range I'm going to work on some draw drills to build muscle memory.

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Las Cruces, New Mexico
    Posts
    242
    Quote Originally Posted by ABQJoe View Post
    Thank you for the actually on topic, informative replies.

    I was really seeking confirmation on my interpretation. All evidence points to the legality of concealed, unloaded handgun carry.



    I was actually told this by a police officer. While he wasn't sure about the legality, he mentioned that having a loaded magazine in close proximity, such as in the same pocket during pocket carry, is essentially the same thing as a loaded firearm simply because its very possible that you could have released the mag in-pocket.

    He also said when he worked in california, it was popular to carry your unloaded weapon in a locked zip-up binder. pretty peculiar.



    I've been keeping the magazine in a harmless looking leatherman pouch on my weak side and the pistol in a IWB on the strong side. I think next time I hit the range I'm going to work on some draw drills to build muscle memory.
    The idea that you 'could have' dumped the mag doesn't count for anything.

    That's like saying somebody who is open carrying 'could have' uncovered the gun when the cop wasn't there. Or that an openly carried gun could potentially become concealed if your jacket fell over it.

    Don't ask cops for legal advice.

  18. #18
    Regular Member MrGlock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA
    Posts
    72

    concealed carry unloaded

    Before getting my CCW, I carried open loaded AND carried concealed unloaded, just with nothing in the chamber. I've gotten some hassle from cops in the past for this, but as long as you don't have a magazine in your gun (or rounds in the cylinder if you own a revolver) then TECHNICALLY the police can't do anything about it. Conceal carry laws apply to CONCEALED LOADED firearms. If you remove the ammunition from the equation, then it doesn't apply.
    Happy Hunting.

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    rio rancho NM
    Posts
    24
    hello, came across this forum post in my research...

    i am 20 and want to carry my firearm as legal as i can... however i dont like open carry for defensive purpose... the bad guys know you have a gun and can choose to shoot you first..

    on the other hand i have a year before i can get my CCW

    can anyone clarify if its legal to conceal carry a unloaded firearm with no CCW?? if i can then how do i find what NM considers loaded? i could not find a definition of what new mexico considers a loaded firearm?

    unloaded can mean 1.. no round chambered

    or 2... no magazine in gun and no round chambered...


    ps i have a semi automatic gun... no revolver.

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Stanwood, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5,431
    Quote Originally Posted by jseth View Post
    hello, came across this forum post in my research...

    i am 20 and want to carry my firearm as legal as i can... however i dont like open carry for defensive purpose... the bad guys know you have a gun and can choose to shoot you first..

    on the other hand i have a year before i can get my CCW

    can anyone clarify if its legal to conceal carry a unloaded firearm with no CCW?? if i can then how do i find what NM considers loaded? i could not find a definition of what new mexico considers a loaded firearm?

    unloaded can mean 1.. no round chambered

    or 2... no magazine in gun and no round chambered...


    ps i have a semi automatic gun... no revolver.
    First, I disagree with your assessment that it is better to carry an unloaded gun concealed than a loaded gun openly. The "bad guy will shoot you first" theory is 100% theory that nobody has ever been ever been able to present an example that has happened in real life. Police officers and security personnel wearing uniforms are normally presented saying, "SEE! These guys open carry and they were shot first!" but I would argue that they were shot because of their uniforms and the perceived ability of those persons to aprehend and/or arrest the criminal rather than only their handguns. There are no examples of Joe Citizen being caught in the convenience store or bank robbery and being shot first.

    Also, if you are attacked while concealing an unloaded firearm, exactly what do you hope to do? Ask the attacker to please wait while you retrieve your firearm from concealment and load it?

    I am currently researching New Mexico law for you, which you could do just as easily as posting on this forum:
    http://mobilepublic.nmcompcomm.us/nm...fn=default.htm

    I can't find anything in New Mexico statute or jury instructions that defines loaded or unloaded. The standard definition of unloaded means that no ammunition is present anywhere in the gun. Some states go beyond that, to specifically define loaded as any ammunition NEAR the gun.

    This is confirmed by:
    http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/newmexico.pdf

    What Does NM Consider A Loaded Firearm?
    New Mexico law does not define Loaded. Its firearm laws are full of the word Loaded or Unloaded but does not give a definition.
    Here is your New Mexico statute:

    30-7-2. Unlawful carrying of a deadly weapon. (2001)
    A. Unlawful carrying of a deadly weapon consists of carrying a concealed loaded firearm or any other type of deadly weapon anywhere, except in the following cases:
    (1) in the person's residence or on real property belonging to him as owner, lessee, tenant or licensee;
    (2) in a private automobile or other private means of conveyance, for lawful protection of the person's or another's person or property;
    (3) by a peace officer in accordance with the policies of his law enforcement agency who is certified pursuant to the Law Enforcement Training Act [29-7-1 NMSA 1978];
    (4) by a peace officer in accordance with the policies of his law enforcement agency who is employed on a temporary basis by that agency and who has successfully completed a course of firearms instruction prescribed by the New Mexico law enforcement academy or provided by a certified firearms instructor who is employed on a permanent basis by a law enforcement agency; or
    (5) by a person in possession of a valid concealed handgun license issued to him by the department of public safety pursuant to the provisions of the Concealed Handgun Carry Act [29-19-1 NMSA 1978].
    B. Nothing in this section shall be construed to prevent the carrying of any unloaded firearm.
    C. Whoever commits unlawful carrying of a deadly weapon is guilty of a petty misdemeanor.
    Given this:
    http://www.opencarry.org/?page_id=278

    Summary
    New Mexico is one of our “Gold Star” open carry states. There is complete state preemption of all firearms laws, open carry is increasingly common and law enforcement is well educated as to its legality. In addition, New Mexico has an extended domainlaw which effectively makes your vehicle an extention of your home. So you may carry openly or concealed in your vehicle.
    my personal choice would be to carry a firearm that was in a mode ready to be used immediately to defend myself with, rather than in a mode where not only would I have to retrieve it from concealment, but I would also have to prepare it for use, meanwhile a criminal is threatening to imminently end my life or the life of another victim.
    Last edited by NavyLCDR; 07-18-2013 at 11:11 PM.

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    rio rancho NM
    Posts
    24
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    First, I disagree with your assessment that it is better to carry an unloaded gun concealed than a loaded gun openly. The "bad guy will shoot you first" theory is 100% theory that nobody has ever been ever been able to present an example that has happened in real life. Police officers and security personnel wearing uniforms are normally presented saying, "SEE! These guys open carry and they were shot first!" but I would argue that they were shot because of their uniforms and the perceived ability of those persons to aprehend and/or arrest the criminal rather than only their handguns. There are no examples of Joe Citizen being caught in the convenience store or bank robbery and being shot first.

    Also, if you are attacked while concealing an unloaded firearm, exactly what do you hope to do? Ask the attacker to please wait while you retrieve your firearm from concealment and load it?

    I am currently researching New Mexico law for you, which you could do just as easily as posting on this forum:
    http://mobilepublic.nmcompcomm.us/nm...fn=default.htm

    I can't find anything in New Mexico statute or jury instructions that defines loaded or unloaded. The standard definition of unloaded means that no ammunition is present anywhere in the gun. Some states go beyond that, to specifically define loaded as any ammunition NEAR the gun.

    This is confirmed by:
    http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/newmexico.pdf



    Here is your New Mexico statute:



    Given this:
    http://www.opencarry.org/?page_id=278



    my personal choice would be to carry a firearm that was in a mode ready to be used immediately to defend myself with, rather than in a mode where not only would I have to retrieve it from concealment, but I would also have to prepare it for use, meanwhile a criminal is threatening to imminently end my life or the life of another victim.

    thanks for your detailed reply... for me i have been conceal carrying at my house for years. it takes me 0.9 seconds or less to draw my gun from concealment and rack the slide back.

    may just use open carry until i get my CCL

  22. #22
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    N. Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    27,594
    Quote Originally Posted by jseth View Post
    thanks for your detailed reply... for me i have been conceal carrying at my house for years. it takes me 0.9 seconds or less to draw my gun from concealment and rack the slide back.

    may just use open carry until i get my CCL
    How fast will you be when your dominate arm is disabled?

    Locked & loaded will always be faster than racking mid presentation and less chance of failure.
    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time.

    Yata hey

  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Clark County, NV-----------------------Mohave County, AZ
    Posts
    4,839
    Zimmerman would be dead if his handgun wasn't chambered.
    Blue & Gold Firearms Training; Clark County, NV
    Certified Concierge Instruction

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Stanwood, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5,431
    Quote Originally Posted by jseth View Post
    thanks for your detailed reply... for me i have been conceal carrying at my house for years. it takes me 0.9 seconds or less to draw my gun from concealment and rack the slide back.

    may just use open carry until i get my CCL
    A couple of things to consider....

    As Grapeshot already pointed out, can you rack the slide with one hand? What if the bad guy has one of your hands/arms incapacitated? Or, what if you just want to use your weak arm to push the bad guy away from you, or push your family/other person away to safety?

    What if your gun jams on loading? Have you practiced loading your gun under the pressure/adreniline of a life or death situation? Personally, I would rather deal with a jam in the relative safety of my home where I can load the gun calmly, take extra steps to ensure the round chambered correctly, and if the gun jams to take the time to correct the jam and determine why it occurred.

    So my question is....do the disadvantages of open carry that you perceive to exist, of which there are no examples of happening in real life, outweigh the disadvantages of carrying a gun that not only will the motion of drawing from concealment place the bad guy on high alert, but you will also have to load before you can shoot, and hope for no equipment failures.

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    rio rancho NM
    Posts
    24
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    A couple of things to consider....

    As Grapeshot already pointed out, can you rack the slide with one hand? What if the bad guy has one of your hands/arms incapacitated? Or, what if you just want to use your weak arm to push the bad guy away from you, or push your family/other person away to safety?

    What if your gun jams on loading? Have you practiced loading your gun under the pressure/adreniline of a life or death situation? Personally, I would rather deal with a jam in the relative safety of my home where I can load the gun calmly, take extra steps to ensure the round chambered correctly, and if the gun jams to take the time to correct the jam and determine why it occurred.

    So my question is....do the disadvantages of open carry that you perceive to exist, of which there are no examples of happening in real life, outweigh the disadvantages of carrying a gun that not only will the motion of drawing from concealment place the bad guy on high alert, but you will also have to load before you can shoot, and hope for no equipment failures.
    my gun hasn't jammed yet and i have put a ton of rounds through it. i clean it after every time i shoot only if its 50 rounds. i know its always a possibility that it can but it hasnt yet, if i conceal carry i wont be bothered by cops because to me concealed truly means concealed. if i conceal carry i also dont have t worry about someone trying to take my gun or something. i know thats not too likely but one of my big concern is police... i know my city and a lot of them would harass you and ask you stupid questions.

    my gun has steel sights so it is possible to rack the slide with one hand on my belt, i have seen a few different people do it on youtube, and i have practiced this as well...


    dont get me wrong i like the thought open carry and if your comfortable with it thats great it is a god given right to bear arms, and in my opinion that means openly or concealed.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •