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Thread: TOTAL abuse of the Commerce Clause

  1. #1
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    TOTAL abuse of the Commerce Clause

    For those of you who have not read 18 USC 922, it is the "Federal Gun-Free School Zone" law.

    Here's the prohibition:

    (2)(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
    Like most laws passed by Congress, they have used the commerce clause to bogusly justify their power to regulate firearms:

    (C) firearms and ammunition move easily in interstate commerce and have been found in increasing numbers in and around schools, as documented in numerous hearings in both the Committee on the Judiciary (!3) the House of Representatives and the Committee on the Judiciary of the Senate;
    ......
    I) the Congress has the power, under the interstate commerce clause and other provisions of the Constitution, to enact measures to ensure the integrity and safety of the Nation's schools by enactment of this subsection.
    Okay -- so I'll get a gun that was made in that state and has never left that state so that way I can ignore the Federal law and that will be my defense for entering a Federal School Zone, right?

    ERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR -- WRONG...read on....

    (D) in fact, even before the sale of a firearm, the gun, its component parts, ammunition, and the raw materials from which they are made have considerably moved in interstate commerce;
    WOOOOW! So even if your gun was made in state, the ore it's made of -- or the oil that made the polymer frame (or small plastic widget inside the gun) HAS come from another state/somewhere else, therefore the Federal GOvernment is declaring the power to regulate YOUR gun -- WOW!

    There is good news, as many of you know....

    (B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a
    firearm -
    (i) on private property not part of school grounds;
    (ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do
    so by the State in which the school zone is located or a
    political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or
    political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains
    such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or
    political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified
    under law to receive the license;
    .....sooo -- your Michigan Permit To Purchase/Possess or Michigan CPL will cover your ass from the Federal law -- BUT ONLY IN MICHIGAN. If you take your gun and CPL to Ohio and follow Ohio's laws -- the Feds can still bust your nuts on the Federal School Free Zone law UNLESS you also have a Concealed Weapons Permit issued to you by Ohio.....


    Now class -- who likes how the US Congress has abused our Federalism?
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  2. #2
    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    I think most of us know about this already, and are already disgusted. Many of us have wrote letters. I do however like this thread, it is good info for people that didn't know! And is a reminder to those who have not written a letter to do so, and for those who have gotten a new rep or a new senator since the last time they wrote a letter to write another (or change the name on the old letter). Its disgusting, its appalling!

    Does anyone know of any cases, of the FEDs charging anyone under the circumstances listed, by any chance? I know its possible, because its in the law. I am just curious though, does anyone know of an out-of-stater, that is licensed from their home state, but got caught up in another state, from this horse manure?
    Last edited by eastmeyers; 06-08-2011 at 09:50 PM.
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
    Bam!" - eastmeyers

    "Then said he to them, But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his sack: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
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  3. #3
    Regular Member Greyh Seer's Avatar
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    Does this law actually serve any sort of purpose?

  4. #4
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greyh Seer View Post
    Does this law actually serve any sort of purpose?
    Go within 1000' of an out of state school (K-12), call the FBI, let them know you have a gun on you and where you are -- and find out.

    I think the supposed purpose is so you don't hide in the bushes across the street from the school and snipe the playground. Because we know if you want to do that -- this law will certainly stop you -- even if those measly state murder statutes don't!
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  5. #5
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    1000 feet 333 yards... hmmm
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  6. #6
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    To say that

    I) the Congress has the power, under the interstate commerce clause and other provisions of the Constitution, to enact measures to ensure the integrity and safety of the Nation's schools by enactment of this subsection
    Begs the question that this, in any way, ensures the integrity and safety of anything, school or otherwise.

    It's like saying 'Wear a helmet when you ride your bike to ensure you don't get brain trauma'. In fact, helmets are only certified to 'work' (give protection) at very, very slow speeds, and most bicycle falls cause other injuries (wrist fractures and collarbone breaks), and if you're hit by a careless driver, no helmet is going to help you much.

  7. #7
    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
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    A helmet would help while I am banging my head against the wall! But this is one of those "feel good" laws makes anyone not the least bit familiar with what I like to call "REALLITY" to feel good.
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

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  8. #8
    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NHCGRPR45 View Post
    A helmet would help while I am banging my head against the wall! But this is one of those "feel good" laws makes anyone not the least bit familiar with what I like to call "REALLITY" to feel good.
    Ummm.... That is most laws, just sayin...
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
    Bam!" - eastmeyers

    "Then said he to them, But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his sack: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
    Luke 22:36
    God Bless

  9. #9
    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by Greyh Seer View Post
    Does this law actually serve any sort of purpose?
    NO! "Shall not be infringed" means what it says,but has been ignored for decades!
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

  10. #10
    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eastmeyers View Post
    Ummm.... That is most laws, just sayin...
    Agreed, I have been through several helmets......
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

    Michigan Concealed Pistol Instructor. Cost 80.00 With advanced techniques included free. PM for more information!

  11. #11
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    It makes helmet manufactures richer....
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  12. #12
    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NHCGRPR45 View Post
    Agreed, I have been through several helmets......
    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    It makes helmet manufactures richer....
    They are giving away free bike helmets at "law day" tomorrow, as well as all the free legal advice you can handle in "every area of law" (or something like that). I have heard about it all week on WMUZ! (also tons of stuff for kids and free food).

    I can find the website if someone wants.

    ETA: Just in case I don't check back in before tomorrow: http://www.legalnews.com/detroit/955609/ (bam)
    Last edited by eastmeyers; 06-11-2011 at 12:00 AM.
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
    Bam!" - eastmeyers

    "Then said he to them, But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his sack: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
    Luke 22:36
    God Bless

  13. #13
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by autosurgeon View Post
    1000 feet 333 yards... hmmm
    I like to think of it as a short par 4.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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    Founder's Club Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greyh Seer View Post
    Does this law actually serve any sort of purpose?
    I read a good response on a libertarian website today:

    Laws based on political considerations are made to benefit politicians.
    Last edited by Citizen; 06-11-2011 at 02:42 AM.

  15. #15
    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    I read a good response on a libertarian website today:

    Laws based on political considerations are made to benefit politicians.
    And those are the laws that the vast majority of American citizens have no clue about.They vote for someone who says what they like every 2 to 4 years,and thats all they know!The majority are decieved and are ignorant of the facts.Thats where our Freedoms and Rights have been eroded and the threat of going to jail has caused the average citizen to obey "the authorities (government rules and regulations)"! Thats why our enemy is so massive and our fight is unending.Taking the TRUTH to the ignorant and decieved is always an uphill battle! CARRY ON!
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

  16. #16
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RcbpYR5Joc
    watch this movie if you have the time. it documents the erosion.
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

  17. #17
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smellslikemichigan View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RcbpYR5Joc
    watch this movie if you have the time. it documents the erosion.
    +1 this is good stuff. If you're a "neo-con" you might call this liberal crap. You better check yourself. This is all about individual Freedom/Liberty.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamaneggs View Post
    NO! "Shall not be infringed" means what it says,but has been ignored for decades!
    +1,000,000 Notice how little 'shall not be infringed' was parsed in either the Heller or McDonald decisions. Every other phrase and individual word in the Second Amendment was analyzed with an electron microscope. Yet despite this phrase obviously being 'relevant' to whether possessing an operational firearm in the home for self-defense violated the Second Amendment, nary a mention was made.*

    *". . . shall not be infringed." seems to have only been mentioned in passing when a cite of the complete Second Amendment was called for. Just saying!

    I am curious as to whether any lower courts have since even touched the "shall not be infringed" phrase. My guess is that they simply ignored it as if it wasn't there.
    Last edited by OC4me; 06-18-2011 at 04:29 PM.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by smellslikemichigan View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RcbpYR5Joc
    watch this movie if you have the time. it documents the erosion.
    I watched it.

    Holy crap!!

  20. #20
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Wow!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    I watched it.

    Holy crap!!
    If you watched it,,, so will I! and I did.

    Now i will not sleep! It is 1 hour 13 minutes!
    It is not boring.
    You should watch it too!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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