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Thread: Carry at World Arena?

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    Regular Member Polynikes's Avatar
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    Carry at World Arena?

    My family and I will be attending the circus at the Colorado Springs World Arena tomorrow. Anyone here have any experience as to what their carry rules may be? I know this is the same facility that hosts the Gun Show of the Rockies...

    Both my wife and I would be carrying concealed, rules permitting.

    Any information is greatly appreciated.
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it." - Judge Learned Hand

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    Regular Member PikesPeakMtnMan's Avatar
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    Your guess is as good as mine.....likely CC will be just fine...but I don't know what the rules are (if I were to look them up, I'd be willing to bet that somewhere in there they prohibit firearms and weapons on the property)
    One day your life is going to flash before your eyes, make it worth watching.

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    Regular Member Kingfish's Avatar
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    Signs and rules do not carry weight of law in CO.


    A circus is not likely to do pat downs or have metal detectors.

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    Regular Member RandallFlagg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingfish View Post
    Signs and rules do not carry weight of law in CO.


    A circus is not likely to do pat downs or have metal detectors.
    Actually, they do.
    If there's a, "No Firearms," sign at the entrance, it must be adhered to.
    Why do I have a bar in my home? Because it's cheaper to stock a bar than to get a DUI.

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    Regular Member Kingfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingfish View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RandallFlagg View Post
    Signs and rules do not carry weight of law in CO.


    A circus is not likely to do pat downs or have metal detectors.
    Actually, they do.
    If there's a, "No Firearms," sign at the entrance, it must be adhered to.
    Cite please

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    Regular Member RandallFlagg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingfish View Post
    Cite please
    From the Adams County Sheriff's site:
    CARRY RESTRICTIONS
    A permit to carry a concealed handgun authorizes the permittee to carry a concealed handgun in all areas of the state except as specifically limited as follows:
    1. A person may not carry a concealed handgun into a place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by Federal Law
    2. A person may not carry a concealed handgun on to the real property, or into any improvements erected thereon, of a public elementary, middle, junior high or high school,
    3. A person may not carry a concealed handgun into a public building at which security personnel and electronic weapons screening devices are permanently in place,
    4. A person may not carry a concealed handgun where a private property owner, private tenant, private employer or private business entity disallow.
    http://www.co.adams.co.us/sheriff/ch...nfo_packet.pdf

    #4 would be applicable to this. I also remember my instructor telling us during my CCW class.

    Sorry it took so long to reply. I just got off work.
    Why do I have a bar in my home? Because it's cheaper to stock a bar than to get a DUI.

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    Regular Member Kingfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandallFlagg View Post
    4. A person may not carry a concealed handgun where a private property owner, private tenant, private employer or private business entity disallow.
    http://www.co.adams.co.us/sheriff/ch...nfo_packet.pdf

    #4 would be applicable to this. I also remember my instructor telling us during my CCW class.

    Sorry it took so long to reply. I just got off work.
    Please cite the LAW that makes not noticing or ignoring a sign a criminal offense. Not talking about being TOLD to leave but just not noticing or ignoring a sign.

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    Regular Member Polynikes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingfish View Post
    Please cite the LAW that makes not noticing or ignoring a sign a criminal offense. Not talking about being TOLD to leave but just not noticing or ignoring a sign.
    After attending last night, I can confirm that the entrances are all marked with a list of "Arena Policies," things like:

    No Weapons
    No Bottles or Containers
    Shirt and Shoes required, etc. (Those were the ones I remember off hand.)

    Pretty standard stuff, but I think that "No Weapons" is a bit vague, isn't it? There was no security at the entrances, just employees collecting tickets. They didn't even check the diaper bag we were bringing in for the kids. Inside, I saw a guy carrying a five foot walking stick with a carved knob on top, he walked right past event staff with it.

    By the way, the circus was great this year. I highly recommend it to anyone who has a chance to go.
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it." - Judge Learned Hand

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    Regular Member Kingfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polynikes View Post
    After attending last night, I can confirm that the entrances are all marked with a list of "Arena Policies," things like:

    No Weapons
    No Bottles or Containers
    Shirt and Shoes required, etc. (Those were the ones I remember off hand.)
    And if Randell is correct you should have been arrested for the baby bottle in the diaper bag.

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    Regular Member EricDailey X-NRA's Avatar
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    Trespass?

    A similar question came up in a thread reporting a store in NC with a new gun buster sign on the door. It was about Open Carry not CC. Is it a violation to walk past a sign? It seems to fall under the same restriction as trespass. The discussion ended but I don't think it was agreed about the answer. There may be room for LEO's to attempt to charge for walking past a sign but the language for the trespass statute addresses "intruders" and is undefined. I was unable to find that it is a violation of NC law to walk past a no guns sign. I might not bet my bail money on it.
    Get a DVR, a Digital Voice Recorder, carry it 24/7. It's cheap, easy and makes a good witness in Court.

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    Regular Member Kingfish's Avatar
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    18-4-504. Third degree criminal trespass.

    (1) A person commits the crime of third degree criminal trespass if such person unlawfully enters or remains in or upon premises of another.


    (2) Third degree criminal trespass is a class 1 petty offense, but:

    (a) It is a class 3 misdemeanor if the premises have been classified by the county assessor for the county in which the land is situated as agricultural land pursuant to section 39-1-102 (1.6), C.R.S.; and
    (b) It is a class 5 felony if the person trespasses on premises so classified as agricultural land with the intent to commit a felony thereon.
    http://www.michie.com/colorado/lpext...main-h.htm&cp=

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    This actually annoys me about arenas. We went to an event at one place and I checked the tickets and the entrances for "No weapons/firearms" notices. Seeing nothing I went ahead and CC'd. At the door they had a scanner to check tickets. The ticket taker asked to look in my wife's purse. She opened it, the taker glanced in it briefly and we were on our way.

    "What were they looking for?" I mused aloud. My brother said "Shooters?" I said, "Well, missed that. In a manner of speaking." He joked, "Oh, no. Those are shootAHs."

    Separately, we went to the U2 concert at Invesco and I went unarmed per a no weapons policy. I was less concerned about the concert than going to and from the car that we parked off the 16th St Mall. I did security at a U2 concert years ago, but pat downs were light, only checking hips and front pockets for glass containers.

    As we approached, I was watching to see what security was like. There were a few of Denver's finest scattered about, but no pat downs. As we go through, the ticket scanner again asked to look in my wife's "purse". "SERIOUSLY??" I thought. Her "purse" was basically an ID container. It was barely big enough for a DL, credit card, and a couple of bills. Hell, if she put a chapstick in it, the thing would have trouble closing. WHAT do they think she was smuggling? And they again barely peeked in. Any nefarious substances in the bottom wouldn't have been seen. And here I am behind her, jeans with big pockets, bulky leather sportscoat, and I'm just waved through? Seriously?

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    Regular Member RandallFlagg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingfish View Post
    Please cite the LAW that makes not noticing or ignoring a sign a criminal offense. Not talking about being TOLD to leave but just not noticing or ignoring a sign.
    CRS 18-12-214
    http://www.michie.com/colorado/lpext...8-12-214%27%5D

    (5) Nothing in this part 2 shall be construed to limit, restrict, or prohibit in any manner the existing rights of a private property owner, private tenant, private employer, or private business entity.

    This means that it's up to the, "private property owner, private tenant, private employer, or private business entity" to make these rules for these places. Violations would result in a trespassing offense. If they ask you to leave, you must comply.

    If you don't notice the sign or ignore it, I can't say. I only said that if there IS a sign, it must be followed according to CRS 18-12-214(5).
    Why do I have a bar in my home? Because it's cheaper to stock a bar than to get a DUI.

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    Regular Member EricDailey X-NRA's Avatar
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    Maybe

    Quote Originally Posted by RandallFlagg View Post
    CRS 18-12-214
    http://www.michie.com/colorado/lpext...8-12-214%27%5D

    (5) Nothing in this part 2 shall be construed to limit, restrict, or prohibit in any manner the existing rights of a private property owner, private tenant, private employer, or private business entity.

    This means that it's up to the, "private property owner, private tenant, private employer, or private business entity" to make these rules for these places. Violations would result in a trespassing offense. If they ask you to leave, you must comply.

    If you don't notice the sign or ignore it, I can't say. I only said that if there IS a sign, it must be followed according to CRS 18-12-214(5).


    Signs don't talk. Rules are not statutes. Where is the violation? A sign is a notice, but not an owner, tenant, employer or business. I only know the question. I don't know the answer. Yet. Thanks for the info.
    Get a DVR, a Digital Voice Recorder, carry it 24/7. It's cheap, easy and makes a good witness in Court.

    Triangle Open Carry Meetup
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    This is a link for a "gunz r welcome" sign.
    http://www.gunlaws.com/images/unity.gif
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    Regular Member RandallFlagg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EricDailey X-NRA View Post
    Signs don't talk. Rules are not statutes. Where is the violation? A sign is a notice, but not an owner, tenant, employer or business. I only know the question. I don't know the answer. Yet. Thanks for the info.
    For example:
    Someone wants to open a business. That person is responsible for everything to do with this business. If that person doesn't want any firearms in the business, the person must post a sign stating this at the entrance. If someone comes in with a firearm (CCW or OCW), not noticing or ignoring the sign posted (The sign being the rules laid out by the owner of the business), there is still no crime committed. If the business owner tells the entrant to leave and the entrant refuses, the violation is trespassing.

    From what I understand of it all, it's to provide a kind of bumper between gun carrying people's rights and business owner's rights.

    (Personally, if I owned a business, I would post signs reading, "FIREARMS OWNERS WELCOME! ANTI-GUN PEOPLE - NOT SO MUCH")
    Why do I have a bar in my home? Because it's cheaper to stock a bar than to get a DUI.

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    Regular Member Kingfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandallFlagg View Post
    If someone comes in with a firearm (CCW or OCW), not noticing or ignoring the sign posted (The sign being the rules laid out by the owner of the business), there is still no crime committed. If the business owner tells the entrant to leave and the entrant refuses, the violation is trespassing.
    This is correct but it is not what you said...



    Quote Originally Posted by RandallFlagg View Post
    If there's a, "No Firearms," sign at the entrance, it must be adhered to.

  17. #17
    Regular Member RandallFlagg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingfish View Post
    This is correct but it is not what you said...
    I said it, and thought I explained it in my last post.
    Anyone going into a business as a consumer must follow the rules laid out by the business owner.
    Why do I have a bar in my home? Because it's cheaper to stock a bar than to get a DUI.

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    Regular Member EricDailey X-NRA's Avatar
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    Speaking of signs...

    Quote Originally Posted by RandallFlagg View Post

    (Personally, if I owned a business, I would post signs reading, "FIREARMS OWNERS WELCOME! ANTI-GUN PEOPLE - NOT SO MUCH")

    Please view this thread.

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...s-Welcome-Here
    Get a DVR, a Digital Voice Recorder, carry it 24/7. It's cheap, easy and makes a good witness in Court.

    Triangle Open Carry Meetup
    http://www.meetup.com/r/inbound/0/0/...ry/?a=sharetxt
    This is a link for a "gunz r welcome" sign.
    http://www.gunlaws.com/images/unity.gif
    FORUM RULES (14)
    ....This web site is focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life.

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    Regular Member RandallFlagg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EricDailey X-NRA View Post
    HAAA! SWEET!

    When I went into Bass Pro Shops to take my CCW class, the guy checking my pistol shook my hand and thanked me for going for my CCW. He said it makes him feel better with more of us folks around.

    Quite uplifting.
    Why do I have a bar in my home? Because it's cheaper to stock a bar than to get a DUI.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Kingfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandallFlagg View Post
    I said it, and thought I explained it in my last post.
    Anyone going into a business as a consumer must follow the rules laid out by the business owner.
    Again...You are using the word "MUST". That is not correct. What you must do is obay a request to leave if asked. You do not have to follow "rules". Breaking a "rule" CAN get you asked to leave but so can wearing pink shoes on a Monday. Should I be jailed for wearing pink shoes on a Monday in spite of a sign saying I shan't? There is no law against wearing pink shoes on a Monday despite a sign nor is there a law saying if I don't notice a sign, I am guilty of trespass absent being asked to leave.

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    Regular Member zach's Avatar
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    If you're wearing pink shoes, you have bigger problems...


    The question I have, are you committing trespass once you enter or not until asked to vacate and do not oblige?

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    Quote Originally Posted by zach View Post
    If you're wearing pink shoes, you have bigger problems...


    The question I have, are you committing trespass once you enter or not until asked to vacate and do not oblige?
    I would imagine that since it is a business you are not trespassing until you are asked to leave and don't. Having a firearm on your person does not mean you are trespassing... I double checked Websters definition of trespass and after reading it I am not sure sure I am right. Here is one of the definitions.

    "an unlawful act committed on the person, property, or rights of another; especially : a wrongful entry on real property"

    Keep in mind this is NOT a legal definition of trespass. However if this is how courts would look at it it may be trespassing to carry on the private property of a business when they have signs posted.

    Something else to consider, this however doesn't say anything about if the person has a firearm, if signs are posted that say "No firearms" or something to that effect then that may be considered an unlawful entry. If it is or not is up to the courts, however the DA might try to base a case on it.

    18-4-504 Third Degree Criminal Trespass

    (1) A person commits the crime of third degree criminal trespass if such person unlawfully enters or remains in or upon premises of another.
    (2) Third degree criminal trespass is a class 1 petty offense, but:
    (a) It is a class 3 misdemeanor if the premises have been classified by the county assessor for the county in which the land is situated as agricultural land pursuant to section 39-1-102 (1.6), C.R.S.; and
    (b) It is a class 5 felony if the person trespasses on premises so classified as agricultural land with the intent to commit a felony thereon.
    Last edited by Bebop; 06-20-2011 at 03:06 PM.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Kingfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bebop View Post
    (1) A person commits the crime of third degree criminal trespass if such person unlawfully enters or remains in or upon premises of another.
    But it is not unlawful to carry a firearm in public at a place open to the public. Again, there is no difference between wearing pink shoes where there is a sign prohibiting it and carrying a firearm with a similar sign.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingfish View Post
    But it is not unlawful to carry a firearm in public at a place open to the public. Again, there is no difference between wearing pink shoes where there is a sign prohibiting it and carrying a firearm with a similar sign.
    A business is not a public place as you assert. A business is a building, area of a building, or land that is privately owned. The owner lets people come onto his property because he wants to sell them a good or service. If the business owner wants to keep people from carrying a firearm they can, it is their right as the owner of that property. It would also be the right of that owner to keep people from doing anything that the owner didn't want them to do, including your example of pink shoes. Most people won't do that, but they can, and some places have rules to that effect. Some places have dress codes that if you don't wear attire that fits with what the owner wants you can be kicked out. Same idea. Don't like it, do business somewhere else, that is your choice.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Kingfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bebop View Post
    A business is not a public place as you assert.
    Please quote the part of my post where I said a business is a "public place". I said it is in public and open to the public. There is a difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bebop View Post
    Some places have dress codes that if you don't wear attire that fits with what the owner wants you can be kicked out.
    Right and that is my whole point. It is not unlawful to go into that fancy steakhouse that has a sign that says gentlemen must wear a jacket if I am not wearing one. The business just need ask me to leave. SAME exact thing as carrying a gun somewhere that is posted as "no guns". Show me the law that says otherwise.

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