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Thread: Do I have to follow orders given by volunteer senior citizen patrol?

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    Regular Member fire suppressor's Avatar
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    Do I have to follow orders given by volunteer senior citizen patrol?

    I live in a town who's police department uses a volunteer senior citizen patrol car. I have never had a problem with them while open carrying in fact they are usually one of the first to smile and wave at me. I saw them again today out driving around and writing parking tickets and that got me thinking exactly how much power do they have? If they where to issue me a order would I have to follow it?
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    Regular Member LibertyDeath's Avatar
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    Pretty much no authority at all. If there is any it would be granted by the municipality or county.

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    If they werem writing parking tickets they are more than likely holding a special commission limiting them to parking tickets only. No other legal authority. Check with the city atty.

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    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    http://www.nwcn.com/news/washington/...105899238.html

    senior citizens pair up and patrol the streets, much like a licensed officer. "We are losing officers on the street because of budget cuts," he says. "This is our extra set of eyes and ears."
    Volunteer police programs are nothing new. Many police agencies across the state have them, but now is the time when many agencies are seeing more of a need to increase patrols.
    In a lot of cases, Volunteers have received training in CPR, DUI detection, traffic control and responding to missing children.

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    Regular Member fire suppressor's Avatar
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    I know it was kind of a dumb question but I wasn't sure. There uniform and car both say volunteer but otherwise look very official. I have to say to there credit we have passed each other walking on the sidewalks often and they have never had anything to say to me other than hello and hope your having a good day. One day they where out writing tickets to people in handicap parking spaces, one of them waved to me smiled and walked up. He chatted for a few minutes about the weather and went back to writing tickets. Wish we had a few more cops like that
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    They still have powers of citizen arrest, but with out RAS I'd treat them like any cop and walk away.

    The few I encountered here in B'ham were pretty nice though, they like to cruise parking lots and look for non handicaps parking in the handicap spots.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Doesn't take anything special to write a parking ticket. That's just about the only ticket these Citizen Patrol's can write.

    Most that I am familiar with are prohibited from any interaction with the public that's more than a greeting or casual conversation. Other than parking tickets they are no more than "door shakers" for vacation checks or checking license numbers on abandoned vehicles to see if they are stolen.

    As M1Gunr said, they are merely "eyes and ears". Chances are, any that "Issue Orders" will be asked to "Un-Volunteer" if anyone complained.
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    The web site for Kitsap County...http://cops.homestead.com
    They fall under the sheriff here. All I know is that they write tickets (parking).

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    I recommend you contact the Police Department and inquire into the Police Volunteer Program and most of your questions would be answered.

    Here in Yakima they have a similar program;

    VOLUNTEERS V.I.P.

    Volunteers In Policing is a group of community volunteers who assist officers with a number of duties including:

    • Handicap parking citations
    • Data entry
    • Forensic assistance
    • Case Follow up
    • Traffic control
    • Other duties as needed

    From my understanding they are very limited in what positions or authority they have, as for writing citations for handicap parking violations.
    I highly doubt the city would open themselves up to given enforcement powers that would place them in risk. That does not say some may want to try and invoke some type of authority.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    They still have powers of citizen arrest, but with out RAS I'd treat them like any cop and walk away.

    The few I encountered here in B'ham were pretty nice though, they like to cruise parking lots and look for non handicaps parking in the handicap spots.
    Thats awesome, they should have more patrols for that. I wish there was something to be done about those who pop a card on their mirror and get out and walk briskly into a store. You know the ones who it's obvious they have the card for someone else.
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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amzbrady View Post
    Thats awesome, they should have more patrols for that. I wish there was something to be done about those who pop a card on their mirror and get out and walk briskly into a store. You know the ones who it's obvious they have the card for someone else.
    Summary Execution!

    Either that or smack them in the knee and give them a legit reason for having the Handicap Permit.

    Have you ever had thoughts like that run through your head when you see someone like that gaming the system?
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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    However, you might want to realize that you might not know the whole entire circumstance. For example, you might see me pull into a handicapped parking space, pop the handicapped tag on my mirror and walk into the school/mall. I am perfectly able-bodied and have no "handicap" at all (other than being out of shape). But what I am doing is walking into the school/mall to pick up my daughter who wears a prostethic leg due to a genetic bone disorder and the use of the handicapped parking space comes into play upon our exit - not my entrance.
    And then there are the ones that pop the sign in the window, go to the store, and return all alone with their goods without a legitimate holder of the permit being involved at all.

    Since it gives them free parking on any street, that means lots of bucks when they go to Seattle.

    For those that are using it legitimately, great! For the rest, the thoughts still hold.

    So we hold the summary execution or administering of a real handicap until your exit
    Last edited by amlevin; 06-09-2011 at 06:01 PM.
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  13. #13
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    I have a HC permit, walk with a cane, but look about 35 and fairly muscular, good shape. I was pulling into a space and some gentleman started gesticulating and pointing at the HC space sign before I even had the wheels stopped rolling. It was a bit funny when my partner pulled the HC permit hang tag and hung it up. I understand his fretting over it. It's really rampant in places like San Fran.

    Also remember that the HC permit is issued to people who don't show an obvious defect (could be a heart condition) like a limp or needing a wheelchair. So it's best, I suppose to try to mind one's own business. Here, you have to carry a card as well as that placard.

    $.02

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    However, you might want to realize that you might not know the whole entire circumstance. For example, you might see me pull into a handicapped parking space, pop the handicapped tag on my mirror and walk into the school/mall. I am perfectly able-bodied and have no "handicap" at all (other than being out of shape). But what I am doing is walking into the school/mall to pick up my daughter who wears a prostethic leg due to a genetic bone disorder and the use of the handicapped parking space comes into play upon our exit - not my entrance.
    Reminds me of that scene in Me Myself and Irene.......couldn't find a clip.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  15. #15
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    I have a permanent HCP as well and have seen others jump out and run in and then back out again and off they go.
    I have also seen the driver pull in an park while the passenger jumps out and runs in and out along with drivers that have brought someone disabled and sometimes I wish law enforcement would stop and ID them but I have never seen or have I ever been asked to see my ID card that matches the Plate or Place Card.

    If I take someone to the store that is healthy and I am not going in, I will not use a disabled spot regardless of the whining in the other seat.

    And yes I have called on those it was very apparent no one in the car was disabled.

    Types of conditions that qualify

    You may receive disabled parking privileges if you have a disability that meets at least 1 of the following criteria:

    • You canít walk 200 feet without stopping to rest.
    • Your ability to walk is severely limited due to an arthritic, neurological, or orthopedic condition.
    • Youíre so severely disabled that you canít walk without the use of or assistance from a brace, cane, another person, prosthetic device, wheelchair, or other assistive device.
    • You use portable oxygen.
    • Youíre restricted by lung disease to such an extent that forced expiratory respiratory volume when measured by spirometry is less than 1 liter/second or the arterial oxygen tension is less than 60 mm/hg on room air at rest.
    • Youíre impaired by cardiovascular disease or cardiac condition to the extent that your functional limitations are classified as Class III or IV under standards accepted by the American Heart Association.
    • You have a disability resulting from an acute sensitivity to automobile emissions which limits or impairs your ability to walk. Your physician, physician assistant, or advanced registered nurse practitioner must document that the disability is comparable in severity to the others listed above.
    • Youíre legally blind and have limited mobility.
    • You have acute sensitivity to light associated with a form of porphyria that would significantly benefit from a decrease in exposure to light. Porphyria refers to a group of inheritable metabolic disorders in which exposure to light can result in burning, blistering, swelling, and scarring of the skin.
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    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Why does everyone worry about others?
    I don't care who parks in the HC spots, it's not my responsibility to police them.
    I park where I am able to park and walk to where I am going.
    Live Free or Die!

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Why does everyone worry about others?
    I don't care who parks in the HC spots, it's not my responsibility to police them.
    I park where I am able to park and walk to where I am going.
    Not all are fortunate to be able to walk where they are or want to go, it becomes a different perspective.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Why does everyone worry about others?
    I don't care who parks in the HC spots, it's not my responsibility to police them.
    I park where I am able to park and walk to where I am going.
    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    Not all are fortunate to be able to walk where they are or want to go, it becomes a different perspective.
    No, I absolutely understand the different perspective by those who are less fortunate.

    I do not understand why so many who are capable complain.
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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    No, I absolutely understand the different perspective by those who are less fortunate.

    I do not understand why so many who are capable complain.
    The first thing that comes to mind for me is I see elderly or disabled people that need it and are less likely to stand up for themselves, maybe it is a protective thing wanting to help those who are less able to stand up for themselves? Just a thought.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    No, I absolutely understand the different perspective by those who are less fortunate.

    I do not understand why so many who are capable complain.
    Probably those that play by the rules don't care for those that don't. Oh ya, and the person that doesn't need the HC spot is keeping someone that does from using it. My moms 80 and can't walk across a room without running out of breath. If she's got to walk across a parking lot because some jack-hole took the last HC spot and didn't need it, it ticks me off. Call me silly, but expecting people to do the right thing shouldn't be looked down upon.

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    Regular Member 1911er's Avatar
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    HC plates

    Thanks to all of you who do watch for people abusing the hang cards as I have permanent HC plates because of A stroke I also walk with the assistance of A cane. And it just yanks my chain when I see someone pull in to a HC spot hang a card on the mirror and run into the store and come back out throw something in the backseat and take off like they are gonna miss A ballgame or whatever. And I would trade all the up close parking for the full use of my legs back any day o the week.
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    And I would trade all the up close parking for the full use of my legs back any day o the week.
    You're not alone there.

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    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    Before I got my HC permit, I'd park where there was a space and an empty cart nearby. If I can hold the cart and lean forward I can walk pretty quickly. I put my cane in the cart.

    The furthest I can walk with the cane over moderately rolling hill terrain is under a mile (unless I rest for 5 min). With a shopping cart, I can walk for about 30-45 min, resting elbows on the cart. My nerve damage (?) affects me most when trying to stand fully upright, on one side. But I look much younger than 60 (the >55 community where I live I always hear 'who are you visiting' and 'you can't be a resident, you're obviously not 50' (said snarkily).

    One lady challenged me and my partner and castigated us for riding our bikes around the community and wearing lycra bike bibs and jerseys (at the time it was Fall and we had on full tights, long sleeves, gloves, balaclava and sunglasses - you couldn't have been more 'fully dressed' and we're both lean no bulges. This woman was ***moderator deleted*** and she's talking about 'how someone looks' sheesh).

    Anyway, I digress, but I get looks all the time when I pull in until they see me get out with a cane.

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    Regular Member CharleyCherokee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Reminds me of that scene in Me Myself and Irene.......couldn't find a clip.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3ODvnSaFQs
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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fire suppressor View Post
    I live in a town who's police department uses a volunteer senior citizen patrol car. I have never had a problem with them while open carrying in fact they are usually one of the first to smile and wave at me. I saw them again today out driving around and writing parking tickets and that got me thinking exactly how much power do they have? If they where to issue me a order would I have to follow it?
    What kind of orders would you expect coming from them? Let me see your Handicap Parking Identification Card, move your car you are blocking a handicap parking spot? or something more drastic like reach for the sky and hold you at bay with their ticket book?
    You know I was funnin with you but what are your concerns with them, disarming you?
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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