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Thread: insurance

  1. #1
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    insurance

    Anybody look into the insurance offered by USCCA? I wonder if it would be something worthwhile.

    OT OCed last several days at the usual places... grocery store, parts store, credit union, Tea Party meeting, clerks office to pay taxes and finding some time to OC on the HD.springerdave.

  2. #2
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    I am considering it. I have to look closer at the details. This could be a good thread for getting opinions.
    Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
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  3. #3
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    This is just an opinion but in Michigan our Castle Law is definitive, in any justifiable shooting the perp, his family, friends, girl Friend or whoever cannot bring suit against the shooter, should they attempt any legal actions must be paid for on behalf of both parties by them.

    If it is not a justifiable shooting then you go to jail and have a lot worse problems to look forward to.

    Not all states are like this and in those locations this could be a good thing.

  4. #4
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheldon View Post
    This is just an opinion but in Michigan our Castle Law is definitive, in any justifiable shooting the perp, his family, friends, girl Friend or whoever cannot bring suit against the shooter, should they attempt any legal actions must be paid for on behalf of both parties by them.

    If it is not a justifiable shooting then you go to jail and have a lot worse problems to look forward to.

    Not all states are like this and in those locations this could be a good thing.
    A MGO attoneys opinion.

    NOTHING prevents a lawsuit in a SD shooting. Castle Doctrine merely provides a defense and allows the collection of legal fees in cases of frivolous SD shooting suits.

    What would happen if an inmate (with nothing to lose) sues you over shooting him?

    Yes, the case may be ultimately thrown out...

    Yes, the inmate may be found liable for your attorney fees...

    BUT

    The inmate could end up owing you $$$$$$$ for the legal fees you just spent defending the action and good luck collecting it!

    Castle Doctrine is great but it isn't a blanket shield. Also, be careful when applying it. Your house? Yes, Castle Doctrine applies. Your non-attached garage? NO.


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    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  5. #5
    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Isn't a lawyers job to CYA? And doesn't the Castle Doctrine (in layman's terms) say you can stand your ground anywhere your legally allowed to be, so garage would apply, yes?
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  6. #6
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    Yes, if you can afford one.

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    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
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    Correct me if I am wrong but. So far as I understand the way it works is if you have to defend yourself and you are to be within the law the person/family cannot sue you for wrongful death or anything related. Hence I shoot a BG in a walmart parking lot case goes before the prosecutor he/she says yup justified, then I do have a legal "blanket" of safety. from lawsuits against said dirtbag and anything related to that one incident.
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

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  8. #8
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    that's what I thought as well, but one of the lawyers over on MGO thought otherwise. I will defer to his opinion.

  9. #9
    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eastmeyers View Post
    Isn't a lawyers job to CYA? And doesn't the Castle Doctrine (in layman's terms) say you can stand your ground anywhere your legally allowed to be, so garage would apply, yes?
    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%2...0AND%20Defense (bam)
    Quote Originally Posted by SELF-DEFENSE ACT (EXCERPT)
    Act 309 of 2006

    780.972 Use of deadly force by individual not engaged in commission of crime; conditions.Sec. 2.
    (1) An individual who has not or is not engaged in the commission of a crime at the time he or she uses deadly force may use deadly force against another individual anywhere he or she has the legal right to be with no duty to retreat if either of the following applies:
    (a) The individual honestly and reasonably believes that the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent the imminent death of or imminent great bodily harm to himself or herself or to another individual.
    (b) The individual honestly and reasonably believes that the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent the imminent sexual assault of himself or herself or of another individual.
    (2) An individual who has not or is not engaged in the commission of a crime at the time he or she uses force other than deadly force may use force other than deadly force against another individual anywhere he or she has the legal right to be with no duty to retreat if he or she honestly and reasonably believes that the use of that force is necessary to defend himself or herself or another individual from the imminent unlawful use of force by another individual.
    Last edited by eastmeyers; 06-10-2011 at 01:41 AM.
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  10. #10
    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NHCGRPR45 View Post
    Correct me if I am wrong but. So far as I understand the way it works is if you have to defend yourself and you are to be within the law the person/family cannot sue you for wrongful death or anything related. Hence I shoot a BG in a walmart parking lot case goes before the prosecutor he/she says yup justified, then I do have a legal "blanket" of safety. from lawsuits against said dirtbag and anything related to that one incident.
    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%2...0AND%20Defense (bam)
    Quote Originally Posted by REVISED JUDICATURE ACT OF 1961 (EXCERPT)
    Act 236 of 1961

    600.2922b Use of deadly force or other than deadly force by individual in self-defense; immunity from civil liability.Sec. 2922b.
    An individual who uses deadly force or force other than deadly force in self-defense or in defense of another individual in compliance with section 2 of the self-defense act is immune from civil liability for damages caused to either of the following by the use of that deadly force or force other than deadly force:
    (a) The individual against whom the use of deadly force or force other than deadly force is authorized.
    (b) Any individual claiming damages arising out of injury to or the death of the individual described in subdivision (a), based upon his or her relationship to that individual.
    Last edited by eastmeyers; 06-10-2011 at 01:46 AM.
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
    Bam!" - eastmeyers

    "Then said he to them, But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his sack: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
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  11. #11
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    You can't stop them from suing you, but you should get the case bounced at summary disposition and get awarded court/attorney costs. That veins said if the suer is penniless -- well ever hear of blood from a turnip?
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

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  12. #12
    Regular Member StingMP9's Avatar
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    It sounds like a good idea to me. I may in the future move to other states that don't tout such a castle doctrine from prosecution and law suits can bankrupt anyone. I wonder if such insurance would have gotten a decent lawyer to keep Jeff Gerritt out of prison for those bologna charges in Detroit for his self defense shooting.
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  13. #13
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    BIG word of warning!!!!! Just because you have been awarded attorney's fees does not mean you will be able to collect them!!!!! (BTW: he sued me, and he lost)

    I know, I am out over $5K. Judge says the other guy has to pay...but as my dad said many years ago..."you cannot get blood out of a turnip".

    If the person has no assets you can seize, you will be out of luck.

  14. #14
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    A MGO attoneys opinion.

    NOTHING prevents a lawsuit in a SD shooting. Castle Doctrine merely provides a defense and allows the collection of legal fees in cases of frivolous SD shooting suits.

    What would happen if an inmate (with nothing to lose) sues you over shooting him?

    Yes, the case may be ultimately thrown out...

    Yes, the inmate may be found liable for your attorney fees...

    BUT

    The inmate could end up owing you $$$$$$$ for the legal fees you just spent defending the action and good luck collecting it!

    Castle Doctrine is great but it isn't a blanket shield. Also, be careful when applying it. Your house? Yes, Castle Doctrine applies. Your non-attached garage? NO.


    --Moderator Note & Edit--
    Generally typing in all caps or excessively large bold type is considered yelling
    .
    You need to re read MI Castle law, it applies to any place you have a legal right to be... N yes they can sue, and yes you can defer the cost to the accuser AKA they get the bill not you...
    Last edited by Sheldon; 06-10-2011 at 02:35 PM.

  15. #15
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    See this thread, that way, you arent speaking third hand.

    http://www.migunowners.org/forum/sho...78#post1292778

  16. #16
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    I rather save the money into a separate account and have a second amendment Attorney on retainer instead.
    -I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you screw with me, I'll kill you all.
    -Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
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  17. #17
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheldon View Post
    You need to re read MI Castle law, it applies to any place you have a legal right to be... N yes they can sue, and yes you can defer the cost to the accuser AKA they get the bill not you...
    You should reread the post I posted. If they don't have money you are still stuck with the legal bills.
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    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  18. #18
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    well, here's your correction

    Quote Originally Posted by NHCGRPR45 View Post
    Correct me if I am wrong but. So far as I understand the way it works is if you have to defend yourself and you are to be within the law the person/family cannot sue you for wrongful death or anything related. Hence I shoot a BG in a walmart parking lot case goes before the prosecutor he/she says yup justified, then I do have a legal "blanket" of safety. from lawsuits against said dirtbag and anything related to that one incident.
    Sadly, you do not have a "blanket" of safety. At least in many states. In many jurisdictions in the country, you can be completely justified in a case of self defense, have no criminal charges pressed against you by the prosecuting attorney, and still be dragged in to civil court for "wrongful death" (or something like that) by the dead thug's family, fellow crack heads, girl friends, etc.

    Castle doctrines generally provide no protection or immunity from civil suits.
    roN

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6L6GC View Post
    Sadly, you do not have a "blanket" of safety. At least in many states. In many jurisdictions in the country, you can be completely justified in a case of self defense, have no criminal charges pressed against you by the prosecuting attorney, and still be dragged in to civil court for "wrongful death" (or something like that) by the dead thug's family, fellow crack heads, girl friends, etc.

    Castle doctrines generally provide no protection or immunity from civil suits.
    roN
    Ours does.
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

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  20. #20
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    I would love to be able to afford the USCCA policy but the wife an I live payday to payday and there is no way we can afford what they ask. But I wish I could
    A gun Owner Is A Citizen
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  21. #21
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NHCGRPR45 View Post
    Ours does.
    It can be a defense from losing a suit, but it wont stop you from being sued.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  22. #22
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    One thing to consider....if you are tried and found not guilty, the level of doubt for civil trials is substantially lower.....Preponderance of Evidence (civil) v Beyond Reasonable Doubt (criminal).

    Just think of OJ's Not Guilty verdict in his murder trial, then found liable in civil court.

    Bottom line, anyone can sue anyone and you can bet a criminals survivors are going to be shopping for a personal injury attorney.
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
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  23. #23
    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
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    600.2922b Use of deadly force or other than deadly force by individual in self-defense; immunity from civil liability.Sec. 2922b.
    An individual who uses deadly force or force other than deadly force in self-defense or in defense of another individual in compliance with section 2 of the self-defense act is immune from civil liability for damages caused to either of the following by the use of that deadly force or force other than deadly force:
    (a) The individual against whom the use of deadly force or force other than deadly force is authorized.
    (b) Any individual claiming damages arising out of injury to or the death of the individual described in subdivision (a), based upon his or her relationship to that individual.

    Let them sue. The above is pretty clear.
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

    Michigan Concealed Pistol Instructor. Cost 80.00 With advanced techniques included free. PM for more information!

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