insurance

springerdave · Jun 9, 2011

Anybody look into the insurance offered by USCCA? I wonder if it would be something worthwhile.

OT OCed last several days at the usual places... grocery store, parts store, credit union, Tea Party meeting, clerks office to pay taxes and finding some time to OC on the HD.springerdave.

FS23 · Jun 9, 2011

I am considering it. I have to look closer at the details. This could be a good thread for getting opinions.

Sheldon · Jun 9, 2011

This is just an opinion but in Michigan our Castle Law is definitive, in any justifiable shooting the perp, his family, friends, girl Friend or whoever cannot bring suit against the shooter, should they attempt any legal actions must be paid for on behalf of both parties by them.

If it is not a justifiable shooting then you go to jail and have a lot worse problems to look forward to.

Not all states are like this and in those locations this could be a good thing.

Venator · Jun 9, 2011

Sheldon said:
This is just an opinion but in Michigan our Castle Law is definitive, in any justifiable shooting the perp, his family, friends, girl Friend or whoever cannot bring suit against the shooter, should they attempt any legal actions must be paid for on behalf of both parties by them.

If it is not a justifiable shooting then you go to jail and have a lot worse problems to look forward to.

Not all states are like this and in those locations this could be a good thing.

A MGO attoneys opinion.

NOTHING prevents a lawsuit in a SD shooting. Castle Doctrine merely provides a defense and allows the collection of legal fees in cases of frivolous SD shooting suits.

What would happen if an inmate (with nothing to lose) sues you over shooting him?

Yes, the case may be ultimately thrown out...

Yes, the inmate may be found liable for your attorney fees...

BUT

The inmate could end up owing you $$$$$$$ for the legal fees you just spent defending the action and good luck collecting it!

Castle Doctrine is great but it isn't a blanket shield. Also, be careful when applying it. Your house? Yes, Castle Doctrine applies. Your non-attached garage? NO.

--Moderator Note & Edit--
Generally typing in all caps or excessively large bold type is considered yelling.

eastmeyers · Jun 9, 2011

Isn't a lawyers job to CYA? And doesn't the Castle Doctrine (in layman's terms) say you can stand your ground anywhere your legally allowed to be, so garage would apply, yes?

stainless1911 · Jun 9, 2011

Yes, if you can afford one.

NHCGRPR45 · Jun 9, 2011

Correct me if I am wrong but. So far as I understand the way it works is if you have to defend yourself and you are to be within the law the person/family cannot sue you for wrongful death or anything related. Hence I shoot a BG in a walmart parking lot case goes before the prosecutor he/she says yup justified, then I do have a legal "blanket" of safety. from lawsuits against said dirtbag and anything related to that one incident.

stainless1911 · Jun 9, 2011

that's what I thought as well, but one of the lawyers over on MGO thought otherwise. I will defer to his opinion.

eastmeyers · Jun 10, 2011

eastmeyers said:
Isn't a lawyers job to CYA? And doesn't the Castle Doctrine (in layman's terms) say you can stand your ground anywhere your legally allowed to be, so garage would apply, yes?

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%28nkrgqw45tvdei5vxigkfaezl%29%29/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-780-972&highlight=Self%20AND%20Defense (bam)

SELF-DEFENSE ACT (EXCERPT) Act 309 of 2006 said:
780.972 Use of deadly force by individual not engaged in commission of crime; conditions.Sec. 2.
(1) An individual who has not or is not engaged in the commission of a crime at the time he or she uses deadly force may use deadly force against another individual anywhere he or she has the legal right to be with no duty to retreat if either of the following applies:
(a) The individual honestly and reasonably believes that the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent the imminent death of or imminent great bodily harm to himself or herself or to another individual.
(b) The individual honestly and reasonably believes that the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent the imminent sexual assault of himself or herself or of another individual.
(2) An individual who has not or is not engaged in the commission of a crime at the time he or she uses force other than deadly force may use force other than deadly force against another individual anywhere he or she has the legal right to be with no duty to retreat if he or she honestly and reasonably believes that the use of that force is necessary to defend himself or herself or another individual from the imminent unlawful use of force by another individual.

eastmeyers · Jun 10, 2011

NHCGRPR45 said:
Correct me if I am wrong but. So far as I understand the way it works is if you have to defend yourself and you are to be within the law the person/family cannot sue you for wrongful death or anything related. Hence I shoot a BG in a walmart parking lot case goes before the prosecutor he/she says yup justified, then I do have a legal "blanket" of safety. from lawsuits against said dirtbag and anything related to that one incident.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%28nkrgqw45tvdei5vxigkfaezl%29%29/mileg.aspx?page=getobject&objectname=mcl-600-2922b&query=on&highlight=Self%20AND%20Defense (bam)

REVISED JUDICATURE ACT OF 1961 (EXCERPT) Act 236 of 1961 said:
600.2922b Use of deadly force or other than deadly force by individual in self-defense; immunity from civil liability.Sec. 2922b.
An individual who uses deadly force or force other than deadly force in self-defense or in defense of another individual in compliance with section 2 of the self-defense act is immune from civil liability for damages caused to either of the following by the use of that deadly force or force other than deadly force:
(a) The individual against whom the use of deadly force or force other than deadly force is authorized.
(b) Any individual claiming damages arising out of injury to or the death of the individual described in subdivision (a), based upon his or her relationship to that individual.

TheQ · Jun 10, 2011

You can't stop them from suing you, but you should get the case bounced at summary disposition and get awarded court/attorney costs. That veins said if the suer is penniless -- well ever hear of blood from a turnip?

StingMP9 · Jun 10, 2011

It sounds like a good idea to me. I may in the future move to other states that don't tout such a castle doctrine from prosecution and law suits can bankrupt anyone. I wonder if such insurance would have gotten a decent lawyer to keep Jeff Gerritt out of prison for those bologna charges in Detroit for his self defense shooting.

hermannr · Jun 10, 2011

BIG word of warning!!!!! Just because you have been awarded attorney's fees does not mean you will be able to collect them!!!!! (BTW: he sued me, and he lost)

I know, I am out over $5K. Judge says the other guy has to pay...but as my dad said many years ago..."you cannot get blood out of a turnip".

If the person has no assets you can seize, you will be out of luck.

Sheldon · Jun 10, 2011

Venator said:
A MGO attoneys opinion.

NOTHING prevents a lawsuit in a SD shooting. Castle Doctrine merely provides a defense and allows the collection of legal fees in cases of frivolous SD shooting suits.

What would happen if an inmate (with nothing to lose) sues you over shooting him?

Yes, the case may be ultimately thrown out...

Yes, the inmate may be found liable for your attorney fees...

BUT

The inmate could end up owing you $$$$$$$ for the legal fees you just spent defending the action and good luck collecting it!

Castle Doctrine is great but it isn't a blanket shield. Also, be careful when applying it. Your house? Yes, Castle Doctrine applies. Your non-attached garage? NO.

--Moderator Note & Edit--
Generally typing in all caps or excessively large bold type is considered yelling.

You need to re read MI Castle law, it applies to any place you have a legal right to be... N yes they can sue, and yes you can defer the cost to the accuser AKA they get the bill not you...

stainless1911 · Jun 10, 2011

See this thread, that way, you arent speaking third hand.

http://www.migunowners.org/forum/showthread.php?p=1292778#post1292778

zack991 · Jun 10, 2011

I rather save the money into a separate account and have a second amendment Attorney on retainer instead.

Venator · Jun 10, 2011

Sheldon said:
You need to re read MI Castle law, it applies to any place you have a legal right to be... N yes they can sue, and yes you can defer the cost to the accuser AKA they get the bill not you...

You should reread the post I posted. If they don't have money you are still stuck with the legal bills.

6L6GC · Jun 10, 2011

well, here's your correction

NHCGRPR45 said:
Correct me if I am wrong but. So far as I understand the way it works is if you have to defend yourself and you are to be within the law the person/family cannot sue you for wrongful death or anything related. Hence I shoot a BG in a walmart parking lot case goes before the prosecutor he/she says yup justified, then I do have a legal "blanket" of safety. from lawsuits against said dirtbag and anything related to that one incident.

Sadly, you do not have a "blanket" of safety. At least in many states. In many jurisdictions in the country, you can be completely justified in a case of self defense, have no criminal charges pressed against you by the prosecuting attorney, and still be dragged in to civil court for "wrongful death" (or something like that) by the dead thug's family, fellow crack heads, girl friends, etc.

Castle doctrines generally provide no protection or immunity from civil suits.
roN

NHCGRPR45 · Jun 10, 2011

6L6GC said:
Sadly, you do not have a "blanket" of safety. At least in many states. In many jurisdictions in the country, you can be completely justified in a case of self defense, have no criminal charges pressed against you by the prosecuting attorney, and still be dragged in to civil court for "wrongful death" (or something like that) by the dead thug's family, fellow crack heads, girl friends, etc.

Castle doctrines generally provide no protection or immunity from civil suits.
roN

Ours does.:banana:

RogueWarrior · Jun 11, 2011

I would love to be able to afford the USCCA policy but the wife an I live payday to payday and there is no way we can afford what they ask. But I wish I could

insurance

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter

Regular Member

Banned

Regular Member

Banned

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Banned

Regular Member

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter

Regular Member

Regular Member

New member