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Thread: OC/CC for cab drivers

  1. #1
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    OC/CC for cab drivers

    I went to the police dept. yesterday to apply for a Cab Driver’s Permit. When I entered the “police station”, I didn’t know if it was considered a “secure area” because I had to ring a bell to gain entrance and the door was opened by someone inside the office. I was CCing at the time. As a courtesy, I showed the officer my CHP and made a gesture toward my pistol (still concealed) on my left hip. I said “I just wanted to let you know because I didn’t know if this was a secure area or not”. The officer said “no problem, just don’t bring it when you come back.”
    At that point, I began to wonder if “cabbies” were prohibited from carrying (and if there was a City Code that stated such) or maybe it was a “secure area” and she allowed me to keep it while I was there, but couldn’t bring it when I came back. Does the “secure area” of a police department have to be “posted” or can any LEO just tell OCers (or CCers) not to carry in the building and that’s the last word. I’ve seen posts about this in Fairfax and seen the YouTube video from some OCers that actually confronted LEOs about carrying in the “lobby” of a PD.

    The police sub-station is in an area well-populated by folks just “hanging around looking for something to do”. When I first drove up, I transitioned from OC to CC to keep a “low profile” and maintain tactical advantage should it be necessary. I wasn’t carrying a BUG, but would have been more comfortable doing so.
    When I go back for my “interview”, I will comply with the officer’s “request” because I want this permit. Another thought dawned on me, though…
    Do most cab companies prohibit their drivers from carrying on the job?
    Being disabled, there aren’t many things I can do for employment. I’m not even sure how long I will be able to do this one (if I decide to do it).
    Anyone have any thoughts/input on OC or CC as a cabbie? I thought I remember an OCDO “member” (or two) being cab drivers...
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

  2. #2
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    The officer was incorrect - unless they had you walking through a holding cell area, the police station is not a secure area, and it certainly isn't a prohibited place for you to carry.

    There are no laws prohibiting cabbies from carrying, and even if Fairfax had such an ordinance, it would be invalidated by pre-emption.
    Last edited by ProShooter; 06-10-2011 at 11:46 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    The officer was incorrect - unless they had you walking through a holding cell area, the police station is not a secure area, and it certainly isn't a prohibited place for you to carry.

    There are no laws prohibiting cabbies from carrying, and even if Fairfax had such an ordinance, it would be invalidated by pre-emption.
    I know for a certainty some of the cities around here have ordinances against carrying a firearm in a cab (Danville to be specific). Of course this ordinance is unenforceable for those who know that it's unenforceable. This is one of the myriad of unenforceable codes I found when I started my search for bad local ordinances a month or so back.

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    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    I wanted to know something like this, in the next year or two I have to ride along with police officers for so many hours for my degree, Thats everyone and my teachers telling me.
    Last edited by ocholsteroc; 06-10-2011 at 12:40 PM.
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ocholsteroc View Post
    I wanted to know something like this, in the next year or two I have to ride along with police officers for so many hours for my degree, Thats everyone and my teachers telling me.
    You cannot carry while doing a ride along.

  6. #6
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    You have to be interviewed to drive a Cab

    When I was 20 (Dark ages) I drove one one summer. I got a Chauffeurs addition to my drivers license and went to work that night.
    I was really glad to go back to school. Nasty job!
    Last edited by peter nap; 06-10-2011 at 12:48 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran Dutch Uncle's Avatar
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    I understand that there are no VA codes forbidding a cab driver from carrying, but I strongly suspect that most cab companies (being private entities) forbid their drivers from carrying because of "liability concerns". Heck, maybe they just want their ridership to have "a pleasant riding experience" or some other pap. If a driver is found to be carrying, about all they could do is fire him, but he wouldn't be breaking any laws.

  8. #8
    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hunter45 View Post
    You cannot carry while doing a ride along.
    What law is that? doesn't it violate preemption?
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

  9. #9
    Regular Member The Wolfhound's Avatar
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    I expect you sign more than a few forms BEFORE riding along. Probably not even fine print prohibiting it. Straight out prohibited would be my guess. Tons of legal issues in a city/county vehicle and a non "trained" gun carrier.

  10. #10
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ocholsteroc View Post
    What law is that? doesn't it violate preemption?
    Ride alongs are optional. The cops don't have to let someone ride with them so they can set the rules.

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    Hunter is right, in my dept and every other I have heard from, there are strict rules against carrying any weapon on a ride along (gun, pocketknife, taser). It's a huge liability for the dept and the person doing the ride along. There is no "right" to ride along with police so the dept can set their own rules (clothing worn, background check, etc).

    On a side note, if I have someone that seems level headed and familiar with guns, I will tell em how to get out the assault rifle out if the lock and only do so if we are getting shot at.

    I am not familiar with cab ordinances in my jurisdiction, there is a special inspector for that. I will say that can drivers have a very dangerous job and get robbed often. Off duty I have talked to many can drivers that carry and I believe is very necessary in their line of work.

    If that station is not connected to the courts or has cells, then that officer is wrong. I'd double check and give his supervisor a call.
    Last edited by NovaCop10; 06-10-2011 at 02:40 PM. Reason: Little more added

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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    I appreciate everyone's input. I'm not going to "make any stink" until AFTER I get my permit. NOVA is correct... There is only ONE officer assigned as the Cab Inspector and I'd rather not annoy that officer until AFTER I get what I need. Even after I get it, is it worth raising a stink and annoying this officer just to prove a point? If that is the only inspector in that jurisdiction, then I would probably like to remain low-profile or as invisible as I can. It stands to reason that the inspector could very well make a cabbie's life uncomfortable if they wanted to...
    Last edited by MSC 45ACP; 06-10-2011 at 03:48 PM.
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

  13. #13
    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    yesterday to apply for a Cab Driver’s Permit
    Are you going to be workign for a company or just on your own with your own permit? If its YOUR own car I wouldn't see a problem with it?
    Last edited by ocholsteroc; 06-10-2011 at 04:34 PM.
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

  14. #14
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    For a company. There are far too many hoops to jump through to be a "gypsy" cab.
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

  15. #15
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSC 45ACP View Post
    I appreciate everyone's input. I'm not going to "make any stink" until AFTER I get my permit. NOVA is correct... There is only ONE officer assigned as the Cab Inspector and I'd rather not annoy that officer until AFTER I get what I need. Even after I get it, is it worth raising a stink and annoying this officer just to prove a point? If that is the only inspector in that jurisdiction, then I would probably like to remain low-profile or as invisible as I can. It stands to reason that the inspector could very well make a cabbie's life uncomfortable if they wanted to...
    You could just OC. Let them tell you to leave, or whatever, then at that point (if it's the same person), tell them that you had been curious and you confirmed that there is no rule against it.

    Of course, you probably won't have any need to go back there for a long time.

    TFred

  16. #16
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    TFred, that same person also conducts "random" inspections of cabs in their jurisdiction. I'd rather be working than getting 'inspected' whenever the fancy struck them. I'll see how things go. I may not even like the job...
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

  17. #17
    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    Can't you just say you are disabled and need to defend yourself, and if they discriminate you say something?
    Last edited by ocholsteroc; 06-10-2011 at 05:47 PM.
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

  18. #18
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    No, companies can set their own rules of conduct. If they allowed everyone to oc except for someone disabled, you could argue discrimination.

    Msc, do you have a company in mind? Have you checked their gun policies?

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    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    non-gun in a taxi

    I doubt you would be driving to these counties but they have ordinances for knives in a taxi. (Go figure?) I doubt whatever company you are going to work for will allow OC. CC may be your best bet and if discovered (probably after a robbery attempt) you may lose that job. :-)

    Chesterfield, Co. VA 15-210 to operate a taxicab at any time with a knife with a blade longer than 3"
    Danville, VA 39-31. & 23-52. to operate a taxicab at any time with a knife with a blade longer than 3" / No Knife on buses and at bus stops
    Hanover Co. VA 22.1-47. operate and drive a for-hire car with a knife with a blade longer than three (3) inches in length in his possession,
    Henrico Co. VA 21-139. operate and drive a for-hire car with a knife with a blade longer than three (3) inches in length in his possession,
    Last edited by 45acpForMe; 06-10-2011 at 06:47 PM.

  20. #20
    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 45acpForMe View Post
    I doubt you would be driving to these counties but they have ordinances for knives in a taxi. (Go figure?) I doubt whatever company you are going to work for will allow OC. CC may be your best bet and if discovered (probably after a robbery attempt) you may lose that job. :-)

    Chesterfield, Co. VA 15-210 to operate a taxicab at any time with a knife with a blade longer than 3"
    Danville, VA 39-31. & 23-52. to operate a taxicab at any time with a knife with a blade longer than 3" / No Knife on buses and at bus stops
    Hanover Co. VA 22.1-47. operate and drive a for-hire car with a knife with a blade longer than three (3) inches in length in his possession,
    Henrico Co. VA 21-139. operate and drive a for-hire car with a knife with a blade longer than three (3) inches in length in his possession,
    Does this apply to passengers or just the driver? because if the passengers can carry that then the driver is subject to robbery without self defence.
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

  21. #21
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    I do have a company in mind and have already been hired. I'm just waiting for the last "hoop" (the city permit). I'll play it like any of us would when they CC... If you're doing it right, no one will ever know. I've read the company policies for drivers and didn't see anything about carrying. Reminds me of another OC/CC habit we have... If they don't have a sign, don't ask for them to post one. I've read every scrap of paper put before me for signature very carefully and none of them has mentioned firearms. Don't Ask, Don't Tell. Been thinking about the pizza delivery gig, too.
    There aren't too many things a disabled retiree can do to make ends meet and these two jobs may fit the bill.

    I've been waiting for the VA to get back to me for YEARS about "retraining" for another career. Every time I call, they still say "Its in process..." Its been 5 years. I guess "fresh-returnees" get priority over us old farts that served more than 20 years and retired at the beginning of the current "war".

    OCd at Suntrust bank, Verizon Wireless and around the "new" outdoor shopping mall at Oyster Point (whose name escapes me at the present time). Got a "hairy eyeball" from the unarmed Rental-Cop at Verizon. (I think she was jealous 'cause my Kimber is more perty than she.) The security guys at Oyster Point don't like OCers, either. I've had them ask me to leave a store or two after someone called them about MWAG. I keep track of the stores I've been asked to leave and don't return to them. The list is short. One of them is the jewelry store (whose prices are too high anyway).

    msc
    Last edited by MSC 45ACP; 06-10-2011 at 11:24 PM. Reason: spelling and grammar repairs
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

  22. #22
    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    The Newport News Neighborhood Watch Coalition meets at the NNPDHQ, and I have OC/CCd there multiple times without incident.
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

  23. #23
    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ocholsteroc View Post
    Does this apply to passengers or just the driver? because if the passengers can carry that then the driver is subject to robbery without self defence.
    All those ordinances apply to the operator/driver not to the passengers. I did some research on knife laws since there is no preemption in VA for knives. Some of the ordinances are redundant (school property) others apply to knives over 3.something inches long (everyone and anyone) and others only apply to taxi drivers!??? I don't know why taxi drivers would have a restriction tighter than any other member of society. Go figure.

    Here is the full list I found:

    Amherst Co. VA 12-25 in any park to have in his possession any knife with a blade of more than three (3) inches
    Ashland, VA 12-12 hidden from common observation, clasp knife having a blade more than (3 1/4) inches in length,
    Chesterfield, Co. VA 15-210 to operate a taxicab at any time with a knife with a blade longer than 3"
    Danville, VA 39-31. & 23-52. to operate a taxicab at any time with a knife with a blade longer than 3" / No Knife on buses and at bus stops
    Farmville, VA 18-48 to have in his possession a clasp knife having a blade more than three and one-quarter (3 1/4) inches
    Fauquier Co. VA 16-7 for any person to use, carry or have in his possession any knife with a blade of more than 3" in any park.
    Hanover Co. VA 22.1-47. operate and drive a for-hire car with a knife with a blade longer than three (3) inches in length in his possession,
    Henrico Co. VA 21-139. operate and drive a for-hire car with a knife with a blade longer than three (3) inches in length in his possession,
    Norfolk, VA 47-6. on any public/private/parochial/elementary/middle/high school, including buildings & grounds, W/blade 3" or longer
    Petersburg, VA 74-207. on any public/private/parochial/elementary/middle/high school, including buildings & grounds, W/blade 3" or longer
    Pulaski, VA 70-132. Parades/Rallies/Noncommercial Gatherings No participant shall carry knives/edged weapons, either openly or concealed.
    Richmond, VA 66-347. knife having a blade more than 3 1/4 inches in length./ drive a taxicab with a blade longer than three inches

    The definition of clasp knife is any folding blade that will lock into the open position, so most folders.

    The school ordinances are redundant because the current state law only allows folding knives of length less than 3" and anything else is defined as a weapon.
    Last edited by 45acpForMe; 06-11-2011 at 08:36 AM.

  24. #24
    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    As an armed (CC handgun) cab driver, you face a certain risk of not being able to fulfill your fare's contract. For example, you could be asked to drive to a location where firearms carry is restricted (school, regional jail in James City County, where you might need to exit the cab e.g. access the trunk) or onto a military base. Since service by any given cab is demand driven, there's no way for you to predict where your next fare will take you.

    What contract, you may ask? The one that's implied when your fare gets into your cab.
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

  25. #25
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 45acpForMe View Post
    All those ordinances apply to the operator/driver not to the passengers. I did some research on knife laws since there is no preemption in VA for knives. Some of the ordinances are redundant (school property) others apply to knives over 3.something inches long (everyone and anyone) and others only apply to taxi drivers!??? I don't know why taxi drivers would have a restriction tighter than any other member of society. Go figure.

    Here is the full list I found:

    Amherst Co. VA 12-25 in any park to have in his possession any knife with a blade of more than three (3) inches
    Ashland, VA 12-12 hidden from common observation, clasp knife having a blade more than (3 1/4) inches in length,
    Chesterfield, Co. VA 15-210 to operate a taxicab at any time with a knife with a blade longer than 3"
    Danville, VA 39-31. & 23-52. to operate a taxicab at any time with a knife with a blade longer than 3" / No Knife on buses and at bus stops
    Farmville, VA 18-48 to have in his possession a clasp knife having a blade more than three and one-quarter (3 1/4) inches
    Fauquier Co. VA 16-7 for any person to use, carry or have in his possession any knife with a blade of more than 3" in any park.
    Hanover Co. VA 22.1-47. operate and drive a for-hire car with a knife with a blade longer than three (3) inches in length in his possession,
    Henrico Co. VA 21-139. operate and drive a for-hire car with a knife with a blade longer than three (3) inches in length in his possession,
    Norfolk, VA 47-6. on any public/private/parochial/elementary/middle/high school, including buildings & grounds, W/blade 3" or longer
    Petersburg, VA 74-207. on any public/private/parochial/elementary/middle/high school, including buildings & grounds, W/blade 3" or longer
    Pulaski, VA 70-132. Parades/Rallies/Noncommercial Gatherings No participant shall carry knives/edged weapons, either openly or concealed.
    Richmond, VA 66-347. knife having a blade more than 3 1/4 inches in length./ drive a taxicab with a blade longer than three inches

    The definition of clasp knife is any folding blade that will lock into the open position, so most folders.

    The school ordinances are redundant because the current state law only allows folding knives of length less than 3" and anything else is defined as a weapon.
    As far as the regulations for commercial drivers, I think the localities can regulate the possession of knives.
    But if I understand the Dillon rule, a locality may not impose greater regulation than the state.

    Since the state has no prohibition against specific blade length, except on school grounds and possibly a few other exceptions, the local laws forbidding specific blade lengths are unenforceable.

    anyone have a cite on that.

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