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Thread: Now that we know we have been lied to...

  1. #1
    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
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    Now that we know we have been lied to...

    We know which Republican senators went against Constitutional carry, and need to work on getting them voted out. Its also a good bet that Walker will NOT use his line item veto power to salvage or alter the bill in favor of Constitutional carry. That being said do we move against his regime? I am not a Democrat, and have a very sour taste in my mouth from even thinking of supporting the Democratic effort to recall Walker. However it is important that our elected officials get the message across that if they are elected under any specific campaign issue and then choose to ignore that promise after elected that they will have consequences.

    I am all for going after the senators in question, but both of my representatives are deeply rooted in Democratic party rule. I will still work to vote them out, but I will also hunker down on those turncoat republicans.
    Last edited by bigdaddy1; 06-10-2011 at 12:37 PM.
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdaddy1 View Post
    I am not a Democrat, and have a very sour taste in my mouth from even thinking of supporting the Democratic effort to recall Walker.
    People need to re-align their thinking. Voting the Paper Patriots* out for being traitors has absolutely nothing to do with supporting the Dems. It has everything to do with supporting the Constitution, our RIGHTS, our future...

    We need to vote all of them (except maybe Pam ) out every election until they get the message that they work for us. This bs we are enduring now is the perfect example of why. We have spoken for a third time and for a third time we have been ignored. No matter what party they claim to be affiliated with they are almost ALL traitors. Traitors to us, this state, it's Constitution, and THE Constitution.

    It is our DUTY as Wisconsin citizens to vote them all out. Elected office is a privilege. NOT a career. Don't want the Dems to fill the recall void? Then we must find Independents, Patriots, or both (if this was the land of cotton candy and unicorns) to take over. TO REPRESENT US.

    * MR. FranK
    Last edited by HandyHamlet; 06-10-2011 at 01:32 PM.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

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    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
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    "I am not a Democrat, and have a very sour taste in my mouth from even thinking of supporting the Democratic effort to recall Walker."


    I stand by my original statement, not because I have no taste for recalling Walker but because I dislike the recently socialistic agenda the Democratic party seems to be taking.
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

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    I know I'm going to get lit up for this but here goes. I too am upset about not getting constitutional carry, however the logic of voting everybody out until they start changing doesn't hold water. The reason for this is what about the mean time while these people that you are going to vote out next time are in office? So vote an ultra liberal in with the reasoning that if they don't do what we want we'll just vote them out next time. You can bet your hat that they will not be putting constitutional carry up with a house and senate full of libtards! Walker didn't write this bill and regardless of his words about training we all know that this was probably going to happen with training and permits. Now we must move forward and voting in a bunch of liberal tree huggers isn't the answer either.

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    I'll be voting via a write in if the other canidates are also anti CC. Lot's to choose from.....James Madison.....Patrick Henry......Alexander Hamilton...George Mason.......or someone contemporary like Charlton Heston would send a simple message. I'll also be writing "FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS" next to his name to drive the point home.

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    Regular Member skorittnig's Avatar
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    I am in favor of REPLACING any RINO's with a true conservative--but I am NOT in favor of replacing them with another moderate, or a lefty.

    I am not satisfied with the current bill, however, CCW was not the only issue I wanted this administration to take up- so I am interested to see how some of the other issues (castle doctrine, business taxes/personal taxes, property taxes, declining home value, voter ID, school vouchers, entitlement reform etc.) play out.

    The grass may or may not be greener on the other side, but I'd make sure before risking throwing away our majority over one issue.
    skorittnig

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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jessejmc1979 View Post
    I know I'm going to get lit up for this but here goes. I too am upset about not getting constitutional carry, however the logic of voting everybody out until they start changing doesn't hold water.
    Well voting Republican or Democrat certainly is not working. The status quo is not working. As citizens and voters we are the only ones who can change that.

    So vote an ultra liberal in with the reasoning that if they don't do what we want we'll just vote them out next time.
    WHO said ANYTHING abut voting in an ultra liberal????? And why on earth would we NOT vote anyone out who does not do what we want? That's what their only job is. To represent US! To vote how WE tell them.

    Walker is a dream crusher. His one job is to sign into law what we tell him to. He publicly stated what he wanted to see. Which is in direct contradiction to what the Wisconsin voters wanted to see. We got what THEY wanted.

    They are all traitors (except Pam). Every one of them had their chance. Now it is time for them to move along.


    Quote Originally Posted by skorittnig View Post

    The grass may or may not be greener on the other side, but I'd make sure before risking throwing away our majority over one issue.
    How is playing safe working out exactly? One issue? You mean the issue of balancing the budget, less government, less spending? Last time I checked a voter ID bill was going to cost us money and create bigger government. Last time I checked a permit system was going to cost money and create bigger government.

    Hey but they gave us the Cream Puff Pastry.
    Last edited by HandyHamlet; 06-10-2011 at 05:34 PM.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

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    Regular Member oak1971's Avatar
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    They are just as unhappy to have us as we are them. I still don't see any good coming out of voting against the GOP in the general elections. Primaries are another story entirely.
    In God I trust. Everyone else needs to keep your hands where I can see them.

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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oak1971 View Post
    They are just as unhappy to have us as we are them. I still don't see any good coming out of voting against the GOP in the general elections. Primaries are another story entirely.
    What about recalls?
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

  10. #10
    Regular Member oak1971's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    What about recalls?
    I won't vote communist, even if the other choice is a Rino statist.
    In God I trust. Everyone else needs to keep your hands where I can see them.

  11. #11
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    I'd vote Tea Party if they got off their asses and became a legitimate Party. And brought up candidates from within. (Sarah Palin does not count)
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

  12. #12
    Regular Member oak1971's Avatar
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    As would I.
    In God I trust. Everyone else needs to keep your hands where I can see them.

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    Regular Member Lurchiron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    I'd vote Tea Party if they got off their asses and became a legitimate Party. And brought up candidates from within. (Sarah Palin does not count)
    Ahh, words of wisdom...truly

    +1
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    For little he knows where a foe may lurk,
    And sit in the seats within.

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    Regular Member wild boar's Avatar
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    If they took us at our words...

    ...,Constitutional Carry,they would be voted down everything else for ever. We are not the only people with rights. All of this rancor is getting us nowhere.
    The purpose of fighting is to win,
    there is no victory in defense.
    The sword is more important than the shield,
    and skill is more important than either.
    The final weapon is the brain,
    all else is supplemental.

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    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
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    what does star wars have to do with this thread?
    "All of this rancor is getting us nowhere"

    don'tont see how discussing ones desire to;

    A Keep our elected officials on their toes and to understand their job is not to be our conscience
    B To have a viable alternative party rather than the 2 "standard" accepted parties

    Is somehow destructive behavior.
    Last edited by bigdaddy1; 06-12-2011 at 09:51 AM.
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

  16. #16
    McX
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    i know that guy! he owes me $50!

  17. #17
    Regular Member comp45acp's Avatar
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    With all due respect, some of you really need to chill out and give some thought to all the "vote them out" rhetoric. It will do absolutely nothing to improve our situation. Do you think anyone in any state gets everything they want in any bill dealing with any issue? It just does not happen. I am solidly in the Constitution Carry camp but folks, the votes just weren't there! There is a variety of reasons for that, RINO radio talk show hosts, the recall elections, etc. But that said you have to realize we went from a state that has a 130 year history of ZERO lawful concealed carry to one of the best permit to carry laws in the country. That is no small first step. You can still open carry as you do now with no permit if you want. Instead of writing all these negative posts we must focus on education of the public and our elected representatives to improve rights. We are much better off having, for instance, Senator Luther Olson (a RINO for sure on many issues) in the State Senate than his opponent in the recall election. His opponent is going to be now Representative Fred Clark who is against ANY form of concealed carry no matter how restrictive. We need to be smart about this. If we don't like Olson we need to find a credible Constitutional Conservative to run against him in the primary election. That would be an improvement. But to just throw him out and end up with Clark would be a huge net loss. To lose control of the State Senate would be a serious defeat for any further improvement of our rights for the rest of the Senate term.
    Jim Burgess
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  18. #18
    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by comp45acp View Post
    With all due respect, some of you really need to chill out and give some thought to all the "vote them out" rhetoric. It will do absolutely nothing to improve our situation. Do you think anyone in any state gets everything they want in any bill dealing with any issue? It just does not happen. I am solidly in the Constitution Carry camp but folks, the votes just weren't there! There is a variety of reasons for that, RINO radio talk show hosts, the recall elections, etc. But that said you have to realize we went from a state that has a 130 year history of ZERO lawful concealed carry to one of the best permit to carry laws in the country. That is no small first step. You can still open carry as you do now with no permit if you want. Instead of writing all these negative posts we must focus on education of the public and our elected representatives to improve rights. We are much better off having, for instance, Senator Luther Olson (a RINO for sure on many issues) in the State Senate than his opponent in the recall election. His opponent is going to be now Representative Fred Clark who is against ANY form of concealed carry no matter how restrictive. We need to be smart about this. If we don't like Olson we need to find a credible Constitutional Conservative to run against him in the primary election. That would be an improvement. But to just throw him out and end up with Clark would be a huge net loss. To lose control of the State Senate would be a serious defeat for any further improvement of our rights for the rest of the Senate term.
    No, we did not expect to get everything. We do however expect them to abide by what they stated while running for election. That those whom said they would support constitutional carry then turned and sided with their "conscience" or for other reasons decided that we are not capable of exercising our constitutional rights and "compromised" (or conspired) against it. Tell me how that is unreasonable?
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

  19. #19
    Regular Member skorittnig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by comp45acp View Post
    With all due respect, some of you really need to chill out and give some thought to all the "vote them out" rhetoric. It will do absolutely nothing to improve our situation. Do you think anyone in any state gets everything they want in any bill dealing with any issue? It just does not happen. I am solidly in the Constitution Carry camp but folks, the votes just weren't there! There is a variety of reasons for that, RINO radio talk show hosts, the recall elections, etc. But that said you have to realize we went from a state that has a 130 year history of ZERO lawful concealed carry to one of the best permit to carry laws in the country. That is no small first step. You can still open carry as you do now with no permit if you want. Instead of writing all these negative posts we must focus on education of the public and our elected representatives to improve rights. We are much better off having, for instance, Senator Luther Olson (a RINO for sure on many issues) in the State Senate than his opponent in the recall election. His opponent is going to be now Representative Fred Clark who is against ANY form of concealed carry no matter how restrictive. We need to be smart about this. If we don't like Olson we need to find a credible Constitutional Conservative to run against him in the primary election. That would be an improvement. But to just throw him out and end up with Clark would be a huge net loss. To lose control of the State Senate would be a serious defeat for any further improvement of our rights for the rest of the Senate term.

    This
    skorittnig

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    Quote Originally Posted by comp45acp View Post
    With all due respect, some of you really need to chill out and give some thought to all the "vote them out" rhetoric. It will do absolutely nothing to improve our situation. Do you think anyone in any state gets everything they want in any bill dealing with any issue? It just does not happen. I am solidly in the Constitution Carry camp but folks, the votes just weren't there! There is a variety of reasons for that, RINO radio talk show hosts, the recall elections, etc. But that said you have to realize we went from a state that has a 130 year history of ZERO lawful concealed carry to one of the best permit to carry laws in the country. That is no small first step. You can still open carry as you do now with no permit if you want. Instead of writing all these negative posts we must focus on education of the public and our elected representatives to improve rights. We are much better off having, for instance, Senator Luther Olson (a RINO for sure on many issues) in the State Senate than his opponent in the recall election. His opponent is going to be now Representative Fred Clark who is against ANY form of concealed carry no matter how restrictive. We need to be smart about this. If we don't like Olson we need to find a credible Constitutional Conservative to run against him in the primary election. That would be an improvement. But to just throw him out and end up with Clark would be a huge net loss. To lose control of the State Senate would be a serious defeat for any further improvement of our rights for the rest of the Senate term.
    Well said, and I agree. To vote against a RINO in a primary is one thing... but to vote for a Dem instead of a RINO to "teach the RINO a lesson" is political suicide, and insane. There's more at stake here than just gun rights.

  21. #21
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by comp45acp View Post
    You can still open carry as you do now with no permit if you want.
    As I stated in another thread this is NOT TRUE. Here, let me rephrase it for you.

    ********.

    I am completely surrounded by school zones. I can't legally step off my property while open carrying. I can't walk to any of my local stores, shops... can't walk around downtown. I have to drive to a location before I can open carry.



    Instead of writing all these negative posts we must focus on education of the public and our elected representatives to improve rights.
    Thank you for the insight. None of us here ever thought of that.



    WTF do you think everyone on this forum has been doing for a year?????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????? The only negativity I see in this forum are the suggestions that we sit back and do nothing.


    You honestly think the Status quo is somehow working out to your benefit? Well bully for you. Don't do anything. That's exactly what they want you to do, expect you to do, and are counting on you to do.

    No accountability. No responsibility. Happy ******* days for the politicians as they write more checks with our money.


    wait. let me break out my mother******* happy dance.
    Last edited by HandyHamlet; 06-12-2011 at 11:46 AM.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

  22. #22
    Regular Member Archangel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    wait. let me break out my mother******* happy dance.
    Just a little levity to attempt to lighten the mood....

    After reading this I was struck with extremely amusing thought of:

    There were some people who thought this guy was Doug?


  23. #23
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    You replace these RINOS when you have someone better to replace them with. Replacing them with someone worse then them in order to punish them is self-destructive. If true, liberty loving conservatives challenge them in a primaries support the true conservatives. Should the true conservatives loose, we must support the RINO instead of a flaming liberal democrat. IMHO

  24. #24
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    I'm not Doug!

    But thanks for bringing up the levity thing.

    comp45acp PLEASE do not misconstrue my post as a personal attack against you. It is not. I write the way I write.

    Like a dick.

    Which in fact is my middle name.

    However I am here to also assure you I am not what I eat.









    Should I stop now?




    Quote Originally Posted by Max View Post
    Replacing them with someone worse then them in order to punish them is self-destructive.
    I disagree. That's what we have been doing for years and years and years. That's exactly what they WANT us to do. That's exactly what the know we will do. This way they can do WHATEVER they want with absolutely NO ramifications whatsoever.

    It is time to make a stand. Look. We are already taking it standing up without so much as a thank you. If we have to sit through a term with another ******* in office in order to convince them all we are serious, well then that's what we have to do. We literally can not afford the status quo.

    Time to man up.
    Last edited by HandyHamlet; 06-12-2011 at 12:05 PM.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

  25. #25
    Regular Member RR_Broccoli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by comp45acp View Post
    With all due respect, some of you really need to chill out and give some thought to all the "vote them out" rhetoric. It will do absolutely nothing to improve our situation. Do you think anyone in any state gets everything they want in any bill dealing with any issue? It just does not happen. I am solidly in the Constitution Carry camp but folks, the votes just weren't there! There is a variety of reasons for that, RINO radio talk show hosts, the recall elections, etc. But that said you have to realize we went from a state that has a 130 year history of ZERO lawful concealed carry to one of the best permit to carry laws in the country. That is no small first step. You can still open carry as you do now with no permit if you want. Instead of writing all these negative posts we must focus on education of the public and our elected representatives to improve rights. We are much better off having, for instance, Senator Luther Olson (a RINO for sure on many issues) in the State Senate than his opponent in the recall election. His opponent is going to be now Representative Fred Clark who is against ANY form of concealed carry no matter how restrictive. We need to be smart about this. If we don't like Olson we need to find a credible Constitutional Conservative to run against him in the primary election. That would be an improvement. But to just throw him out and end up with Clark would be a huge net loss. To lose control of the State Senate would be a serious defeat for any further improvement of our rights for the rest of the Senate term.
    I think you are missing a few key points.

    The first one (and most subtle I think) is that we are ALREADY not getting what we want. Wait, we would STILL not get what we want if they were out? So?

    In plainer English we have nothing left to lose. Anybody (and that includes politicians) should be wary of creating a situation where people think that.

    Secondly, the one with the power wins. That's true for personal romantic relationships as well as politics. Thinking that "oh we can't get rid of 'our guy' because that means THEY get THEIR guy completely strips the power from the people who vote.

    That results in "career politicians" who sell their actions to the highest bidder once they get in office, and who completely fabricate their pre-election persona in order to get to do that.

    Politicians need to be frightened of lying. They need to be frightened of pulling a complete 180 from their campaigns like Walker hand half the republicans in the legislature have done. Seriously. REPUBLICANS LIE. This is true and you admitted it was the case and then shrugged your shoulders "we can't do anything or the other guy wins".

    I have news for you. We don't HAVE a guy. We have some issues that are getting swept under the rug. Nobody up there cares about them. Never did, and lied about it when it was convenient.

    It's time to remove everybody. And to keep doing it until the system is changed.

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