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Thread: After a real shooting...

  1. #1
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    Thumbs up After a real shooting...

    Some Sage advice from Massad Ayoob and a must see... After a Real Shooting – Guns & Ammo

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    5 point check list. After calling 911

    1. Officer this man attacked me.

    2. I will sign the complaint.

    3. Evidence is here.

    4. Witnesses are there.

    5. Officer you will have my full cooperation in 24 hours after I have spoken with counsel.
    Last edited by Sheldon; 06-10-2011 at 01:09 PM.

  2. #2
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Sage advice worth repeating.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    As Bruce Lee once said you have to have some 'emotional content'.

    If you say those things (and I'm not implying you couldn't do it convincingly - you're just making a checklist), and sound robotic it might be suspicious.

    Too bad we can't carry our Lawyers around in a holster to speak for us.

  4. #4
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    As Bruce Lee once said you have to have some 'emotional content'.

    If you say those things (and I'm not implying you couldn't do it convincingly - you're just making a checklist), and sound robotic it might be suspicious.

    Too bad we can't carry our Lawyers around in a holster to speak for us.
    Always better to have a prepared thought process - a rehearsed/practiced response. That's far better than to attempt to ad lib.

    Regarding lawyer/attorney - I carry mine in my wallet. That's right next to my heart.

    You really need to learn a new song. The old one is depressing - like broken pickup trucks, lame hound dogs and warm beer. Try barbershop - three other voices may lend a more positive note to your chorus.

    BTW - Is your acquaintance with Kali/Escrima the Sayoc lineage? Had the pleasure of meeting both Mike and Tony in years past and receiving benefit of their expertise.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  5. #5
    Regular Member sraacke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheldon View Post
    Some Sage advice from Massad Ayoob and a must see... After a Real Shooting Guns & Ammo

    to highlight

    5 point check list. After calling 911

    1. Officer this man attacked me.

    2. I will sign the complaint.

    3. Evidence is here.

    4. Witnesses are there.

    5. Officer you will have my full cooperation in 24 hours after I have spoken with counsel.
    That's pretty much what I got printed on a wallet card when I signed up for the prepaid lawyer plan that I joined called Louisiana Armed Citizen Plan. On the reverse side is instructions on how to reach my lawyer 24/7.
    President/ Founding Member
    Louisiana Open Carry Awareness League
    www.laopencarry.org

  6. #6
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    I am not so sure about the pointing out evidence part. Have your lawyer do that.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  7. #7
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    BTW - Is your acquaintance with Kali/Escrima the Sayoc lineage? Had the pleasure of meeting both Mike and Tony in years past and receiving benefit of their expertise.
    I'm Arnis Lastra/Lanada, quite familiar with Sayoc/AMOK.
    Last edited by Badger Johnson; 06-11-2011 at 09:25 AM.

  8. #8
    Regular Member UtahRSO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    I am not so sure about the pointing out evidence part. Have your lawyer do that.
    I think Massad Ayoob was concerned about evidence (in the person's favor) that might not be noticed by the responding officer, which could disappear if not noted immediately.

  9. #9
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UtahRSO View Post
    I think Massad Ayoob was concerned about evidence (in the person's favor) that might not be noticed by the responding officer, which could disappear if not noted immediately.
    Mass is available as an expert witness for the defense and would appear to be very effective - he isn't free though.

    Much of his writing/courses have not been favorable tactically to OC in the past. He has seemed to mellow a bit on that element though.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  10. #10
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UtahRSO View Post
    I think Massad Ayoob was concerned about evidence (in the person's favor) that might not be noticed by the responding officer, which could disappear if not noted immediately.
    I understand that, but having been involved in a situation years ago where I saw the cops twist the help I was giving them to be used against me later. I am a skeptic of that and would remain very very cautious about what you reveal and the techniques they use to keep you talking once you start.

    The advice I got from the lawyer if it goes beyond pointing out witness, was to let him point out the evidence later. If it isn't very obvious already to the police it was a self defense situation to begin with you may very unknowingly be giving them "evidence" they can use against you.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by yale View Post
    That's pretty much what I got printed on a wallet card when I signed up for the prepaid lawyer plan that I joined called Louisiana Armed Citizen Plan. On the reverse side is instructions on how to reach my lawyer 24/7.
    lmfao one of the biggest scams in the world of carry is prepaying a lawyer. my attorney who happens to be very big time in minnesota laughed when i asked if thats how he worked and said he would still provide me with 24/7 service no matter what and without ever paying a dime. just informing u that u can get the same service from an even better lawyer for free. hate to see people get suckered into that .

  12. #12
    Regular Member GuidoZ's Avatar
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    I've had a lot of luck with Pre-Paid Legal (not a pre-paid lawyer necessarily, but rather the ability to catch someone 24/7, for real - no vacation or sleeping as someone is always on call). It's cheap, and they fight all traffic tickets for you, as well as do your Will and such. I have a local contact who would be glad to help anyone in North Eastern WA, and can recommend a local rep anywhere you are. Just drop me a PM.

    --
    Peace. ~G
    Carry weapon: SA XDm .40 SC + 11rd Ranger SXT 180gr

  13. #13
    Brentes
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    Hi Sheldon,
    Thanks for sharing this informative video with everyone.
    I have watched some videos of Massad Ayoob before and I think he is the most know knowledgeable person and definitive expert in his field.

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