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Thread: My Take on SB93

  1. #1
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    My Take on SB93

    As much as I would have loved to have constitutional carry, I am not overly dissappointed in the bill as it currenty stands. Political realities being what they are, I think the pressure we put on the legislature pushed this bill as close to what we wanted as we were going to get. Without us, we would have gotten something much more restrictive. I know some may see that as a loss, but I see it as winning a major battle in the longer war.

    The training requirements are minimal, much more like Florida than Utah or Minnesota. The cost is minimal compared to Florida, where I just renewed for $125. We get rid of a majority the GFSZ stuff, the vehicle carry stuff, and the disorderly conduct stuff. We keep permitless OC.

    We don't get permitless CC. There is some cost to the training, unless you already satisfy the requirements. It's not free. There is a govt database, currently inaccessible for the most part, but existing just the same for some future despot to exploit.

    I know we didn't get everything we wanted, but how bad is this, really?

    Fast Ed

  2. #2
    Regular Member Outdoorsman1's Avatar
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    My Take on SB93

    Whether we "Won" or not I suppose depends upon how much you value the Constitution and what it CLEARLY states regarding the RIGHT to "Keep and Bear Arms" and something else about NOT infringing on those rights.

    This is just another baby step in the process of turning a right into "Privilege". And as we all know, a privilege is something that can be alterd or even taken away if a future government see's fit. I wonder how long it will take before all we have left is privileges as then our rights will have been eliminated...(consider the "Patriot Act")....

    I will concur that the permit, for those that want to carry concealed and legally carry within a GFSZ (gun free school zone) (1000 Ft.) this could be considered a "good thing". Or at the very least, those of us that choose to Open Carry and are not concerned with the GFSZ thing, will be able to avoid "The Dance" of unload, case, uncase, load, will be able to open carry loaded in a vehicle legally WITHOUT the permit.

    For the record, I always have been and for the most part always will be an "Open Carrier", but when the time comes, I will get the permit as to not having to worry (or do the dance) if I happen to drive past a school.

    But I will not consider this a "WIN", just another right turned into a privilege...

    Outdoorsman1
    Last edited by Outdoorsman1; 06-10-2011 at 04:07 PM.
    "On the Plains of Hesitation bleach the bones of countless millions who, at the Dawn of Victory, sat down to wait - and waiting, died."

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  3. #3
    McX
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    the problem is what we fought for how many years to get is probably what we will be looking at for the next 20 years.

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fast Ed
    The training requirements are minimal, much more like Florida than Utah or Minnesota.
    There is some cost to the training, unless you already satisfy the requirements.
    See the thread Paul started about free training via the Maryland State Police.

    We'll have to wait & make sure they don't screw around with the training requirements before passing the bill, but as it stands right now we can do a free online course & it meets the requirements.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 27:12
    A prudent person foresees the danger ahead and takes precautions.
    The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.
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    Regular Member Zeus's Avatar
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    OK all, I have a question about a particular scenario. Let's say I get the CC permit (I already have Utah and FL which should be good here) for WI. Can I for instance, OC into a store then before entering my car, just get in and call it CC since I have a CC permit? Can I get around the unloading business we do now with a CC permit is what I am asking I guess.
    When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
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    Regular Member BROKENSPROKET's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus View Post
    OK all, I have a question about a particular scenario. Let's say I get the CC permit (I already have Utah and FL which should be good here) for WI. Can I for instance, OC into a store then before entering my car, just get in and call it CC since I have a CC permit? Can I get around the unloading business we do now with a CC permit is what I am asking I guess.
    From what I understand, without a permit, you can Open Carry in a vehicle, you just have to be careful about driving through a GFSZ as that would be a Felony.

    Now, I have a question that I am not sure about. With a permit, can we Open Carry in a GFSZ?

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    Regular Member oak1971's Avatar
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    Its better than it could have been and worse than it should have been.
    In God I trust. Everyone else needs to keep your hands where I can see them.

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    Regular Member BROKENSPROKET's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McX View Post
    the problem is what we fought for how many years to get is probably what we will be looking at for the next 2 years.
    There, I changed it for you.

  9. #9
    McX
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    Quote Originally Posted by oak1971 View Post
    Its better than it could have been and worse than it should have been.
    will it be better than Illinois get(s)?

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    Regular Member oak1971's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McX View Post
    will it be better than Illinois get(s)?
    Most likely, but only God knows for sure. He has not seen fit to grant me a prophetic vision on the matter.
    In God I trust. Everyone else needs to keep your hands where I can see them.

  11. #11
    Founder's Club Member springfield 1911's Avatar
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    We need to stop speculating, The reason the bill is not final. The one thing I now for sure is WE"RE GOING TO GET REALLY SCREWED! The writing's on the wall.

    There now is that not easier to accept!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJQ34JTqk0I

    In the ashes burns an ember of liberty, We are the fuel to ignite the ember into a flame of liberty.

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    ****** give it away ( Our rights ) prostitutes sell it (Mandated training).

  12. #12
    Regular Member oak1971's Avatar
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    Mene mene tekel upharsin
    In God I trust. Everyone else needs to keep your hands where I can see them.

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    Founder's Club Member springfield 1911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oak1971 View Post
    Mene mene tekel upharsin
    This reminds me of when i would have to look up things Doug Would post, ahh those were the good old days.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJQ34JTqk0I

    In the ashes burns an ember of liberty, We are the fuel to ignite the ember into a flame of liberty.

    The embodiment of our founding fathers will not be found in one man , But in Many.

    ****** give it away ( Our rights ) prostitutes sell it (Mandated training).

  14. #14
    Regular Member oak1971's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by springfield 1911 View Post
    This reminds me of when i would have to look up things Doug Would post, ahh those were the good old days.
    It's the writing on the wall. This is where the term originated.

    Words written by a mysterious hand on the wall of Belshazzar's palace, and interpreted by Daniel as predicting the doom of the king and his dynasty. The incident is described as follows: Once when King Belshazzar was banqueting with his lords and drinking wine from the golden vessels of the Temple of Yhwh, a man's hand was seen writing on the wall certain mysterious words. Frightened by the apparition, the king ordered his astrologers to explain the inscription; but they were unable to read it. Daniel was then summoned to the royal palace; and the king promised him costly presents if he would decipher the inscription. Daniel read it "Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin" and explained it to mean that God had "numbered" the kingdom of Belshazzar and brought it to an end; that the king had been weighed and found wanting; and that his kingdom was divided and given to the Medes and Persians (Dan. v. 1-28).

    Read more: http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/vi...#ixzz1OvNZzBeX
    In God I trust. Everyone else needs to keep your hands where I can see them.

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    How are we going to get really really screwed?

    I for one would have loved constitutional carry, but what we have as of now in the bill is a far cry from where it was. For a state to go from nothing to this is pretty good.

  16. #16
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Me: Big government, may I exercise my right to bear arms?
    Big government: No! Now sit down and shut up! *backhands me*
    Me: *cries*
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Founder's Club Member springfield 1911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadlifter View Post
    How are we going to get really really screwed?

    I for one would have loved constitutional carry, but what we have as of now in the bill is a far cry from where it was. For a state to go from nothing to this is pretty good.
    The bill is not finalized, If it was then yea, but a whole lot of compromising can happen , Republicans are good for that when the party leaders pull their strings!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJQ34JTqk0I

    In the ashes burns an ember of liberty, We are the fuel to ignite the ember into a flame of liberty.

    The embodiment of our founding fathers will not be found in one man , But in Many.

    ****** give it away ( Our rights ) prostitutes sell it (Mandated training).

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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    Me: Big government, may I exercise my right to bear arms?
    Big government: No! Now sit down and shut up! *backhands me*
    Me: *cries*
    You can exercise your rights. You get to OC all day everyday if you wish. Im going to catch alot of **** for this, but everyone says wording is everything, and it doesnt say you may keep and bear arms concealed in the constitution.

    No offense to anyone, but cheese n rice, here comes a pretty good bill as it sits right now, and so many are still complaining. Yeah, constitutional carry would have been fantastic, but to go from nothing to constitutional carry especially in WI would have been like turning lead into gold IMO.

    Im happy with the way it sits right now, as long as they dont go and pull some sh*t and starting adding right before the Senate vote. I can swing $50 every 5 years, and Im sure most people can, regardless of your income level. Plus its SHALL issue, wasnt that important for everyone too? Not too mention carrying in a car, in a tavern, restaraunt, etc....

    I dont know... just my two worthless cents.

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    deadlifter, I understand what you are saying but the reason I am disappointed is that we did this the right way. We started well over a year ago and got the Republican Party Platform modified to remove the permit and training requirements. We then worked really hard to get Tea Party candidates nominated and then elected. We pressed our legislators to educate them on constitutional carry. Now, when the rubber hits the road, they change their votes. I agree with you that this bill is better than what we have right now, but it could of been more.

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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadlifter View Post
    You can exercise your rights. You get to OC all day everyday if you wish.

    I can't.

    Everything around me and my house is overlapping school zones. I have a Starbuck's several blocks away. Even if I could get close to it, it backs up against a school.

    So basically I have to drive somewhere to exercise my Constitutional Rights. I can't walk to my grocery store, bakeries, Library, video store, hardware store.... all within walking distance. All in school zones.

    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    deadlifter, I understand what you are saying but the reason I am disappointed ...
    And lets not forget the bigger picture as Paul eludes to. We the voters have spoken. And our elected officials, instead of representing us, decided yet again to just do their own thing. Bigger government, more spending, more laws, turning rights into privileges.
    Last edited by HandyHamlet; 06-10-2011 at 10:14 PM.
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    I can certainly appreciate where your coming from.

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    Quote Originally Posted by deadlifter View Post
    You can exercise your rights. You get to OC all day everyday if you wish. Im going to catch alot of **** for this, but everyone says wording is everything, and it doesnt say you may keep and bear arms concealed in the constitution.

    No offense to anyone, but cheese n rice, here comes a pretty good bill as it sits right now, and so many are still complaining. Yeah, constitutional carry would have been fantastic, but to go from nothing to constitutional carry especially in WI would have been like turning lead into gold IMO.

    Im happy with the way it sits right now, as long as they dont go and pull some sh*t and starting adding right before the Senate vote. I can swing $50 every 5 years, and Im sure most people can, regardless of your income level. Plus its SHALL issue, wasnt that important for everyone too? Not too mention carrying in a car, in a tavern, restaraunt, etc....

    I dont know... just my two worthless cents.
    Bear arms, not openly bear arms. They do not say either way, they just say bear, and in this instance they mean carry. Why does a person need to get a permit to carry a hidden firearm vs. one carried openly? It shouldnt matter that you or I could "swing" $1,000 every 6 months, would you like to pay any amount to keep any other rights? Want to go to "xyz" church, that will be $29.91 every 3 months. Is that ok?
    "I don't really care for "cream cheese"..."

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    Regular Member wild boar's Avatar
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    "xyz"

    Quote Originally Posted by Mlutz View Post
    Bear arms, not openly bear arms. They do not say either way, they just say bear, and in this instance they mean carry. Why does a person need to get a permit to carry a hidden firearm vs. one carried openly? It shouldnt matter that you or I could "swing" $1,000 every 6 months, would you like to pay any amount to keep any other rights? Want to go to "xyz" church, that will be $29.91 every 3 months. Is that ok?
    I'm a God fearing man, but I do not fear the church. I do not fear the mortal man who claims the ability to "cleanse my soul". XYZ asks of those who attend for money. Is the church then trampling on your rights to freedom. When I hit those pearly gates my hair will be blazing, and my feet smoking, because I'm going through hell to get there. Here we go!
    The purpose of fighting is to win,
    there is no victory in defense.
    The sword is more important than the shield,
    and skill is more important than either.
    The final weapon is the brain,
    all else is supplemental.

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    A Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Outdoorsman1 View Post
    But I will not consider this a "WIN", just another right turned into a privilege...

    Outdoorsman1
    Until the Wisconsin Supreme Court changes its collective mind, concealed carry is/was not a right in Wisconsin. If you think it is a right then skip the permit and carry concealed. The current legislation is certainly better than either bill introduced under Doyle. Perhaps you should send Sherman et. al. a thank you card for upholding the vetoes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wild boar View Post
    I'm a God fearing man, but I do not fear the church. I do not fear the mortal man who claims the ability to "cleanse my soul". XYZ asks of those who attend for money. Is the church then trampling on your rights to freedom. When I hit those pearly gates my hair will be blazing, and my feet smoking, because I'm going through hell to get there. Here we go!
    +1

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