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Thread: Events held on public property preemption?

  1. #1
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Events held on public property preemption?

    I know we have fought and won many battles to ensure events stay within the state preemption law. I have a question though. If the event is held not by a city, county, etc.. but by a private organization or company and is on county property can they ban firearms? Sorry if this is a bit of a noob question I've looked through some of the threads and had trouble finding the answer. Thanks all carry on!
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  2. #2
    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    No they can not. Examples, Arts, Beats, & Eats, would be the biggest, and more recently, The Downtown Hoedown. Just because someone else is holding the event, doesn't magically make it not tax payer owned property.

    Hope this helps!
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
    Bam!" - eastmeyers

    "Then said he to them, But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his sack: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
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  3. #3
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Unless it's a "Downtown Authority" -- that's grey. See CADL v MOC...
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  4. #4
    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    Unless it's a "Downtown Authority" -- that's grey. See CADL v MOC...
    Not nessicarially, CADL (no I don't agree) "draws it's powers from the Library Authorities Act". I don't believe the Great State of Michigan has passed a Downtown Authority Act. Don't get me wrong the whole authority thing is BS altogether. But I don't think other "Authorities" can really pull the same crap as CADL, one because they would have to be the same county and land in front of the same activist judge, and two, they would have to have their own "Authority Act".

    This is how I see it. $0.02. I will let the record speak for its self. We won with AB&E, and DTH! So...
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
    Bam!" - eastmeyers

    "Then said he to them, But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his sack: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
    Luke 22:36
    God Bless

  5. #5
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Yeah I figured they did. The reason I ask this is because when the gun show comes to Kalamazoo they have it at the Kalamazoo County FG (which I haven't done much research on as far as who owns it I just always assumed kzoo county). And they do ban the carry of firearms so it seems to me if it is owned by Kzoo county then they couldn't do that of course I could be wrong about who owns it I'll have to do some research. Its nice to know the law about it reguardless. Thanks guys.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  6. #6
    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Well you do need to do your research about who owns the fair grounds. I am not sure of the number, but I am pretty sure that their are more "county fair grounds" privately owned than publicly. Good luck!
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
    Bam!" - eastmeyers

    "Then said he to them, But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his sack: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
    Luke 22:36
    God Bless

  7. #7
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    No, preemption does not run with the land; only applies to polices of localities not policies by private entites which have leased the land.

  8. #8
    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    No, preemption does not run with the land; only applies to polices of localities not policies by private entites which have leased the land.
    What about this?
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...Beats-and-Eats

    I have to respectfully disagree Mike. Its still taxpayer property. And it has been proven by Royal Oak City Attorney, VERY RELUCTANTLY I will add. It was also proved with The Downtown Hoedown, which is held in Detroit, one of the most anti-OC cities in Michigan, it was in HeartPlaze, a "city park", but it was fenced off, and leased by WYCD, who had a "no weapons policy". WYCD even claimed to be an entrainment facility, and also had a Liquor License. But DPD and their attorney's sided with us!

    EM
    Last edited by eastmeyers; 06-11-2011 at 05:03 AM.
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
    Bam!" - eastmeyers

    "Then said he to them, But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his sack: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
    Luke 22:36
    God Bless

  9. #9
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    Looks like it's owned by the County...

    http://www.kalcounty.com/parks/expo/index.htm

    Carry on

  10. #10
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmlefler View Post
    Looks like it's owned by the County...

    http://www.kalcounty.com/parks/expo/index.htm

    Carry on
    That's how it appeared to me too. I started a new thread dealing with the gun show being at the fairgrounds
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  11. #11
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eastmeyers View Post
    **snip** I don't believe the Great State of Michigan has passed a Downtown Authority Act.**snip**
    Michigan DOES have a Downtown Development Authority Act, which could also he used to thwart the spirit of the law. One more reason we need to get this CADL "issue" taken care of.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  12. #12
    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Unhappy

    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    Michigan DOES have a Downtown Development Authority Act, which could also he used to thwart the spirit of the law. One more reason we need to get this CADL "issue" taken care of.
    Great, just dandy. Its not even 3am, and you have to ruin my day already. Good night.
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
    Bam!" - eastmeyers

    "Then said he to them, But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his sack: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
    Luke 22:36
    God Bless

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