Measure of Freedom

But they also have existed for far longer than this Country.

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I beg to differ.

Which European government is older than the U.S.? If you only meant the names of said countries, I would suggest that the Germany of today is NOTHING like the Germany of 1780, Spain was totally rebuilt after the Blitzkrieg war that Germany pounded it with, France, Italy?

While their language may also be the same as it was in earlier times, their current form of government, in the context of this discussion (as in being broke), is how you must figure their age.

And in that respect, the U.S. IS the oldest, compared to Europe.

The Vatican could be considered a government by some,though what form of government I have no idea....Theocracy?

As I'm fond of saying, if we'd quit wasting money on illegitimate liberAl social programs and other unconstitutional BS , there'd be plenty of funding available for legitimate ones like transportation & transit.

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+1

Um... When did germany ever invade Spain? Spain was neutral in WWII following an ugly civil war...

And actually the modern Vatican city state has only existed since 1929, and is technically an elected monarchy.



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Germany didn't become a country until 1871, which is besides the point. The Germans did help Franco during the Spanish Civil war, but that was the extent of their involvement, there was no blitzkrieg there, Italy wasn't a country until maybe after WW2? There are some that still argue about that....

Which still isn't the point. Mass transit CAN work. I've seen it, and in my two tours (by tours I mean military type, not a two week trip) I was able to get anywhere I wanted to go whenever I wanted to do it....It could be made to work here, if we had the national will to make it work...

But if we had the national will to make things work, there are a whole lot of problems we wouldn't have....

No offense metal, but the few times I have ridden on a bus, I got stuck sitting by stinky people, so I have found I dont need public transportation in my life. There should be cutouts in the roads for bus drivers to pull over and get out of our way, so they dont create more traffic by holding people up. just my opinion.

as far as our roads, I for one dont think people from Alaska, Montana, and Oregon should be able to come here and get purchase things tax free. They use our roads to get here, so they should have to pay our taxes.

Um... When did germany ever invade Spain? Spain was neutral in WWII following an ugly civil war...

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Your right, I was thinking of the Civil War, when the Nationalists of Germany took sides with the Nationalists in Spain, including using Stuka dive Bombers, to which I was referring to as a Blitzkreig tactic.

My apologies.

amzbrady said:

No offense metal, but the few times I have ridden on a bus, I got stuck sitting by stinky people, so I have found I dont need public transportation in my life. There should be cutouts in the roads for bus drivers to pull over and get out of our way, so they dont create more traffic by holding people up. just my opinion.

as far as our roads, I for one dont think people from Alaska, Montana, and Oregon should be able to come here and get purchase things tax free. They use our roads to get here, so they should have to pay our taxes.

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Only way those from AK, MT, and OR can buy anything tax free is to certify that the purchase is for use out of state.

Washington residents and businesses benefit from this practice as well. How'd you like to be a business purchasing a large machine from a company in another state, have to pay all their taxes, and then have to pay the "Use Tax" here in Washington on top of it.

Just remember, when people drive here from MT and OR, they usually buy a few tanks of gas and get equally screwed by Washington State taxes on each gallon.

amzbrady said:

No offense metal, but the few times I have ridden on a bus, I got stuck sitting by stinky people, so I have found I dont need public transportation in my life. There should be cutouts in the roads for bus drivers to pull over and get out of our way, so they dont create more traffic by holding people up. just my opinion.

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You personally may not use it, but you still benefit from it. Wealthy folks in NYC who never use the bus or the subway benefit from it too. Because there simply is not enough room, physically, for everyone to drive. The King county area is just getting to that density level where public transit really is a necessity. Think you don't need it? Next time you're sitting in traffic and see a 60 foot Metro bus packed to the gills, imagine if everyone on that bus was in a car with you on that same road. Then look at all the other packed full busses near by.

As I recall, you've got an RV and spend most of your time travelling around in that, yes? You don't "commute" to work as such? Well for many people who do, being able to hop on a nice, clean, comfy commuter bus and let someone else worry about the traffic certainly benefits them. Especially when gas is over $4 a gallon.

Transit agencies usually try to put in bus cutouts where practical, but not everywhere is it practical to do so. And please don't try and tell me busses create traffic by stopping. The average bus stop takes something like 6 to 10 seconds, and even during rush hour only stops 2 or 3 times per mile. The bus is reducing far more traffic than it's creating, and if people would yield to the bus leaving the stop like they're supposed to, it would be even less so.

as far as our roads, I for one dont think people from Alaska, Montana, and Oregon should be able to come here and get purchase things tax free. They use our roads to get here, so they should have to pay our taxes.

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I'm not seeing your point? Those people pay sales tax when purchasing in this state same as we do. Sure, there's a process by which they can get that refunded, but how many people do you think actually DO that?

Metalhead47 said:

You personally may not use it, but you still benefit from it. Wealthy folks in NYC who never use the bus or the subway benefit from it too. Because there simply is not enough room, physically, for everyone to drive. The King county area is just getting to that density level where public transit really is a necessity. Think you don't need it? Next time you're sitting in traffic and see a 60 foot Metro bus packed to the gills, imagine if everyone on that bus was in a car with you on that same road. Then look at all the other packed full busses near by.

As I recall, you've got an RV and spend most of your time travelling around in that, yes? You don't "commute" to work as such? Well for many people who do, being able to hop on a nice, clean, comfy commuter bus and let someone else worry about the traffic certainly benefits them. Especially when gas is over $4 a gallon.

Transit agencies usually try to put in bus cutouts where practical, but not everywhere is it practical to do so. And please don't try and tell me busses create traffic by stopping. The average bus stop takes something like 6 to 10 seconds, and even during rush hour only stops 2 or 3 times per mile. The bus is reducing far more traffic than it's creating, and if people would yield to the bus leaving the stop like they're supposed to, it would be even less so.



I'm not seeing your point? Those people pay sales tax when purchasing in this state same as we do. Sure, there's a process by which they can get that refunded, but how many people do you think actually DO that?

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You left out the part where they make nice shelters for the homeless and wino's in downtown Seattle. Raining or Cold? Just ride the bus downtown for a few hours.

amlevin said:

You left out the part where they make nice shelters for the homeless and wino's in downtown Seattle. Raining or Cold? Just ride the bus downtown for a few hours.

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What's your point? The same is true of ANY public space downtown, mobile or not. I don't know about metros policy, but alot more could be done about such "squatters" if paying passengers actually spoke up instead of tolerating such.


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Metalhead47 said:

What's your point? The same is true of ANY public space downtown, mobile or not. I don't know about metros policy, but alot more could be done about such "squatters" if paying passengers actually spoke up instead of tolerating such.


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Riding Metro Transit is free in downtown Seattle from 6 a.m. and 7 p.m. daily.

Boundaries

The Ride Free Area extends from the north at Battery St. to S. Jackson St. on the south, and east at 6th Avenue to the waterfront on the west.

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WHAT paying customers????? From 6AM to 7PM, downtown Seattle is a "Free Ride".

Metalhead47 said:

You personally may not use it, but you still benefit from it. Wealthy folks in NYC who never use the bus or the subway benefit from it too. Because there simply is not enough room, physically, for everyone to drive. The King county area is just getting to that density level where public transit really is a necessity. Think you don't need it? Next time you're sitting in traffic and see a 60 foot Metro bus packed to the gills, imagine if everyone on that bus was in a car with you on that same road. Then look at all the other packed full busses near by.
I dont think "ALL" of those people would be on the same road at the same time. They are only there on a bus because of a schedule and bus route. Exept for the Ride share thing where people pay like $ .50 cents a ride, get picked up at their door and dropped off at work, like a cheap taxi, there are times I saw it ideling outside of IGA waiting on people while they shopped. I saw this many times in Ocean Shores when I lived there. Also saw alot of transit busses that traveled the 20 miles between Ocean Shores and Aberdeen with 2 or 3 people on them, seems like a huge waste of fuel.
As I recall, you've got an RV and spend most of your time travelling around in that, yes? You don't "commute" to work as such? Well for many people who do, being able to hop on a nice, clean, comfy commuter bus and let someone else worry about the traffic certainly benefits them. Especially when gas is over $4 a gallon.

We actually have a rental house and have the RV in storage. I bought a second vehicle so I could commute to work, and my wife could keep the other vehicle and not be stranded at home.

Transit agencies usually try to put in bus cutouts where practical, but not everywhere is it practical to do so. And please don't try and tell me busses create traffic by stopping. The average bus stop takes something like 6 to 10 seconds, and even during rush hour only stops 2 or 3 times per mile. The bus is reducing far more traffic than it's creating, and if people would yield to the bus leaving the stop like they're supposed to, it would be even less so.

yeah I have missed many a green light waiting for someone to wedge their bike on the front of a bus.

I'm not seeing your point? Those people pay sales tax when purchasing in this state same as we do. Sure, there's a process by which they can get that refunded, but how many people do you think actually DO that?

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Not true, Those none to bright people wait till all their items are rung up and hold up lines while filling out a tax free form so they dont have to pay tax, instead of saying something before hand so you can get the form for them to fill out and still be able to keep ringing out other customers. What really sucks is when you hear them give their info, it has an oregon address, and then you hear them give out a local phone number. So they are living hear and still using their oregon ID.

amzbrady said:

Not true, Those none to bright people wait till all their items are rung up and hold up lines while filling out a tax free form so they dont have to pay tax, instead of saying something before hand so you can get the form for them to fill out and still be able to keep ringing out other customers. What really sucks is when you hear them give their info, it has an oregon address, and then you hear them give out a local phone number. So they are living hear and still using their oregon ID.

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Maybe that's more common out your way. Personally, I don't think I've ever been "Stuck behind someone" while they fill out the tax form. I think it's a very small number of people who actually go through the trouble.

I dont think "ALL" of those people would be on the same road at the same time. They are only there on a bus because of a schedule and bus route. Exept for the Ride share thing where people pay like $ .50 cents a ride, get picked up at their door and dropped off at work, like a cheap taxi, there are times I saw it ideling outside of IGA waiting on people while they shopped. I saw this many times in Ocean Shores when I lived there. Also saw alot of transit busses that traveled the 20 miles between Ocean Shores and Aberdeen with 2 or 3 people on them, seems like a huge waste of fuel.

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Aw c'mon, man. It's called rush hour for a reason. That reason is, most people work "banker's hours" and go to and from work at around the same time. That's why they're all on the bus together. And why there's all those other cars on the road together too. That "ride share" thing you're talking about sounds more like paratransit. Some kind of cut-away van with a wheelchair lift, yes? That's a service specifically for the disabled. I don't know that they "wait for people" while they shop, they may have been actively picking up or dropping off. Wheelchairs take a few minutes to secure.

I'm talking about population density here. On that OS-Aberdeen route, the demand is far different than say, Seattle-Bellevue. Every place is gonna have different transit needs, some "need" it more than others. I haven't spent much time out that way so I really don't know much about the local "dynamic" or what the transit system is like. Up here on quite, rural Whidbey Island, we've got Island Transit. For what it is it's very nice and efficient little system. Fare-free, funded entirely by sales tax (which if one of the few taxes I'll support), limited service and hours compared to a Metro, and even they get busses packed to the gills going to & from the ferry at rush hour.

yeah I have missed many a green light waiting for someone to wedge their bike on the front of a bus.

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C'mon, is that really so much of an inconvenience? It's not like there's bike loading at every stop.

amlevin said:

WHAT paying customers????? From 6AM to 7PM, downtown Seattle is a "Free Ride".

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You know what I meant. And Metro is looking at eliminated the DT ride-free area, for that reason and others.

Metalhead47 said:

Maybe that's more common out your way. Personally, I don't think I've ever been "Stuck behind someone" while they fill out the tax form. I think it's a very small number of people who actually go through the trouble.

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When I retired I took a part time job that put me behind a retail counter several days a week. It may not have been a common occurrence for YOU but to the "clerks", we were faced with it several times per day. It's ludicrous when someone goes in to buy parts for their car that has WA license plates on it and whips out their Montana or Oregon Driver's license (and no, we're not talking Military here because the Military Discount was even bigger than the Sales tax amount) and want the Sales Tax removed. I handled it by handing them the 4-page form and sent them to the end of the counter so I could wait on those standing in line.


The real kicker came recently. I saw an invoice from a contractor who performed some major work on a woman's house. She presented her Alaska Driver's License and informed the contractor that she was tax exempt. For materials and labor on a house here in Washington? Don't think so. There are more of these people running around here than you think.

It's also amazing how stupid some are. There is a business on State Avenue in Marysville that has a "company vehicle". The back of the vehicle is painted with the Business Name and Phone Number, both local, and the license plate is an Oregon Plate.

What? Huh? Oh, yeah, FREEDOM rankings...

That was the original post...

The article and the info there was really very interesting. I was shocked that WA was 40 in the overall ranking. Then I started to read what they made their rankings on and I can see it. It's funny but I always joke about "The People's Republic of Oregon" over the border and all their progressive tendencies. Then again, the real problems come from the same place just like WA: the I-5 corridor. Cascadia!