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Thread: In Which RiverRat Learns the Importance of...

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    In Which RiverRat Learns the Importance of...

    ... a neat driveway and a few other things.

    I'm going to wait for him to tell his story before making any snarky comments, but - seriously, dude! How many times do we gotta go over the ground rules before you get them right?

    Putting your gun away when there's an armed stranger in your house who has an argumentative, demanding attitude?

    stay safe.

  2. #2
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, Over?
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

  3. #3
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSC 45ACP View Post
    Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, Over?
    Thank you for asking.

    Brother RiverRat had something happen that he promised to post about. Promises were made to post snarky comments about it - even in advance of his posting of the details. Some promises have been kept. Some promises are still to be kept.

    stay tuned to see if details are forthcoming from Brother RiverRat.

    stay safe.

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    Regular Member riverrat10k's Avatar
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    I had a little talk with the local PD the other day while OC'ing.

    Halfway through the conversation, I secured my firearm somewhere else in my house.

    In hindsight, it was kinda dumb.

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    Quote Originally Posted by riverrat10k View Post
    Halfway through the conversation, I secured my firearm somewhere else in my house.

    In hindsight, it was kinda dumb.
    What were you thinking as you were doing this?

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by riverrat10k View Post
    Halfway through the conversation, I secured my firearm somewhere else in my house.

    In hindsight, it was kinda dumb.
    Tell the whole story, RR. No need to go into why you had the conversation, but tell the whole story. We're all waiting to dogpile you. In a kind, friendly way, of course.

    stay safe.

  7. #7
    Regular Member riverrat10k's Avatar
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    Which part?

    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Tell the whole story, RR. No need to go into why you had the conversation, but tell the whole story. We're all waiting to dogpile you. In a kind, friendly way, of course.

    stay safe.
    Do you mean the part where I was asked repeatedly to show a DRIVERS LICENSE to file a police report? Informed the officer I was NOT driving, just standing there.

  8. #8
    Regular Member riverrat10k's Avatar
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by All American Nightmare View Post
    What were you thinking as you were doing this?
    Officer safety.

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    Quote Originally Posted by riverrat10k View Post
    Do you mean the part where I was asked repeatedly to show a DRIVERS LICENSE to file a police report? Informed the officer I was NOT driving, just standing there.
    Asking is not a demand, police can ask you anything. It's much easier and more accurate to provide a license to a Leo to file a report. I'm sure he could find that information without you anyway. Police ask for licenses because most people use that as identification and have it readily available.

  10. #10
    Regular Member riverrat10k's Avatar
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    I indicated that I would provide any needed info. The officer essentially demanded a picture ID in order to take the report. My wife got mad and provided hers to my objections. The officer never asked me for any ID info again.

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    Asking is not a demand, police can ask you anything. It's much easier and more accurate to provide a license to a Leo to file a report. I'm sure he could find that information without you anyway. Police ask for licenses because most people use that as identification and have it readily available.
    That's funny because I've never been asked for my ID by police. Its always been a demand for ID. Even when it was supposedly only being "requested", my refusal uncovered pretty quick that the "request" was really just a covert demand. They had no intention of letting me actually make my own decision and then respect that.

    RiverRat's report somewhat parallels this. He was "asked" repeatedly. Huh? I suppose he politely declined. But, then why was he asked again and again (for however many repeatedlys there were)?

    Its pretty apparent the police were not willing to respect his right as a free man to not to show his papers.
    Last edited by Citizen; 06-12-2011 at 10:40 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by riverrat10k View Post
    Officer safety.
    Sounds like you had a brainfart right? Expect some teasing at the notch
    Last edited by All American Nightmare; 06-12-2011 at 10:52 PM.

  13. #13
    Regular Member riverrat10k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by All American Nightmare View Post
    Sounds like you had a brainfart right? Expect some teasing at the notch
    yep

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    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    Just like my incident where my WIFE's car was vandalized and I was talking to the cop as was she, and he said he couldn't FILE a report unless I gave him MY Social Security number. I was in my bare feet and a pair of shorts, standing on my sidewalk, and I probably co-signed on the load for her car, but it was in her name.

    We ended up not being able to file a report. I called it in to the sgt the next morning and he says 'It's not mandatory, just tell the officer you'd rather not for privacy reasons'. I replied "I did do that repeatedly and officer (can't recall now) wouldn't do the report". He didn't agree to fix it (the sgt) just told me next time to say that. Sheesh, big help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    SNIP he said he couldn't FILE a report unless I gave him MY Social Security number.
    Oh, ho, ho. There is federal law about a government entity demanding an SSN, and whether that entity has to disclose their purpose in requiring it. There may be penalties for demanding an SSN without giving the required disclosure. Seems to me, I vaguely recall people winning settlements from state and local governments who demanded SSNs in violation of the federal law. Maybe even our own Mike, Supermoderator.
    Last edited by Citizen; 06-13-2011 at 02:28 AM.

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    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    Um, I failed to mention this was about 8-10 years ago.

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Angry

    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    RiverRat's report somewhat parallels this. He was "asked" repeatedly. Huh? I suppose he politely declined. But, then why was he asked again and again (for however many repeatedlys there were)?
    My mother-in-law frequently applies this method. Essentially she wants you do do what she wants and in an effort to wear you down - keeps badgering the same question until you get so tired of hearing it you finally give in just to make it stop.

    Like torture. Passive-aggressive torture.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wylde007 View Post
    My mother-in-law frequently applies this method. Essentially she wants you do do what she wants and in an effort to wear you down - keeps badgering the same question until you get so tired of hearing it you finally give in just to make it stop.

    Like torture. Passive-aggressive torture.
    Countermeasure


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    Regular Member Mr H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Countermeasure... LALALalalalalaaaa

    Fixed it for you...

    ;-))

  20. #20
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Funny thing about the databases Department's keep. The information keeps expanding and they are not subject to the same oversight as things like credit files...mostly because many departments don't admit to keeping them

    It slips out sometimes though
    NovaCop10





    My dept does maintain a database of everyone who is ID'ed to include personal info, friends, description, etc. That database not only helps catch criminals but also helps to contact them if thy are a victim or other issues. And to be honest, most people provide ID upon request because I am respectful and almost always I can find out their info anyway if they refuse (run tags, address, other officers might know them,etc) and I can still take a picture of them if I believe it's necessary.


  21. #21
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by riverrat10k View Post
    I indicated that I would provide any needed info. The officer essentially demanded a picture ID in order to take the report. My wife got mad and provided hers to my objections. The officer never asked me for any ID info again.
    When officer "I make the rules" presents you with such a demand, give in by making a FOIA request.

    Officer, I do not know where you think your ability to demand my information comes from. This is my Freedom of Information Request: Please provide me a copy of the written procedure.......(you know the routine)

    Of course you will have to give your name and address to have a valid FOIA request, but now the "I make the rules" cop will have to report the FOIA request to his supervisors and explain what happened to them. Lots of paperwork involved in a FOIA request. PITA for the supervisor.

    Just my 2 cents
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    When officer "I make the rules" presents you with such a demand, give in by making a FOIA request.

    Officer, I do not know where you think your ability to demand my information comes from. This is my Freedom of Information Request: Please provide me a copy of the written procedure.......(you know the routine)

    Of course you will have to give your name and address to have a valid FOIA request, but now the "I make the rules" cop will have to report the FOIA request to his supervisors and explain what happened to them. Lots of paperwork involved in a FOIA request. PITA for the supervisor.

    Just my 2 cents
    If Officer "I make the rules" is on the ball, s/he'll likely tell you that s/he cannot take your FOIA request, that it needs to be submitted directly to HQ. However, given that s/he is unclear about park rules, it's doubtful that s/he will have the expertise or clever reparte` to dodge the issue.
    Last edited by 2a4all; 07-02-2011 at 10:11 PM.
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    When officer "I make the rules" presents you with such a demand, give in by making a FOIA request.

    Officer, I do not know where you think your ability to demand my information comes from. This is my Freedom of Information Request: Please provide me a copy of the written procedure.......(you know the routine)

    Of course you will have to give your name and address to have a valid FOIA request, but now the "I make the rules" cop will have to report the FOIA request to his supervisors and explain what happened to them. Lots of paperwork involved in a FOIA request. PITA for the supervisor.

    Just my 2 cents
    I don't believe that's entirely accurate.

    As far as I know, the recipient of a FOIA need only refer you to the custodian of the requested record(s) if he himself is not the custodian of the requested record(s).

    Ah, here it is, 2.2-3704.B.3:

    ...However, if the public body that received the request knows that another public body has the requested records, the response shall include contact information for the other public body.

    Not exactly what I was thinking, but I got $5 that says the cop can get away with telling you to contact (whoever handles FOIA requests in their department.)

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