Stopped by WSP tonight

I was pulled over in my car tonight by Washington State Patrol. I pulled over, turned the interior lights on, cracked my window and put my hands on the wheel. The officer charged up to the car and started yelling at me something to the tune of "What were you doing? I didn't want you. I wanted the corvette in front of you but you were weaving and I had to get you." (there was no corvette -- anywhere -- that I could see). He went off with me trying to interject every 5 seconds or so, but he was clearly pissed. When he was done I said "Sir, for your safety and for mine, you should know I have a firearm on my right hip." His face changed from the angry face he had to confused to a strangely relieved face. He asked to see my license. I handed him both my license and my CPL. He checked them out and then said "consider yourself barked at." and let me go. It was a bit strange.

Don't really think I was weaving as I was wide awake, alert and listening to Cam & Company on Sirius Patriot radio. In either case, this is the second time I've been pulled over for "weaving" in the past few months and it's the second time that simply stating what I did resulted in nothing more than a "catch and release." It goes against my nature to give that information, but I thought I'd pass the info along for analysis by the group. Would appreciate thoughts on the encouter, my reaction, the charge of "weaving" and anything else you care to discuss relevant to the subject.

Maybe the guys painting the lines on the road arent getting them straight and the cops just think its you.

http://www.boingboing.net/2011/06/09/miami-cops-intimidat.html

"They put guns to our heads and threw us on the ground," Davis said.

Benoit said a Miami Beach officer grabbed his cell phone, said "You want to be [expletive] Paparazzi?" and stomped on his phone before placing him in handcuffs and shoving the crunched phone in Benoit's back pocket.

He said the couple joined other witnesses already in cuffs and being watched by officers, who were on the lookout for two passengers who, police believe at the time, had bailed out of Herisse's car. It is still not known whether any passengers were in the car.

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The last line is most telling. A justification can always be fabricated, and the entire legal system is set on auto pilot when it comes to police credibility.

Weaving in a lane.

No seat belt.

License plate light out.

Matched a description of a suspect.

Etc.

A good cop can always make up a lie to give him a pretense to pull you over. It sounds like the cop just wanted to see if you were drunk, running drugs, or up to no good -- and that could be more or less likely depending on the time of night, location and the make/model of vehicle you were driving (and it's condition and appearance).

I've yet to be pulled over while carrying (and I do have my CCW), though if I ever was, I would do the same thing. I know the law in WA state says you do not have to inform the officer (PDF), but I'd rather be upfront and cooperative than catch the LEO off guard on a bad day.

I like the way you did it as well. Much better than blurting "Stop talking so I can tell you I have a gun!"

--
Peace. ~G

I was pulled over for weaving by WSP last summer when coming back from Spokane OC meet. It was 2 in the morning I may have very well been weaving. I didn't volunteer I am carrying ( I personally don't feel it's necessary). He had approached from the passenger side saw I was OCing since his flashlight hesitated briefly on it as he swept the interior of my car with it.

He was polite, took my license, (didn't even ask for insurance) asked how far I was going, I told him to the next stop to get a big cup of coffee and then home. He asked if he thought I'd make it I said yes his stop made me very wide awake. He ran my license and let me go. Found out a few day later license was suspended, he didn't make an issue of it.

Your particular officer seemed to have been in a bad mood and was throwing out his fishing net hoping to catch something worthwhile. And I have seen this happen a lot especially at night. Or like the Bellingham Police, who will run my license even when I am not driving to try to find stuff on me. Guess they don't like being corrected by their employers. :lol:

sudden valley gunner said:

Your particular officer seemed to have been in a bad mood and was throwing out his fishing net hoping to catch something worthwhile. And I have seen this happen a lot especially at night. Or like the Bellingham Police, who will run my license even when I am not driving to try to find stuff on me. Guess they don't like being corrected by their employers. :lol:

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Or, given our group's history of experience with the WSP, maybe there really was a "corvette" the OP just didn't see, and the universal "oh chit" reaction of seeing a cop behind him made him weave a little...

sigfan said:

weaving and I had to get you."

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Unless he meant you were dodging in and out of traffic, that's not a reason to pull you over.
cite

1 Washington State's requirement that automobile drivers remain within a single lane of travel “as nearly as practicable” does not impose strict liability.1  A vehicle crossing over a lane once for one second by two tire widths does not, without more, constitute a traffic violation justifying a stop by a police officer.

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That's going over the line. Weaving in a lane, especially, certainly does not qualify.

Tawnos said:

Unless he meant you were dodging in and out of traffic, that's not a reason to pull you over.
cite


That's going over the line. Weaving in a lane, especially, certainly does not qualify.

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I was looking for that but couldn't find the court case, having read that before. Thanks.

Washington is actually pretty strong against pretext stops.

sudden valley gunner said:

Found out a few day later license was suspended, he didn't make an issue of it.

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I don't follow this part. He suspended your license? Or you had it suspended for an offense and didn't know it? You found out by postal mail? Sounds like he let you go on with a suspended license, he saw it at the time and just ignored it. That's not a wise move - what if you were in a fender bender later on down the road - he'd be culpable (IANAL) if you were at fault and opposing lawyer discovered you were allowed to drive on a susp. lic.. This whole thing about LEOs ability to just use discretion is strange and unpredictable, imo.

Glad you got on your way with no hassle.

Badger Johnson said:

I don't follow this part. He suspended your license? Or you had it suspended for an offense and didn't know it? You found out by postal mail? Sounds like he let you go on with a suspended license, he saw it at the time and just ignored it. That's not a wise move - what if you were in a fender bender later on down the road - he'd be culpable (IANAL) if you were at fault and opposing lawyer discovered you were allowed to drive on a susp. lic.. This whole thing about LEOs ability to just use discretion is strange and unpredictable, imo.

Glad you got on your way with no hassle.

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In my community we don't receive mail at our house. So I didn't find out until later it was suspended.....( a continual fight and problem I am having right now mostly due to financial issue). And no I didn't find out until I received a ticket for it like usual.:banghead:

I don't see how he would be culpable, and personally feel that more officers should use more discretion. License has nothing to do with competence in this state anymore it is simply a law enforcement tool and a form of control.

I appreciated the fact and recognized it later that he saw I wasn't up to anything nefarious and let me use my right to travel freely to get back home.

sudden valley gunner said:

I don't see how he would be culpable, and personally feel that more officers should use more discretion. License has nothing to do with competence in this state anymore it is simply a law enforcement tool and a form of control.

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Not culpable???? Sorry but apparently you don't understand the world of Torts and Lawyers.

If you had, just like the other party pointed out, had an accident and it became known that the Trooper had let you go with full knowledge that your license was suspended, even a lousy lawyer could make a case for his culpability.

The person you hit would suddenly have numerous accident induced maladies and not only you would be sued but the State as well.

Yes, the license probably doesn't indicate your ability or lack thereof. It merely indicates the status of your driving priviledge. The Trooper is not empowered to overlook the status for good reason. He merely knows that the status is "suspended" and not the reason. It could be as benign as a lack of payment for a fine, or it could be for killing a group of schoolkids in a crossing while stoned on dope and pickled on alcohol. Suspended to him merely means you can't drive legally. To allow you to drive illegally, when he had the means to prevent you from doing so, makes him culpable in anything that happens later on while you are driving.

Wish it otherwise but that's the way it is.

Simple question. Was is actually suspended at the time of the stop?
Might have been it simply did not show up until after that stop and for the officer it came back as valid. Assuming he ever really ran it.

One would think at the very least he would mention it was suspended and ask for another person to come drive you and the car home. People are correct about an officer not letting you drive away with s suspended license.

Coming from driving some "smaller" cars.. Just being in the wake of a semi trailer can cause a vehicle to drift back and forth in a lane some, let alone some crosswind.

I've been rolled for both, for "weaving". Usually asks why, and the answer is.. "Feel that crosswind?"..

Never gone beyond that.

Deepdiver36 said:

Simple question. Was is actually suspended at the time of the stop?
Might have been it simply did not show up until after that stop and for the officer it came back as valid. Assuming he ever really ran it.

One would think at the very least he would mention it was suspended and ask for another person to come drive you and the car home. People are correct about an officer not letting you drive away with s suspended license.

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We're kind of getting of topic, but I think AM's commentary is the valid assessment, but it MAY have not shown up at the time of the LEO's checking.

I just don't think he would have let you drive on a Sus-Lic. There's no fault on your end SVG, we're just trying to understand the system and the discretion aspect they use.

$.02

VW_Factor said:

Coming from driving some "smaller" cars.. Just being in the wake of a semi trailer can cause a vehicle to drift back and forth in a lane some, let alone some crosswind.

I've been rolled for both, for "weaving". Usually asks why, and the answer is.. "Feel that crosswind?"..

Never gone beyond that.

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It's sounding to me like this 'weaving' thing is used as a pretext. If I ever get pulled and told that, I think I'll ask how to define that 'violation' - within the lane it shouldn't be a charge, even if one is driving in a prolonged serpentine fashion - as long as no white or yellow lines are crossed. It's stupid (in practice) laws like this, impossible to define which are used as 'cause' to stop when, in fact, there is no cause other than profiling the person or the car (red hot rods, for ex.)

$.02

Badger Johnson said:

It's sounding to me like this 'weaving' thing is used as a pretext. If I ever get pulled and told that, I think I'll ask how to define that 'violation' - within the lane it shouldn't be a charge, even if one is driving in a prolonged serpentine fashion - as long as no white or yellow lines are crossed. It's stupid (in practice) laws like this, impossible to define which are used as 'cause' to stop when, in fact, there is no cause other than profiling the person or the car (red hot rods, for ex.)

$.02

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Yknow, motorcycles "weave" in the lane all the time... Can anyone point out WERE in the rcw it defines weaving, or responsibility to stay in lane?


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Metalhead47 said:

Yknow, motorcycles "weave" in the lane all the time... Can anyone point out WERE in the rcw it defines weaving, or responsibility to stay in lane?


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It isn't. That's the point of the earlier cited case. In fact, even weaving and slightly crossing the lane boundaries is acceptable (within reason, defined as two tire widths and some other noise).

amlevin said:

Not culpable???? Sorry but apparently you don't understand the world of Torts and Lawyers.

If you had, just like the other party pointed out, had an accident and it became known that the Trooper had let you go with full knowledge that your license was suspended, even a lousy lawyer could make a case for his culpability.

The person you hit would suddenly have numerous accident induced maladies and not only you would be sued but the State as well.

Yes, the license probably doesn't indicate your ability or lack thereof. It merely indicates the status of your driving priviledge. The Trooper is not empowered to overlook the status for good reason. He merely knows that the status is "suspended" and not the reason. It could be as benign as a lack of payment for a fine, or it could be for killing a group of schoolkids in a crossing while stoned on dope and pickled on alcohol. Suspended to him merely means you can't drive legally. To allow you to drive illegally, when he had the means to prevent you from doing so, makes him culpable in anything that happens later on while you are driving.

Wish it otherwise but that's the way it is.

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I understand torts and understand how things are twisted in the system don't agree with it. And my suspension had nothing to do with bad driving. I could have a full license and have done all the same things. And he could have been sued because he let me drive tired......

Illegal aliens who are breaking the law by being here illegally can get drivers license's.

VW_Factor said:

Coming from driving some "smaller" cars.. Just being in the wake of a semi trailer can cause a vehicle to drift back and forth in a lane some, let alone some crosswind.

I've been rolled for both, for "weaving". Usually asks why, and the answer is.. "Feel that crosswind?"..

Never gone beyond that.

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It was definitely suspended.

Badger Johnson said:

We're kind of getting of topic, but I think AM's commentary is the valid assessment, but it MAY have not shown up at the time of the LEO's checking.

I just don't think he would have let you drive on a Sus-Lic. There's no fault on your end SVG, we're just trying to understand the system and the discretion aspect they use.

$.02

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Since I don't agree with the driving is a privilege idea, I agree with the officers discretion, especially since I was not engaged in any other "criminal" activity. There is also the fact the officer has been through this before and knew that if taken to court the infraction would have been dismissed for several reasons.

I don't believe in proactive law enforcement and encourage and respect officers who use discretion.

sudden valley gunner said:

I understand torts and understand how things are twisted in the system don't agree with it. And my suspension had nothing to do with bad driving. I could have a full license and have done all the same things. And he could have been sued because he let me drive tired......

Illegal aliens who are breaking the law by being here illegally can get drivers license's.



It was definitely suspended.



Since I don't agree with the driving is a privilege idea, I agree with the officers discretion, especially since I was not engaged in any other "criminal" activity. There is also the fact the officer has been through this before and knew that if taken to court the infraction would have been dismissed for several reasons.

I don't believe in proactive law enforcement and encourage and respect officers who use discretion.

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What a backwards freaking society we have. We have criminals comming to this country illegally and our government is embracing it and making it easier for them, letting them invade our country and take it over, and is giving up US soil to mexico because it is unsafe for Americans. We have to carry extra insurance for those that dont have any. We have to carry recording equipment to prove that those who have been hired to uphold the law are illegally harrasing law abiding citizens, and to top it all off, our government have discussed cutting pay to those who are putting their lives on the line to protect this country, and possibly cutting social security for those who worked and payed taxes, so that they can continue to pay welfare to those who are to lazy to work.

Is this really what the masses voted for? Of course more amazing to me is how few Americans care.

Y'all just need to get some baskets and carry them in the back seat.

"Why, yes, officer. I am a weaver. Of course I was weaving."

Or, "No way officer. Nobody is so good he can weave and drive at the same time."