GRNC..." OC is GATTOP...This law eliminates the open carry option..."

EricDailey X-NRA · Jun 14, 2011

Math and Numbers

rotorhead said:
....It's a simple matter of math and numbers, along with the fact that the political process presents very real roadblocks toward the goals of responsible gun owners..... .

Your very long post was full of assertions and conjecture. I missed the "math and numbers" in it. Do you know the data? Have you seen it? Does GRNC know the data? Where is the data to be looked at? Do you know the GRNC policy guidelines? Where are they to be found? Do you have REASON to expect GRNC to do something about OC bans in NC? I don't know why you are not worried. Do you know the limitations of GRNC? What resources do they have? Who is deciding the policy of GRNC on OC in NC? How do you know they aren't asleep at the switch?

How about we figure out if GRNC can become more effective and help them with that? Sometimes it's better to talk about what we can do than just repeat what can't be done.

rotorhead · Jun 14, 2011

EricDailey X-NRA said:
Your very long post was full of assertions and conjecture. I missed the "math and numbers" in it. Do you know the data? Have you seen it? Does GRNC know the data? Where is the date to be looked at? Do you know the GRNC policy guidelines? Where are they to be found? Do you have REASON to expect GRNC to do something about OC bans in NC? I don't know why you are not worried. Do you know the limitations of GRNC? What resources do they have? Who is deciding the policy of GRNC on OC in NC? How do you know they aren't asleep at the switch?

How about we figure out if GRNC can become more effective and help them with that? Sometimes it's better to talk about what we can do than just repeat what can't be done.

The "math and numbers" comment was a broad stroke that encompassed the idea that GRNC only has so much money and volunteers available to use toward their work. Based on this, there's only so many fights they can fight at one time and eventually, someone has to pick which ones to go after and when. Although it may seem like they aren't paying attention to your specific goals, at least they are doing something to help. If you'd like to see them do more, my suggestion would be to either contribute more or volunteer more of your time, or both.

If that isn't possible, then perhaps you can reach some of the leadership through email to voice your concerns directly to them, as men should. I have contacted their leadership on several occasions with some of my past concerns and all of the responses were timely and presented their side clearly. They won't hide from legitimate concerns from their membership, or the general public for that matter.

Other options include dropping your support and finding another group that will perform in a more positive manner toward your personal goals. Or better yet, you could start your own group and concentrate your efforts in that way. This would insure that your specific goals are the ones on the front burner at all times.

However, I won't waste any more of your time, or mine, with what you deem to be "conjecture". Based on your last post, I understand that you don't like very long responses so I'll keep this one short.

As for doing the research for you that you requested, I will again direct you toward contacting their leadership through emails or phone calls to get specifics. They would have much better information than I have on their activities, and it would also help keep my responses within a reasonable size to aid in your reading enjoyment.

EricDailey X-NRA · Jun 14, 2011

Okay

rotorhead said:
... you can reach some of the leadership through email ...

Who/what email do you recommend?

rotorhead · Jun 14, 2011

EricDailey X-NRA said:
Who/what email do you recommend?

You can reach the main leadership from their contact page here:

http://grnc.org/contacta.htm

They have it broken down so you can choose who best to contact depending on your specific concerns (such as current legislation, leadership, volunteer info, etc) by clicking under the appropriate name/ area of concern. Under the email contact list you can find their mailing address along with a couple of phone numbers and a fax number.

I have emailed a few of them and they always have replied in a timely manner. Sometimes I agreed with their responses and in other cases we simply came to a point where we were not going to agree. Just depended on the issue we were talking about at the time. Either way, I do appreciate the fact that they put effort into each response in a timely manner, and every response contained our mutual respect toward each other and each other's position.

I hope you can get the answers you're wanting soon. Best to you.

mekender · Jun 14, 2011

Badger Johnson said:
If an archer back from bowhunting target practice walks into a Mall and several people are scared - can these people be arrested under the statute or is it only applicable if a HG or rifle or projectile weapon?

Since GATTOTP involves using a dangerous and unusual weapon, I would imagine that a bow would qualify.

Stupid law, imo. Impossible to apply, explain or adjudicate.

Which is probably why it is rarely if ever charged as a stand alone offense and almost always tossed in as an addon to lists of other charges when a person is arrested.

mekender · Jun 14, 2011

EricDailey X-NRA said:
Who/what email do you recommend?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=GRNC+Contact+Info

EricDailey X-NRA · Jun 14, 2011

Not So Helpful

rotorhead said:
You can reach the main leadership from their contact page here:

http://grnc.org/contacta.htm

This looks like you don't really know anyone at GRNC.
Tell us if you KNOW anything about GRNC at all.
ANY facts, people, numbers, any emails. any staff, any Board members. Any?

Grass Roots North Carolina
P.O. Box 10684
Phone: 919-664-8565 - Fax: 919-562-4137
GRNC HotLine: 919-562-4137

Volunteer information and GRNC activities
Bryan Yerke
volunteer@grnc.org

Current Legislation
Jeff Rau
legislativeteam@grnc.org

Membership Information
John Skolaut
membership@grnc.org

GRNC Office and Information About the GRNC Office
Alan Roberts
officemanager@grnc.org

GRNC Newsletter and information about GRNC
Paul Valone
pres@grnc.org

GRNC E-Mail alerts
Keith Jones
alert@grnc.org

GRNC Political Victory Fund
Grant Gardner
grncpvf@grnc.org

Questions for GRNC leadership
Paul Valone
pres@grnc.org

Web Related Questions
Bruce Terry
webmaster@grnc.org

NRAWOL.net

GRNC sponsors

Hyatt Gun Shop, 3332 Wilkinson Blvd., Charlotte, NC 28208, 704-394-0387, www.hyattguns.com

C & E Gun Shows, 4225 Fortress Drive, Blacksburg, VA 24060; Phone 540-953-0016 or 888-715-
0606; http://www.cegunshows.com/

Dixie Gun and Knife Shows, PO Box 21049, Raleigh, NC 27619, ph: 919-781-1287, www.dixiegunandknifeshow.com/

Ryan & Nina Leonard, Down South Ammo, Home of "SOUTHERN THUNDER" Exploding Targets, http://downsouthammo.com/

Duncan Gun & Pawn, 414 Second St., North Wilkesboro, NC 28659, 336-667-6303, www.duncangun.com

Shooter's Express, 2 Caldwell Dr., Belmont, NC 28012, 800-358-GUNS, www.shootersexpress.com

The Aisle Pawn Shop, 216 N. Main St., Mooresville, NC 28115, 704-663-5656

Gunner's Alley, LLC, 203 N. Harrison Ave., Ste. 130, Cary, NC 27513, www.gunnersalley.com, 919-388-1991, contact: Ed Guerriero, ed@gunnersalley.com

Lake Norman Firearms, Inc., 20823 N. Main Street, Cornelius, NC 28031, www.lknfirearms.com, 704-892-7839

Vanguard Security Consulting, LLC, 19135 W. Catawba Ave, Cornelius, NC 28031

DoubleD Media, 8300 Raintree Lane, Charlotte, NC 28277, ph: 704-650-5555, fx: 704-544-0326, donna@doubledme.com

papa bear · Jun 14, 2011

maybe a side note. but what cities in NC ban OC ?

chiefjason · Jun 14, 2011

papa bear said:
maybe a side note. but what cities in NC ban OC ?

Chapel Hill and Cary have restrictions for sure. Cary restricts OC on public property to include sidewalks and roads. Chapel Hill has a size restriction against OC'ing an easily concealed handgun. Kind of dumb. There have been issues in Durham and Raleigh, but I've never seen hard and fast restrictions.

However, city firearms statutes do not apply on private property. They can only restrict carry on property that they actually own. But I suggest comparing the state uniformity statute to the city and county firearms statutes and deciding for yourself.

cricketdad · Jun 14, 2011

EricDailey X-NRA said:
If I can, I'd like to find out what is being done to address this problem about our "friends" and how are we gonna help them overcome their anxiety and act like men.

I also need a better idea of GRNC's goals because I don't have much evidence that GRNC knows and cares about OC. If we're supporting GRNC we need to know what they are planning and so far that's a little hard to find out.

We shouldn't get bamboozled by stories about how tough it is. Policy for how to fix the bad 2A laws in NC should be guided by data and numbers. If GRNC can't tell us the data that is driving their work then we got a problem.

Addressing the problem, I am going to ASSUME that you recieve GRNC alerts and respond to them. GRNC has a legislative team that fields 5 to 7 people to the General Assembly whenever a pro or anti gun bill is being worked on. Your (plural) emails reinforce the legilative teams visit and gets results.

Sadly politicians are guided by polls and the fear of losing votes.

Goals, I believer thaere were about 15 pro gun bills introduced and about 10 were written by GRNC.

Not sure what you mean by what data drive us. Bad laws and input from our membership is what we use to set our agenda.

cricketdad · Jun 14, 2011

EricDailey X-NRA said:
This looks like you don't really know anyone at GRNC.
Tell us if you KNOW anything about GRNC at all.
ANY facts, people, numbers, any emails. any staff, any Board members. Any?
]

Rotorhead knows one board member, me

EricDailey X-NRA · Jun 14, 2011

Very Glad to hear it

cricketdad said:
Rotorhead know one board member, me

Perhaps you will tell us the GRNC policy on fixing OC laws in NC.

rotorhead · Jun 14, 2011

EricDailey X-NRA said:
This looks like you don't really know anyone at GRNC.
Tell us if you KNOW anything about GRNC at all.
ANY facts, people, numbers, any emails. any staff, any Board members. Any?

I linked the contact page because I'm not aware of anyone there who is the designated "OC Representative" or whatever. I figured you could figure out who to send a note to on your own.

What you're trying to do now is draw me out in a rather weak attempt to use me as an example of people who don't have a clue about their activities, thereby showing that they are ineffective and useless on the issue of OC. If you haven't noticed yet, I'm not playing your game. I'm keeping it open-ended in the hopes that you contact them about the issue.

My knowledge of GRNC is no more or less than anyone else's who did a little research about them before joining. From there it grew to meeting a few folks and learning more through personal contact concerning their positions, actions, resources, goals, legislative activities, etc.

You're asking me things that can be better explained by them, simple as that. Once again, take a minute and contact them and do a little research. I don't do my own kid's homework so I'm certainly not going to do yours. If you want pie charts, graphs, financial data, legislative records, or whatever, you'd be better served by contacting them as they keep those kinds of records. I don't.

Is there anything else I can do or say to make it any clearer?

chiefjason · Jun 15, 2011

Mention of OC in HB 650 that is headed to the Gov's desk.

(c3) As provided in G.S. 14-269.4(5), it shall be lawful for a person to carry any firearm 18 openly, or to carry a concealed handgun with a concealed carry permit, at any State-owned rest 19 area, at any State-owned rest stop along the highways, and at any State-owned hunting and 20 fishing reservation.

Page 9 line 17.

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/gascrip...p.pl?Session=2011&BillID=H650&votesToView=all

Would have liked to see more. We got some good in this one, and lost some things I really wanted.

cricketdad · Jun 15, 2011

EricDailey X-NRA said:
Perhaps you will tell us the GRNC policy on fixing OC laws in NC.

As I said before, membership imput.

Speaking for myself only.

In the 12+ years I have been doing gun shows, I don't remember anyone anyone approaching me about open carry. That includes working in Charlotte, Fayetteville, Winston Salem, Greensboro, Greenville, New Bern, Jacksonville, Wilmington and Raleigh.

I don't remember anyone coming to an annual meeting and speaking on the issue.

For me, OC is a new concept. I knew it was legal but never thought much about it. Since being on this forum I have learned a lot. I no longer worry about whether my firearm is covered or not. My wife no longer reminds me to cover up.

If you have been paying attention to the media blitz that has been going on against changing the conceal carry laws, imagine the field day they would have with OMG They want to carry a GUN someone can SEE.

OC is not going to change this year or next. Start planning now for 2014.

rotorhead · Jun 15, 2011

cricketdad said:
As I said before, membership imput.

Speaking for myself only.

In the 12+ years I have been doing gun shows, I don't remember anyone anyone approaching me about open carry. That includes working in Charlotte, Fayetteville, Winston Salem, Greensboro, Greenville, New Bern, Jacksonville, Wilmington and Raleigh.

I don't remember anyone coming to an annual meeting and speaking on the issue.

For me, OC is a new concept. I knew it was legal but never thought much about it. Since being on this forum I have learned a lot. I no longer worry about whether my firearm is covered or not. My wife no longer reminds me to cover up.

If you have been paying attention to the media blitz that has been going on against changing the conceal carry laws, imagine the field day they would have with OMG They want to carry a GUN someone can SEE.

OC is not going to change this year or next. Start planning now for 2014.

Maybe it's due to the fact that I OC every day and do not CC, but I do get quite a few questions from others concerning OC. I'm actually surprised at the amount of people who are not aware that carrying a gun is legal in this state. I think I took the idea for granted. I know that many people simply never consider it one way or the other due to various reasons.

Honestly, I'd love to see all new gun legislation include OC as well as CC. I don't have a CC permit nor am I inclined to get one any time soon. The issue still gets under my skin at times, but I'm aware of the nature of the legislative beast, and also mindful of what we are up against. No matter how passionate we are when it comes to gun legislation, the General Assembly in Raleigh has a host of other issues to deal with and there's only so much time to deal with it during a legislative year.

Add to that the numerous tricks and maneuvering used by legislators during the process and it becomes clear just how hard it is to get even a morsel of positive gun legislation even brought to the floor, never mind actually passed.

With that, I do want to put out a public apology to EricDailey X-NRA. My last post wasn't the most congenial that I could make it. Chalk it up to a rough few days and ignore the pointedness of some of my words.

I do encourage you to take a good look at the process involved with getting these bills introduced, fed through the House and Senate, and eventually either brought up to a vote or attached to other bills for passage. It's incredibly frustrating and resources are limited. Sometimes GRNC has to make a decision about which bills to push based on a number of factors and even though they would love to include other things, doing that would most likely kill any attempt to get bills introduced in the first place.

We've seen great progress in this past year. I can't remember another year in recent memory that has seen so many positive gun legislative bills introduced, never mind actually getting as far as the current ones have. This isn't just GRNC, this is about state legislators who have had the courage to work with these bills, too. As well, all of us who have done little more than send an email of encouragement have helped.

Sadly, some of these things simply won't make it to a full vote or pass by being attached to larger bills that get signed into law. This is due to a number of reasons, but none of them include GRNC or vigilant citizens falling asleep at the wheel. We've done what we could but time and a strong opposition are constantly working against us.

Again, I encourage you to contact any of the people listed on the GRNC contact page for further and more detailed information. They are the ones who can break it down further for you in more intelligent terms than I can. I'm actually on your side and would love to see more attention to OC in legislation. Perhaps if the leadership at GRNC hears more intelligent appeals for the issue they can possibly find ways to add more to bills in the near future.

All said and done, though, they are only so big and so influential. The real heat should be placed squarely on where it should be: upon the shoulders of weak politicians who have a knack for nodding their heads "yes" while taking to us and shaking their heads "no" when voting.

Best of luck to you and your endeavors.

EricDailey X-NRA · Jun 15, 2011

Well Engaged

rotorhead said:
Maybe it's due to the fact that I OC every day and do not CC, but I do get quite a few questions from others concerning OC. I'm actually surprised at the amount of people who are not aware that carrying a gun is legal in this state.

Honestly, I'd love to see all new gun legislation include OC as well as CC. I don't have a CC permit nor am I inclined to get one any time soon. The issue still gets under my skin at times, but I'm aware of the nature of the legislative beast, and also mindful of what we are up against.

... to EricDailey X-NRA...... to a rough few days ...

I do encourage you to take a good look at the process involved with getting these bills introduced, fed through the House and Senate, and eventually either brought up to a vote or attached to other bills for passage.

Again, I encourage you to contact any of the people listed on the GRNC contact page for further and more detailed information. I'm actually on your side and would love to see more attention to OC in legislation. Perhaps if the leadership at GRNC hears more intelligent appeals for the issue they can possibly find ways to add more to bills in the near future.

Best of luck to you and your endeavors.

You've made good recommendations and I thank you. I will follow through. We ARE on the same side and it's our day in the sun. We gonna' make hay. This thread is a good one from which we are all learning much. Thanks to OCDO for the opportunity. We have great prospects. Regular members of this forum can make good use of all of this.

EricDailey X-NRA · Jun 15, 2011

HB 650: no new OC in NC, we got nothin'

chiefjason said:
Mention of OC in HB 650 that is headed to the Gov's desk.

(c3) As provided in G.S. 14-269.4(5), it shall be lawful for a person to carry any firearm 18 openly, or to carry a concealed handgun with a concealed carry permit, at any State-owned rest 19 area, at any State-owned rest stop along the highways, and at any State-owned hunting and 20 fishing reservation.

Page 9 line 17.

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/gascrip...p.pl?Session=2011&BillID=H650&votesToView=all

Would have liked to see more. We got some good in this one, and lost some things I really wanted.

This "mention" of OC is only because it is already law. This only refers to existing law of G.S. 14-269.4(5) banning weapons on state properties but that allows some exceptions. The new bill H650 does NOT add any OC in NC.

This is the correct link for ... page 9, line 17...(c3) As provided in G.S. 14-269.4(5),

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/Sessions/2011/Bills/House/PDF/H650v4.pdf

EricDailey X-NRA · Jun 15, 2011

It's good your're here.

cricketdad said:
As I said before, membership imput.

Speaking for myself only.

In the 12+ years I have been doing gun shows, I don't remember anyone anyone approaching me about open carry. That includes working in Charlotte, Fayetteville, Winston Salem, Greensboro, Greenville, New Bern, Jacksonville, Wilmington and Raleigh.
I don't remember anyone coming to an annual meeting and speaking on the issue.
For me, OC is a new concept. I knew it was legal but never thought much about it. Since being on this forum I have learned a lot. I no longer worry about whether my firearm is covered or not. My wife no longer reminds me to cover up.
If you have been paying attention to the media blitz that has been going on against changing the conceal carry laws, imagine the field day they would have with OMG They want to carry a GUN someone can SEE.
OC is not going to change this year or next. Start planning now for 2014.

You should be getting some input for GRNC here on OCDO. I sure hope you will take the OC issue to the others at GRNC. Please let us know how to get across to the rest of them that CC is a compromise and an infringement of the Second Amendment. Please let us know how we can find out what they are thinking. Please tell me why I should not worry that they are asleep at the switch. How do I find out they are planning anything to change OC? How do I find out?

chiefjason · Jun 16, 2011

EricDailey X-NRA said:
This "mention" of OC is only because it is already law. This only refers to existing law of G.S. 14-269.4(5) banning weapons on state properties but that allows some exceptions. The new bill H650 does NOT add any OC in NC.

This is the correct link for ... page 9, line 17...(c3) As provided in G.S. 14-269.4(5),

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/Sessions/2011/Bills/House/PDF/H650v4.pdf

Yeah, all it does is spell out plainly that OC and CC are legal instead of that sometimes grey area where not prohibited is allowed. I chuckled every time someone on the TV mentioned the rest area bit. Just like being able to lock your firearm in your car at a city or county park. We can already do both. They just spelled it out for those that can't connect the dots.

GRNC..." OC is GATTOP...This law eliminates the open carry option..."

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