SSA2 for SB93. This is what they will be voting on Tuesday 6/14.

slam dunk permit system....................................damn.

siefly said:

Illinois running Jauch (D) voted for the bill! He hates the 2nd amendment. Now thats a flip-flop. He can really be trusted by his supporters. Spends all of his time arguing against it and then votes for it. LOL.

Siefly

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Becasue he knows he can debate in any manner he chooses and the majority will never know. His voting record is immortal. Or I should say permaninet.

BROKENSPROKET said:

Amazing. Taylor said the she will join in the victory and vote in favor.

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Nice, now another anti will most likely get an A rating from the NRA :banghead:.

ArcticF7SnoPro said:

So from what I am reading of this I will be able to conceal and drive around in my car, boat or so on all day long with my hand gun, but if I where to do this with my uncased and loaded AR I would still be breaking the law?

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You are right, HANDGUNS only!!!!!!!

McX said:

Church is ok

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They have to post just like any other private business.
Only fair; if someplace is proud of being anti-rights, they should show it.
Wish they hadn't made the exception for Summerfest.
How many other venues will try to weasel in under that?
(BTW, is it only Summerfest, or any event at the Summerfest grounds? Where is it in SSA2? 'Cause I know it wasn't one of the amendments that passed.)

delay on startup for car carry

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Unless the Assembly adds it, then the Senate has to vote on only that, then it can go to the Gov.
Only problem if it starts immediately is the "GF"SZ issue.

unloaded and encased for free man school zone transport, lock thing died?

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U&E, yes, but now it has to be locked.
Whoever put that reference to the federal law in there either didn't know what they were doing, or knew that they were making the law more strict. Either way, it's bad.
Of course, if the federal law is changed or repealed, WI law would be too.
And if you have a lock that you can close or spin the dial on as you're being pulled over...

training element ended up being almost a joke huh? take your class online.

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Yep. But training is SO important! It'll stop the criminals from carrying, donchaknow?
:banghead:
As soon as the application is available, I'm printing off my MD certificate & sending it in.
As soon as the Gov signs the bill into law, assuming the training req's don't change, we need to make a big push to make people aware of the MD option. Craigslist, signs @ ranges & stores, comments in news articles, anything.

There are too many trainers trying to make money off this, advertising "this class will let you get a WI permit!", even before the bill becomes law. Probably, yes it will. But don't count on it, & don't tell people things you don't know are true.
Get training because it's the right thing for your situation.

oliverclotheshoff said:

so does thhe website MKEGAL found about the free training still hold water

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IDK, but be patient. A Wisocnisn state organization, we all know, will have certified instructors giving FREE Handgun Safety Training.

HandyHamlet said:

Oh Lord. Risser again. So this is what untreated syphilis looks like.

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Sweet Jesus, I just pissed my knickers :lol:

does the website MKEgal found about the free training still hold water

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As the bill stands now, yes. As long as the Assembly doesn't screw it up.
After all, how could anyone possibly get around "safety training offered to the public by a law enforcement agency"?
I mean, that seems like something it's impossible to "loophole", right? :innocent look:
And you know that's what they're going to be calling the MD class.

And as sprocket pointed out, there are instructors who have pledged to WI Carry that they will offer free training sufficient to meet whatever requirements WI, well, requires.

Got a question, though...
If the fee for the initial license can be no more than $37 + $13 for the background check,
and in order to get a renewal license the fee can be no more than $12 (see pg 8 here),
and the renewal includes a form (like the initial permit did),
& a background check (like the initial permit did),
& probably a new card...
WHY does the initial permit cost up to $50?
Looks like on the renewals they're not even covering what they charge for the background check.
Or else they're soaking people for the initial permit.

MKEgal said:

As the bill stands now, yes. As long as the Assembly doesn't screw it up.
And as sprocket pointed out, there are instructors who have pledged to WI Carry that they will offer free training sufficient to meet whatever requirements WI, well, requires.

Got a question, though...
If the fee for the initial license can be no more than $37 + $13 for the background check,
and in order to get a renewal license the fee can be no more than $12 (see pg 8 here),
and the renewal includes a form (like the initial permit did),
& a background check (like the initial permit did),
& probably a new card...
WHY does the initial permit cost up to $50?
Looks like on the renewals they're not even covering what they charge for the background check.
Or else they're soaking people for the initial permit.

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Because no one listened to us that Constitutional Carry will cost less money...But you do raise a good question.

this thread has been viewed 4660 times wow

MKEgal said:

Wish they hadn't made the exception for Summerfest.
How many other venues will try to weasel in under that?
(BTW, is it only Summerfest, or any event at the Summerfest grounds? Where is it in SSA2? 'Cause I know it wasn't one of the amendments that passed.)

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I didn't watch to know what they are referencing but here is what I'm calling the Summerfest clause:

SECTION 78. 943.13 (1e) (h) of the statutes is created to read:
943.13 (1e) (h) "Special event" means an event that is open to the public, is for
a duration of not more than 3 weeks, and either has designated entrances to and from
the event that are locked when the event is closed or requires an admission.

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Covers a lot of events, most street type gatherings should be good. Of course they don't have to post and hopefully in time they will get smart. All I know is if something happens to me and I could have prevented it but their sign stopped me, I am going to try and sue. If someone can sue McDonald's for making them fat or spilling hot coffee on themselves I should be able to find an ambulance chaser too.

U&E, yes, but now it has to be locked.
Whoever put that reference to the federal law in there either didn't know what they were doing, or knew that they were making the law more strict. Either way, it's bad.
Of course, if the federal law is changed or repealed, WI law would be too.
And if you have a lock that you can close or spin the dial on as you're being pulled over...

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Hate to say it but a part of me is sorta glad, I might just be upset though. I've talked to a bunch of "sportsman" recently and most are against any form of carry and certainly without permits and training. Many try and tell me the law regarding Open carry and usually starts out as you can't do that! at least right now I don't mind upsetting (my first response was censored) the fudds, now maybe they will get on our side and help fix these crazy laws instead of taking for granted the exceptions that are always carved out for hunters.

oliverclotheshoff said:

this thread has been viewed 4660 times wow

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4001 are me. I keep checking in expecting this thread to not be here.

"Is this real life?"

MKEgal said:

Looks like on the renewals they're not even covering what they charge for the background check.

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Plus background fee.

(15) LICENSE EXPIRATION AND RENEWAL. (a) Except as provided in par. (e) and
sub. (9r) (b), a license issued under this section is valid for a period of 5 years from
the date on which the license is issued unless the license is suspended or revoked
under sub. (14).
(b) The department shall design a notice of expiration form. At least 90 days
before the expiration date of a license issued under this section, the department shall
mail to the licensee a notice of expiration form and a form for renewing the license.
The department shall renew the license if, no later than 90 days after the expiration
date of the license, the licensee does all of the following:
1. Submits a renewal application on the form provided by the department.
2. Submits a statement reporting that the information provided under subd.
1. is true and complete to the best of his or her knowledge and that he or she is not
disqualified under sub. (3).
4. Pays all of the following:
a. A renewal fee in an amount, as determined by the department by rule, that
is equal to the cost of renewing the license but does not exceed $12. The department
shall determine the costs of renewing a license by using a 5−year planning period.
b. A fee for a background check that is equal to the fee chargng a license by using a 5−year planning period.
ed under s. 175.35

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Finally!

And Lena?

Jason in WI said:

the Summerfest clause

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Yeah, I eventually found it; bottom of pg 11.

Another thing that changed, or at least looks like it changed (& I don't see any angst about) is the signage requirement. It went from 8.5 x 11" and blaze orange to 5x7" with no particular description of what the sign must look like or say.
That's something we need to jump on once the bill is law, get it changed back so the signs are impossible to miss... by us or criminals.

part of me is sorta glad... now maybe [sportmen] will get on our side and help fix these crazy laws instead of taking for granted the exceptions that are always carved out for hunters.

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Yeah... how many hunters will get tickets for improper transport because they don't have their rifle case locked? Better yet, how many will be hauled out of their trucks at gunpoint?
Although the state law still has that "knows or has reasonable cause to believe" clause in the school zone part, so hunters in an unfamiliar town might be able to weasel their way out of paying a ticket...
But the federal law still requires lockage, & has no weasel clause.

Holy cow! See pg. 16, where they're talking about money...
They're going to pay $62,300 for ONE full-time position.
And $17,440 for 6-month limited positions. (I'd take one of those, if I can work online or from an office in the Milwaukee area! Commuting would/will be difficult after this summer.)


ETA: Thanks, Jason. I was looking at the LRB memo, not the text of the bill. Silly me, I thought the LRB would include important points.
Still leaves the question of how a renewal license, which requires all the same fiddling around as the original, other than the basic data entry, can cost 1/3 as much as the original. (And we all know they're going to charge the maximum allowed under the bill.)

MKEgal said:

They're going to pay $62,300 for ONE full-time position.
And $17,440 for 6-month limited positions.

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And people wonder why we weren't jumping for joy. Just take what they gave us and be happy guy. This bill is WAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better. Quit your tantrum.

$62,300 a year. To push paper. Unf@cking believable. Isn't that like $20 grand over the median wage in this state? Less government. Balanced budget. Blahblahblahblahblah. Wonder whose relative gets this job.

:banghead:

HandyHamlet said:

And people wonder why we weren't jumping for joy. Just take what they gave us and be happy guy. This bill is WAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better. Quit your tantrum.

$62,300 a year. To push paper. Unf@cking believable. Isn't that like $20 grand over the median wage in this state? Less government. Balanced budget. Blahblahblahblahblah. Wonder whose relative gets this job.

:banghead:

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I take it you have never worked in Management or Administration. Pushing paper? Really? $62,300 is not alot. Especially if the have to be an attorney.

I doesn't matter. The legislation has made appropriations to get the system in place. The incoming license fees repay that appropriation so that by the end of the bienium, there is no cost to the taxpayer.

I know that you are not the only one, but are you trying to prove that a conserviative can ignore facts just like a liberal. Seroiusly, I am not happy that Constitutional Carry failed, but I am not going to twist the truth becasue of it.

MKEgal said:

Another thing that changed, or at least looks like it changed (& I don't see any angst about) is the signage requirement. It went from 8.5 x 11" and blaze orange to 5x7" with no particular description of what the sign must look like or say.

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I have no idea why they changed that! If I remember the in the vote to pass the budget committee, all they keep talking about was how people would be confused on where they would be able to carry so we shouldn't pass the bill till it was fixed (ban everywhere in their minds) and then they take away the easy visual reference. Now we are going to have to look up and down for something that isn't universal :banghead: :cuss:. I don't think the antis wanted it that small because they sure don't want us near them with our firearms

Well if we can keep control after the recalls maybe we can fix that swiftly before they start handing out trespass tickets.

BROKENSPROKET said:

You are right, HANDGUNS only!!!!!!!

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Well, I've got an AR lower sold and documented as a pistol.

BROKENSPROKET said:

I take it you have never worked in Management or Administration. Pushing paper? Really? $62,300 is not alot. Especially if the have to be an attorney.

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Say what? It's $20 grand more than your neighbor makes. For the job of keeping track of paperwork for licenses. And I'm sure you are right. In the spirit of less government and bureaucracy I'm sure this dept will grow endlessly. And eventually they will bring in managers and administrators to watch over the dudes getting paid $17,000.

The incoming license fees repay that appropriation so that by the end of the bienium, there is no cost to the taxpayer.

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uh. say what? Who pays the licensing fee? Let me guess. The tax payer? And when some official's kid needs a job, and the licensing office grows beyond it's budget?

Will you stand corrected or are you going to prove that a conserviative can ignore facts just like a liberal. Seroiusly, I am not happy that Constitutional Carry failed, but I am not going to twist the truth becasue of it.

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What the f*ck are you talking about? Are you calling me a "conservative". I thought personal attacks were against the forum rules. And I'm a liar because the average income in Wisco is $40 something a year?

Have another drink.