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Thread: Wisdom from the Sages

  1. #1
    Founder's Club Member Jojo712's Avatar
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    Wisdom from the Sages

    Folks,

    I was reading StogieC's 5 minute handbook when I stumbled upon some simple truths that, I assume, we either learn along the way or ignore all throughout life.

    Avoid hotheads, stick around, and make your politics multi-dimensional: these are life lessons, and I appreciate them. As much as I've wanted to give up my NRA membership, or tell folks who aren't moving quickly enough to get with the program or I'm out, the perspective in this handbook is invaluable. At the end of the day, folks, we may want things quicker or slower or clearer or more streamlined, but our goals align: we want OC and we want a better and safer world.


    Sticking around is something I will do. You can't change things from the outside, so what I need to do is get deeper in. The NRA and Floridacarry will hear from me (especially about their websites, forums, and getting the message out, but also -- and most imortantly, about conceding). StogieC, BrBoyer, Rich: you can count on my $50 exec membership in perpetuity, but you can also count on someone who will expect a fire to be lit under your a$$es (as if it weren't already). NRA: I'm not going anywhere, but I won't pull any punches either.

    Make friends with the politicians: the heck with the form letters. More door-knocking and less typing. Let's not forget that these folks spend 8-9 months of the year in our districts, not in Tally. Let's knock on doors.
    Avoid hotheads and avoid becoming one. As I said, we are here for the same thing, and the last thingnwe want to do is come off as nuts. Laws change slowly and we need to work under the law's rules. If it took us so long to get from Plessy to Brown, picture how long it'll get to finally achieve what we want (even though we get closer every year).

    So here I thank Floridacarry and the NRA for what they've done (and continue to do), and pledge to stay busy despite this year's disappointment. Thanks for the added perspective.

  2. #2
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    I suppose I must humble myself and go talk to lord Dean sooner rather than later. I doubt it will help. It might help if different people go at different times between now and January. That might give him pause. He's already taken a blow for his septic tank crap. I've downloaded the committee hearing when he gave his anti OC speech where he said that the perceived safety of some leo's throughout the state was more important than the rights of his constituents.

    If what Chris said Evers said is accurate, then I will do it. Rich said no attempt at full licensed OC next year. Evers said not til April 2013, but Chris said he talked to him last week and he'll try again in 2012 to strike "briefly" before the end of next session. If not and we have to wait til 2013 I don't really see the point-I'll knock on doors for Baxley's campaign against him (he still won't confirm if he's running or not).
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    And all that was written on the wall already,so to speak,Zach.
    Which is why we need to get some folks to step up, as Crash has, and take a run for it,and to support those who do in whatever ways we can.

    I cant get my head around the concept that folks who want this right are somehow more willing to piss in the fan by begging the same crooks over and over again, yet are not quiet so willing to get behind and support someone who they wont have to beg and grovel before.

    By all means continue with "events" and begging, but a number of us are seeing that as something of a lost cause, and a waste of time and energy. At least by itself. You have the carrot, now get behind the stick-and start swinging like you really want this.

  4. #4
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    And all that was written on the wall already,so to speak,Zach.
    Which is why we need to get some folks to step up, as Crash has, and take a run for it,and to support those who do in whatever ways we can.

    I cant get my head around the concept that folks who want this right are somehow more willing to piss in the fan by begging the same crooks over and over again, yet are not quiet so willing to get behind and support someone who they wont have to beg and grovel before.

    By all means continue with "events" and begging, but a number of us are seeing that as something of a lost cause, and a waste of time and energy. At least by itself. You have the carrot, now get behind the stick-and start swinging like you really want this.
    And I applaud Crash's efforts. At the least it should raise awareness of OC as an issue. But Crash will not win. Maybe he can make his opponents pro, or at least not against, open carry. But he won't win. I'm not going to run for Senate here. I don't have the money to put up a billboard on 441 for OC. So we have to work with what we have to a great extent. This is the reality of the situation.
    Last edited by 77zach; 06-14-2011 at 09:34 AM.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Mas49.56's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    I suppose I must humble myself and go talk to lord Dean sooner rather than later. I doubt it will help. It might help if different people go at different times between now and January. That might give him pause. He's already taken a blow for his septic tank crap. I've downloaded the committee hearing when he gave his anti OC speech where he said that the perceived safety of some leo's throughout the state was more important than the rights of his constituents.

    If what Chris said Evers said is accurate, then I will do it. Rich said no attempt at full licensed OC next year. Evers said not til April 2013, but Chris said he talked to him last week and he'll try again in 2012 to strike "briefly" before the end of next session. If not and we have to wait til 2013 I don't really see the point-I'll knock on doors for Baxley's campaign against him (he still won't confirm if he's running or not).
    If Evers can get the strike "briefly" bill to a floor vote next year, it will be useful to make the anti freedom legislators have go on record and not hide. Even if it does not pass it will be useful. It needs to be a naked attempt and not part of any package legislation so the NRA can't throw us under the bus again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    And I applaud Crash's efforts. At the least it should raise awareness of OC as an issue. But Crash will not win. Maybe he can make his opponents pro, or at least not against, open carry. But he won't win. I'm not going to run for Senate here. I don't have the money to put up a billboard on 441 for OC. So we have to work with what we have to a great extent. This is the reality of the situation.
    Well the only thing that would really keep him from winning is exactly that attitude. That desire to stick to what's supposedly the "safe bet". All that accomplishes is to continue feeding the same failed cycle over and over. Re-cycling the same 1 or 2 knuckleheads from the same 2 failed parties over and over.

    Take a look at most district Senate and Rep races coming up- most of the districts dont even have anyone running against who's in now. The same clowns keep getting shoo-in's by default.

    Now what incentive does a Sen. or a Rep. in such a district have to change their ways?
    Why should they support the things folks come begging them for? What are the people going to do? Vote em out of office? For who? There's no opposition running.
    And for that matter, what choices are the voters left with, but the same crap year after year. There's no wonder theres so much apathy among voters. On one hand they have a choice between the lesser of 2 evils, or they have no options at all,really. No one else to vote for. So why not give them that option, AND get someone in you dont have to rage about in a forum the next time they shaft you in thanks for thier support?

  7. #7
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mas49.56 View Post
    If Evers can get the strike "briefly" bill to a floor vote next year, it will be useful to make the anti freedom legislators have go on record and not hide. Even if it does not pass it will be useful. It needs to be a naked attempt and not part of any package legislation so the NRA can't throw us under the bus again.
    Then you wouldn't get it pass lord Dean. You'd have to wait until a gun bill gets passed that committee then amend said bill. I just wonder if/when we'll know for sure if the attempt is on for 2012. Evers ought to build support behind the scenes and not advertise that this is an "open carry bill". Marketing it that way caused a lot of unnecessary and negative attention.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  8. #8
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    Take a look at most district Senate and Rep races coming up- most of the districts dont even have anyone running against who's in now. The same clowns keep getting shoo-in's by default.
    That is unacceptable. That idiot Michael Bennett doesn't have any competition.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    That is unacceptable. That idiot Michael Bennett doesn't have any competition.
    See what I mean,now? Now go look at how many other districts are in the same situation...
    Which is another reason I say we put some folks up in these districts,and maybe -just maybe- get that put to rights.
    Last edited by j4l; 06-14-2011 at 01:12 PM.

  10. #10
    Founder's Club Member Jojo712's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    And I applaud Crash's efforts. At the least it should raise awareness of OC as an issue. But Crash will not win. Maybe he can make his opponents pro, or at least not against, open carry. But he won't win. I'm not going to run for Senate here. I don't have the money to put up a billboard on 441 for OC. So we have to work with what we have to a great extent. This is the reality of the situation.
    Dude,

    Crash is going to win. Put that in the bank. Spread the word, and out your support behind him. The clown running against him is a lifelong crook and the folks know it. The only way he can win is if D1 goes for Obama again, which is unlikely considering the 12% unemployment in the district and the second-highest foreclosure rate in the state. There is discontent with the establishment Democrat, the incoming establishment democrat, and the lack of Republican. Crash is the alternative.

    I wish he'd stop calling himself NPA and start saying Independent, but other than that Crash is one for the books. From now on, the man is Senator Crash. He has been since day one.

  11. #11
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jojo712 View Post
    Dude,

    Crash is going to win. Put that in the bank. Spread the word, and out your support behind him. The clown running against him is a lifelong crook and the folks know it. The only way he can win is if D1 goes for Obama again, which is unlikely considering the 12% unemployment in the district and the second-highest foreclosure rate in the state. There is discontent with the establishment Democrat, the incoming establishment democrat, and the lack of Republican. Crash is the alternative.

    I wish he'd stop calling himself NPA and start saying Independent, but other than that Crash is one for the books. From now on, the man is Senator Crash. He has been since day one.
    I would love to eat my words!
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  12. #12
    Regular Member crashnjax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jojo712 View Post
    Dude,

    Crash is going to win. Put that in the bank. Spread the word, and out your support behind him. The clown running against him is a lifelong crook and the folks know it. The only way he can win is if D1 goes for Obama again, which is unlikely considering the 12% unemployment in the district and the second-highest foreclosure rate in the state. There is discontent with the establishment Democrat, the incoming establishment democrat, and the lack of Republican. Crash is the alternative.

    I wish he'd stop calling himself NPA and start saying Independent, but other than that Crash is one for the books. From now on, the man is Senator Crash. He has been since day one.
    Jojo you cant blame people for having such a negative attitude. It is all good.
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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    I don't count my chickens before they hatch.

    I have lived here long enough. I'm not leaving because OC didn't happen. It's just another straw. I'm not going to wait around for the one that breaks my back. Florida is too heavy a burden for me to carry. I cannot afford all this champagne and Caviar. There is no end in sight, so I'm going somewhere else.

    Might I have stayed if it did happen? Yes. Very likely. It would be the first decent thing to happen in the politics of this state in almost 20 years. I would call it a turning point. But it didn't turn. I'm not putting my life on hold any longer. Everything I want to do with myself is illegal here. There is a lot more to it than OC. I was holding on to that delusive phantom of hope to the very last moment. I was here tracking those bastards for all of us to see.

    I wish you the best luck. I may still visit. Hopefully, I won't have to leave my gun at home when that day comes. DOO EET!!!
    Last edited by ixtow; 06-15-2011 at 02:12 AM.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
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    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  14. #14
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    I don't count my chickens before they hatch.

    I have lived here long enough. I'm not leaving because OC didn't happen. It's just another straw. I'm not going to wait around for the one that breaks my back. Florida is too heavy a burden for me to carry. I cannot afford all this champagne and Caviar. There is no end in sight, so I'm going somewhere else.

    Might I have stayed if it did happen? Yes. Very likely. It would be the first decent thing to happen in the politics of this state in almost 20 years. I would call it a turning point. But it didn't turn. I'm not putting my life on hold any longer. Everything I want to do with myself is illegal here. There is a lot more to it than OC. I was holding on to that delusive phantom of hope to the very last moment. I was here tracking those bastards for all of us to see.

    I wish you the best luck. I may still visit. Hopefully, I won't have to leave my gun at home when that day comes. DOO EET!!!
    You'll still participate in the Fl forum, no doubt? Westward ho? Of course OC isn't everything. My parents are divorced with my dad living in northern VA and I've spent a large % of my time there. Yes, I've OCed, but it is NOT more free, IMO. Where I am in Fl is more pro liberty than where he is in Va, judging by the attitudes of the people in general. Also, cops writing tickets absolutely everywhere. Most places with a significant population are like Stark or Lawtey in Fl as far as speed limit enforcement goes. Radar detectors illegal in Va so no help from those either!

    I'm going down with the ship in Fl. If it gets too bad I'll move.
    Last edited by 77zach; 06-15-2011 at 08:41 AM.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  15. #15
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    Westward ho?
    To the Desert! I'll miss it, but the Rights I've never had due to living here are more valuable than what I'll miss. I've had several friends scatter out there. Nevada, New Mexico, Arizona. They all say the only thing they regret is not doing it sooner.

    Screw Floriduh. I'm outta this dump!
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    Founder's Club Member Jojo712's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    You'll still participate in the Fl forum, no doubt? Westward ho? Of course OC isn't everything. My parents are divorced with my dad living in northern VA and I've spent a large % of my time there. Yes, I've OCed, but it is NOT more free, IMO. Where I am in Fl is more pro liberty than where he is in Va, judging by the attitudes of the people in general. Also, cops writing tickets absolutely everywhere. Most places with a significant population are like Stark or Lawtey in Fl as far as speed limit enforcement goes. Radar detectors illegal in Va so no help from those either!

    I'm going down with the ship in Fl. If it gets too bad I'll move.
    I'm going down with the Florida ship as well, Zach. I'd consider moving to Bigdanoff's district and running there if it weren't a Fascist hellhole where every house looks the same, every community is gated, and everyone drives the same SUV. I'll stick with Miami and do my best to help others campaign elsewhere.

    The desert is tough, Ixtow. I, for one, would miss the perfect convertible weather every night of the year. We certainly hope you stick around the Florida forum, as your knowledge and opinions are invaluable.

  17. #17
    Regular Member crashnjax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jojo712 View Post
    I'm going down with the Florida ship as well, Zach. I'd consider moving to Bigdanoff's district and running there if it weren't a Fascist hellhole where every house looks the same, every community is gated, and everyone drives the same SUV. I'll stick with Miami and do my best to help others campaign elsewhere.

    The desert is tough, Ixtow. I, for one, would miss the perfect convertible weather every night of the year. We certainly hope you stick around the Florida forum, as your knowledge and opinions are invaluable.
    Look people/voters/tax payers. Its early enough to find people to run from your own communities. As J4L and JOJO has said we will help via giving info already hard learned via my process to make it easier for others to run. We are they same like you. Might have different ideas, but we all bleed red. We would like 23 candidates at least, to step up to the challenge. JOJO you should run for miami, SERIOUSLY!!!!!! I will have your back for sure. So will J4L!! Remember people, UNITED we can achieve VICTORY! DIVIDED is how they want us. The Government is doing everything to distract us from the real problem. Including our State Government. So how about it, Folks? Lets quit complaining and start DOING!
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  18. #18
    Founder's Club Member Jojo712's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crashnjax View Post
    Look people/voters/tax payers. Its early enough to find people to run from your own communities. As J4L and JOJO has said we will help via giving info already hard learned via my process to make it easier for others to run. We are they same like you. Might have different ideas, but we all bleed red. We would like 23 candidates at least, to step up to the challenge. JOJO you should run for miami, SERIOUSLY!!!!!! I will have your back for sure. So will J4L!! Remember people, UNITED we can achieve VICTORY! DIVIDED is how they want us. The Government is doing everything to distract us from the real problem. Including our State Government. So how about it, Folks? Lets quit complaining and start DOING!
    My guy is amenable to OC. The rest of my libertarian views would not get me elected in a heavily republican district against a dude whose name is an institution down here. Given that OC remains a priority for me, it would be like running against my own interests.

    Surely, Florida Carry is working to harvest candidates for those seats (mostly from the OC-friendly house). Let's hope they make some public announcements in this regard soon (none on the site; none on member emails, yet), or we'll have to do the unthinkable (gasp) and Choose Ourselves, and make our own List.

    Some of you might know how much I'd look forward to having the whole group make a list, but let's hold our breath for now. FloridaCarry: your move.

  19. #19
    Regular Member crashnjax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jojo712 View Post
    My guy is amenable to OC. The rest of my libertarian views would not get me elected in a heavily republican district against a dude whose name is an institution down here. Given that OC remains a priority for me, it would be like running against my own interests.

    Surely, Florida Carry is working to harvest candidates for those seats (mostly from the OC-friendly house). Let's hope they make some public announcements in this regard soon (none on the site; none on member emails, yet), or we'll have to do the unthinkable (gasp) and Choose Ourselves, and make our own List.

    Some of you might know how much I'd look forward to having the whole group make a list, but let's hold our breath for now. FloridaCarry: your move.
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  20. #20
    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    As a 501c-4 Florida Carry, Inc. is bound by IRS rules and regulations. As such we are prohibited from endorsing candidates.

    We can, and will, state our position on the issues and position of various candidates with regard to issues we are chartered to affect. Voter education falls within the guidelines we are required to follow.

  21. #21
    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    Put more simply, we will publish candidate ratings that are based on voting records, questionnaire responses, and candidate actions in and out of the legislative session.

    We just can't formally "endorse" any candidate without forming a PAC.

  22. #22
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jojo712 View Post
    The desert is tough, Ixtow. I, for one, would miss the perfect convertible weather every night of the year. We certainly hope you stick around the Florida forum, as your knowledge and opinions are invaluable.
    Convertible weather = bike weather. One more thing I wish I could stay here for... Too many years as a slave. I don't have the tolerance anymore. If I stay here, I have no doubt that I'll do something VERY detrimental to the cause involving a large body count, mine being the last. As justified and righteous as it may be, the media and the remaining politicians won't paint that picture, for sure. I'm not going to end up as yet another unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle. Been close enough to that one already. That is an edge that a responsible person finds hard to back away from... Some jobs are in desperate need of doing, not matter how dirty they may be. I have lost so much respect for myself by holding back. I lose sleep over it. After the first one, the rest are free! I have shirked this duty to my species. I have allowed evil to have it's way. I am their most faithful servant, my coward's hope...

    I've been to the desert. It's my second choice. Maybe I'll come back some day. But for now, I don't think I can serve as more than a useful idiot on the ragged edge of doing very patriotic things... If you really think they high road will work in FL, you'll have to do it without my presence. I can't make myself fall for that idea anymore.

    Water the tree baby... DOO EET!!
    Last edited by ixtow; 06-21-2011 at 05:36 PM.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  23. #23
    Founder's Club Member Jojo712's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StogieC View Post
    Put more simply, we will publish candidate ratings that are based on voting records, questionnaire responses, and candidate actions in and out of the legislative session.

    We just can't formally "endorse" any candidate without forming a PAC.
    That's all we need.

  24. #24
    Founder's Club Member Jojo712's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    ... If I stay here, I have no doubt that I'll do something VERY detrimental to the cause involving a large body count, mine being the last... Been close enough to that one already. That is an edge that a responsible person finds hard to back away from...
    You've got to take it easy, son. Take the bike out and go for a few long rides. Get yourself far away from the Tampa/St. Pete area and head northwest. Don't stop until you hit New Orleans. Have drinks, meet chicks, get away from the computer and from guns. Spend a few days.

    The misanthropy is getting to you in a bad way, Ixtow, and although it's easy to get depressed after a series of events, there's nowhere to go but up. You're climbing, dude. Start your climb. This is good advice.

  25. #25
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jojo712 View Post
    You've got to take it easy, son. Take the bike out and go for a few long rides. Get yourself far away from the Tampa/St. Pete area and head northwest. Don't stop until you hit New Orleans. Have drinks, meet chicks, get away from the computer and from guns. Spend a few days.

    The misanthropy is getting to you in a bad way, Ixtow, and although it's easy to get depressed after a series of events, there's nowhere to go but up. You're climbing, dude. Start your climb. This is good advice.
    I believe that is my point, and intent. I need to get away from the ugly truth of what Floridians, and sheeple in general, are. I'm just not compatible with hateful, stuck-on-stupid human beings. There isn't much else... Away!
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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