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Thread: Not OC because there are children - huh?

  1. #1
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    Not OC because there are children - huh?

    In the thread about WVCDL, one poster related:

    I was stopped at the Quaker Steak and Lube at the Highlands last year by a Sheriff's Deputy who told me to cover my gun (since children were present). He was at all times professioal, but just did not know the law.
    I just don't get this because 'children are present'. Is it because they are the height of the gun belt, because they might run up and get under foot? Because they might try to play with the gun and get it away from the OC-er?

    Is it because seeing a gun (which they see on TV all the time) is traumatizing? Will the gun be more likely to go off?

    If it "goes off", is it ok if only adults are accidentally shot? An adult, a breadwinner or parent being shot is actually worse for their family, though emotionally a wounded or killed child is a devastating loss in terms of the abject horror of seeing a bleeding child, I suppose.

    Obviously, there are adult subjects, like pron, taxes, politics, but I just don't see how covering or removing a HG helps, or how a child being there is bad in the presence of a holstered HG. I really don't see it.

    Anyone have any ideas, right or wrong, as to what these 'advocates of children' are getting at?

  2. #2
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    They are using the "emotional plea" to bully you into following their color-of-law ideas of what they WANT the law to be.

    Ask for a citation to Statute.

    As far as I know, there is no "think of the children" clause in the firearms law of WV...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  3. #3
    Regular Member VW_Factor's Avatar
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    /shrug

    Never made sense to me.

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    I would think that OC would be a positive thing for children to see. Their natural curiosity provides a golden opportunity to enlighten the next generation of OCers...

  5. #5
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    Yes it is an emotional plea, but they must be thinking or envisioning something.

    It's as though they think having the holstered HG is like carrying a poisonous snake and if a kid gets too close it will bite them.

    If one had to choose for optimum safety as a HG carrier, it would be less drama to OC among lots of innocent children, who at most bump into you and each other, and greater potential 'drama' in a room full of opinionated and irrational adults who might actually try to wrest your gun away from you.

    Maybe 'they' think it's because children are smaller and softer and a gun that just 'goes off' will hurt more due to reduced body mass or something. It's goofy.

  6. #6
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    I don't get that. I have a friend who is an active shooter, reloader, and gun owner and he hides his guns from his 5 year old.

    My kids see me put the gun on, they know I carry it. They know what is happening when daddy comes home and disappears for a moment to lock them up.

    My goal is to normalize things as much as possible for them.

  7. #7
    Regular Member GuidoZ's Avatar
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    My 5 year old daughter is amazingly comfortable with it. In fact, she will frequently ask if I have my gun on me, almost making sure I didn't forget it. She will also ask sometimes for clarification, because she wants to make sure she's "careful". Though as a father I appreciate that, I've also made a point to educate her on proper treatment. (She knows not to try to grab it, touch it, etc... but if she accidentally rubs against it when hugging me or something, it's perfectly safe and ok.)

    On top of that, her friends are curious, but I've never had an issue with any of them (4-6 yr olds) feeling "threatened", or anything remotely close to that, when they see a gun on my belt. They might ask if it's real, if I always carry it, etc... but never "Take it away, it scares me!"

    I don't get it either... unless he was speaking of the adult children who can't handle it.

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  8. #8
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    In the four years I have been OC'ing on a regular basis, I have only had one negative encounter and that was in a McDonald's from another customer who was getting a take out order. He claimed he was a retired LEO but judging from his accent, he was not from Virginia. One of the things he chided me about was having an exposed firearm visible by so many children. The old, "for the children" argument really makes me sick. Anyway, he acted like a fool and I kept my cool and that's all that mattered to me.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

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  9. #9
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    LEO: "Cover your firearm, there are kids around."
    Me: "No."

  10. #10
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    Good replies. I've thought about it and it might be an extension, though erroneous, to the idea that children should be 'shielded' from all things harsh, or bad, or potentially frightening.

    The adults 'project' onto the child that gun=murder or similar 'bad' things, perhaps.

    For me as a kid 'gun=Lone Ranger' and 'Wild Bill Hickock', and playing cowboy and war and general fun.

    So, in effect adult projection that kids will be traumatized by the harshness of carrying a 'weapon' around and maybe the adult doesn't want to have to 'explain it' to the kid. In fact the preconceptions the 'scared adult' has would do more harm to the child than the actual act/vision of the HG.

    $.02
    Last edited by Badger Johnson; 06-16-2011 at 09:01 AM.
    A gun in a holster is better than one drawn and dispensing bullets. Concealed forces the latter. - ixtow

    Hi, I'm hypercritical. But I mean no harm, I just like to try to look deeply at life

  11. #11
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    Good replies. I've thought about it and it might be an extension, though erroneous, to the idea that children should be 'shielded' from all things harsh, or bad, or potentially frightening.

    The adults 'project' onto the child that gun=murder or similar 'bad' things, perhaps.

    For me as a kid 'gun=Lone Ranger' and 'Wild Bill Hickock', and playing cowboy and war and general fun.

    So, in effect adult projection that kids will be traumatized by the harshness of carrying a 'weapon' around and maybe the adult doesn't want to have to 'explain it' to the kid. In fact the preconceptions the 'scared adult' has would do more harm to the child than the actual act/vision of the HG.

    $.02

    Yep.
    Last edited by SouthernBoy; 06-16-2011 at 09:07 AM.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  12. #12
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    Perhaps, they are concerned that children are inquisitive and curious. The sight of someone actually carrying and acting in a responsible manner could lead these children to doing the same when they grow up. What's more it could also lead to the children learning about the Constitution and their natural born rights. Our, hard earned, tax dollars for years have been spent to foster a strong apathetic streak in the youth of America. Do you people not realize that exercising your rights in such a public and responsible manner could destroy years of government indoctrination!

    FOR THE LOVE OF A NON-SPECIFIC, GENDER NEUTRAL, ENVIRONMENTALLY FRIENDLY DEITY THINK OF THE CHILDREN

  13. #13
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    My only concern is that I want to control who my children tell that I am carrying. My 3 year old can't keep her mouth shut. The concern isn't enough to keep me from allowing her to see me carry, but I would like to be able to control who knows. I don't have a solution to this, so I just live with it. its more important that my child see firearms as normal things like toasters and cars.

    I don't open carry for my own reasons. (I don't want to get into that discussion)
    But I also don't make much of an effort to conceal, and I completely support those who choose to OC.

    Don
    Last edited by dcmdon; 06-16-2011 at 10:43 AM.

  14. #14
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    One of my all time best OC experiences was at a family reunion. A four year old niece came up and asked my why I wear a gun. To keep it simple, I told her "so I can protect the people I love." I later overheard her telling one of her cousins, "Uncle Richard loves me because he is ready to protect me."

  15. #15
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcmdon
    My kids see me put the gun on, they know I carry it. They know what is happening when daddy comes home and disappears for a moment to lock them up.
    It sounds like you don't carry in the house.
    So what do you do for in-home protection?

    LEO: "Cover your firearm, there are kids around."
    ME: "It's a pistol, not a penis."

    Quote Originally Posted by rpyne
    I later overheard her telling one of her cousins, "Uncle Richard loves me because he is ready to protect me."
    WIN!
    Would that other people could grasp the concept so easily.

  16. #16
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    I would say: Am I breaking a law, if not go away.
    Life is tough, its tougher when your stupid.

    http://www.itsnotthelaw.com

    Feds: U.C.C. 1-308, State: U.C.C. 1-207, Both: U.C.C. 1-103.6

  17. #17
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    It sounds like you don't carry in the house.
    So what do you do for in-home protection?

    LEO: "Cover your firearm, there are kids around."
    ME: "It's a pistol, not a penis."
    LEO: "Well, it's a penis to me, honey"...

    A gun in a holster is better than one drawn and dispensing bullets. Concealed forces the latter. - ixtow

    Hi, I'm hypercritical. But I mean no harm, I just like to try to look deeply at life

  18. #18
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    Was the LEO open carrying? If so, I'd have asked him why he didn't cover it since there were "children present".

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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    It sounds like you don't carry in the house.
    So what do you do for in-home protection? .
    I don't carry in the house. Its all about risk/reward or cost benefit however you want to describe it.

    I live in a town that has not had a non-domestic related homicide in 30 years. I have a dog, my doors and first floor windows are always locked and I have multiple loaded guns, including long guns, placed within quick access in places that my wife or I would retreat to.

    That works for me.
    Last edited by dcmdon; 06-16-2011 at 08:56 PM.

  20. #20
    Regular Member xxx.jakk.xxx's Avatar
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    I'd say an openly carried firearm is a lot safer for the children.

    When I was shopping at a grocery store I was CCing on my hip with an IWB holster. Some little out of control rugrat decided he needed to run past me. Well, he clipped his forehead on the handle of my XDm as he passed me. I'm surprised he didn't start crying and get his mom or dad involved... It was a once in a lifetime opportunity, too. I accidentally pistol whipped a child without touching my firearm or even exposing it.
    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Psalms 23:4

    "Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power." Benjamin Franklin

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  21. #21
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxx.jakk.xxx
    I accidentally pistol whipped a child without touching my firearm or even exposing it.
    LOL! Masher, cad, brute.
    Wouldn't that be one to explain to the police, or the parents?
    Wonder if he had a bruise... & if anyone could figure out what about you was responsible.

  22. #22
    Regular Member xxx.jakk.xxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    LOL! Masher, cad, brute.
    Wouldn't that be one to explain to the police, or the parents?
    Wonder if he had a bruise... & if anyone could figure out what about you was responsible.
    Yeah, something at head level and hard enough to cause a bump on the head... that wouldn't be awkward at all. Either say "I have a gun" or stumble over my words trying to think of a different excuse.

    Maybe that knock to the head made the kid think twice about being a little terror.
    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Psalms 23:4

    "Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power." Benjamin Franklin

    “It’s always open season on criminals in Mason County, and there’s no bag limit.” Sen. Tim Sheldon (D)

    Molōn labe!

  23. #23
    Regular Member GuidoZ's Avatar
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    Completely OT, but had to say...

    Quote Originally Posted by SavageOne View Post
    FOR THE LOVE OF A NON-SPECIFIC, GENDER NEUTRAL, ENVIRONMENTALLY FRIENDLY DEITY THINK OF THE CHILDREN
    That made me LOL, and I'm going to use it. Thanks!

    --
    Peace. ~G
    Carry weapon: SA XDm .40 SC + 11rd Ranger SXT 180gr

  24. #24
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brion View Post
    LEO: "Cover your firearm, there are kids around."
    Me: "No."
    You get "runner up"

    My all time favorite....while out shopping my ex and I stopped for subway inside the local WalMart.
    Little girl says to her mother "mommy he has a gun".
    Mother "does it scare you?"
    Little girl "Yes"
    Mother "DEAL WITH IT"

    Now THAT is a WINNER
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
    Beretta92FSLady
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ons-Bill/page5

    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

  25. #25
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SavageOne View Post
    Perhaps, they are concerned that children are inquisitive and curious. The sight of someone actually carrying and acting in a responsible manner could lead these children to doing the same when they grow up. What's more it could also lead to the children learning about the Constitution and their natural born rights. Our, hard earned, tax dollars for years have been spent to foster a strong apathetic streak in the youth of America. Do you people not realize that exercising your rights in such a public and responsible manner could destroy years of government indoctrination!

    FOR THE LOVE OF A NON-SPECIFIC, GENDER NEUTRAL, ENVIRONMENTALLY FRIENDLY DEITY THINK OF THE CHILDREN
    This was my personal experience, I got very interested in rights and carrying a gun was determined to OC, and one of the main reasons I do it now.

    I was a teenage birthed son of a welfare "liberal" mom. Saw a guy OC'ing when I was around age six, mentioned it to my mom and heard her immediate disdain in her voice and how it is legal in our state to openly carry your firearm, which made me immediately determined to do that someday. Took me about 30 years to get around to it but I OC practically everywhere and have had many discussions with kids and teenagers about our human rights. And the overwhelming majority of them are positive. I image the countless 100's of kids I hopefully affect positively by my OC and I must say it gives me a great sense of hope.
    Last edited by sudden valley gunner; 06-23-2011 at 09:05 AM.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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