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Thread: Do you want a gun specific Suppressor Trust? Sun, July 17th

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    Do you want a gun specific Suppressor Trust? Sun, July 17th

    Well, I am working out the details but I am projecting Sunday, July 17 10-12 and 1-3pm for the Renton/Kent area

    Working with Keith (aka Woodinvillegunlawyer) http://www.woodinvillelaw.com/ and Dennis (aka Resqcat) http://www.brislawnlofton.com/

    I am projecting 2 slot times 10-12 and 1-3pm Really only need an hour so the extra hour is for Q&A. Looking at 5-8 folks for each time period.

    We'll have a very short presentation on the "why" and benefits on getting a Trust and the benefits of getting one that's properly done by an attorney.

    Cost is projected to be $125 - $400 depending on how elaborate your Trust will need to be.

    The Presentation is FREE.

    A very basic "attorney backed trust" will be about $125. The $400 will involve more complex issues depending on your background (estate, wealth, etc).

    You pay the attorney... There is no "extra" charges for the meeting, etc.

    The presentation is FREE but this will be a working meeting* This means you order something to eat from the restaurant.

    You can chalk this up for Free information... and if you want or need a trust... you can get one! Plus meet to discuss the plans of the upcoming Suppressor shoot at RF&GC (Sunday, July 24, 2011 3-7pm) viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1132

    Please email me via my website at http://www.shootonthemove.org/contact

    I'll send you location and confirm your spot. Please indicate which time you would like (early or late).


    NEW LOCATION on Bottom of thread...
    Last edited by oldkim; 07-11-2011 at 03:56 PM.
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    I have one of Dennis Brislawn's trusts. If you're considering a suppressor, it's worth doing. He'll hit all the important issues, the common questions, etc. Not something to mess around with potential federal felonies on the line .
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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    Btt

    Just bumping to top.

    Hope you can take advantage... it's free to listen. No pressure... it's not a hard sell.

    Bottomline: it's good info for one to know. Straight from a lawyer (without paying him to boot).
    Young Kim, NRA Endowment Member
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    Convince me

    I have often thought about this as a double edged sword.

    How do I know the lawyer is doing a good job keeping me out of trouble with the Feds? What is my recourse if at a later date the trust is found invalid due to some technicality?

    I'm not willing to put my trust in someone else with out some type of guarantee.
    I also acknowledge you get what you pay for.

    ~Whitney
    The problem with America is stupidity.
    I'm not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?

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    Regular Member massivedesign's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitney View Post
    I have often thought about this as a double edged sword.

    How do I know the lawyer is doing a good job keeping me out of trouble with the Feds? What is my recourse if at a later date the trust is found invalid due to some technicality?

    I'm not willing to put my trust in someone else with out some type of guarantee.
    I also acknowledge you get what you pay for.

    ~Whitney
    When you hire a lawyer, you hire them because of their ability to help you in the field they are educated in. A Lawyer knowingly overstepping his abilities risks his license.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitney View Post
    I have often thought about this as a double edged sword.

    How do I know the lawyer is doing a good job keeping me out of trouble with the Feds? What is my recourse if at a later date the trust is found invalid due to some technicality?

    I'm not willing to put my trust in someone else with out some type of guarantee.
    I also acknowledge you get what you pay for.

    ~Whitney
    If the document ever becomes invalid, then you draft a new one.

    Having a lawyer draft the documents is going to reasonable lengths to comply with the law. It also makes for an excellent defense in court, especially in a jury trial. As a layman, you relied on paid, expert, trained advice.

    Nothing in life is guaranteed except dying.
    Last edited by Dave_pro2a; 06-25-2011 at 12:08 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitney View Post
    I have often thought about this as a double edged sword.

    How do I know the lawyer is doing a good job keeping me out of trouble with the Feds? What is my recourse if at a later date the trust is found invalid due to some technicality?

    I'm not willing to put my trust in someone else with out some type of guarantee.
    I also acknowledge you get what you pay for.

    ~Whitney
    What's your alternative, one of the "free" trusts that are often found invalid or not properly constructed, or don't handle things like a death in the family or adding and removing trustees or similar?
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Is a trust even required in WA State? Has anyone successfully received "sign off by a Chief Law Enforcement Officer" which I understand is all that is needed besides the ATF Forms and Fee's?
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Is a trust even required in WA State? Has anyone successfully received "sign off by a Chief Law Enforcement Officer" which I understand is all that is needed besides the ATF Forms and Fee's?
    There are pros and cons to trusts versus having a CLEO sign off on your NFA item.

    I'm guessing said pros and cons will be discussed at the July 17th event.

    For instance, you need a CLEO sig every single time you purchase a NFA item. But with a trust, you just easily add new items to the trust when you purchase them (no lawyer needed for that, nothing to file with the state, no additional expenses or hassles involved).

    Also the trust makes transfer to heirs less expensive, and easier. No need for the inheritor to pay a $200 transfer fee for each NFA item they inherit (assuming the trust is properly set up).

    Also, items in a trust are fairly protected from lawsuits. I.e. your kid crashes a car and kills 10 people, you get sued for everything you own... the items in the trust should be outside what the civil courts can grab.

    IANAL (I don't even own any NFA items), do some googling on the subject, or attend the free event
    Last edited by Dave_pro2a; 06-25-2011 at 03:31 PM.

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    Shared Wisdom....

    Ain't this Great! The shared wisdom on this board is amazing!

    You guys rock! All the feedback has been great and this is why I like this forum so much.

    Back on topic: regarding "trusting" the trust and attorney...

    In this case: we have someone that is one of the national leaders on gun trust right here in our own backyard. These guys are the experts in this field. It's not a regular attorney we are talking about or even just a "Trust" attorney... This guy talks to other attorneys around the United States about gun trust.

    Once you "hire" him (pay him to do your trust)... he stands behind it. So this is an opportunity for everyone to benefit. Especially for those wanting to get a suppressor...

    Come because you want to get a trust...
    Come because you just want to be informed...
    Come because you want to meet other members of this forum...
    Come because you dont' have anything else to do on Sunday morning (July 17th)...

    This is free! Order some breakfast and enjoy the freedoms of being an American!

    Freedom; men and women do not enjoy in most of the world.


    PS there are plenty of openings - as this venue can take quite a bit of folks if needed...
    Young Kim, NRA Endowment Member
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    Eff it, not worth it.
    Last edited by Dave_pro2a; 06-28-2011 at 01:41 AM.

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    Eff it, not worth it.

    Hey, what does this have to do with OC?

    That was 1/2 of a big dave impersonation, only half because well, I censored myself!
    Last edited by Dave_pro2a; 06-28-2011 at 01:43 AM.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Question based on title of this thread

    Gun Specific? Does one have to have a 'specific' gun for their suppressor? Or can one possess a suppressor and use it on several firearms? I have always been under the impression that the "paperwork" was for the suppressor and as long as you had that with the tax stamp that is all that is needed.

    Suppressors are available that are suitable for use different firearms, even of different calibers. YHM offers one that can be transferred from .308 to 5.56mm firearms by installing quick change adapters on each firearm. The .308 suppressor can be used on the smaller caliber but obviously not vice-versa. Regardless of any arguments to the effectiveness of the suppressor, Isn't this LEGAL without paperwork for each firearm?

    Just curious.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    My dad has a suppressor and can use it on multiple weapons. The paperwork is for the suppressor and not for a specific gun, but you might need to look at your state laws too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    My dad has a suppressor and can use it on multiple weapons. The paperwork is for the suppressor and not for a specific gun, but you might need to look at your state laws too.
    Washington now allows use of suppressors "as long as in accordance with Federal Law".

    That's why I am questioning the title of the thread and why one would need a "gun specific" trust???
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Washington now allows use of suppressors "as long as in accordance with Federal Law".

    That's why I am questioning the title of the thread and why one would need a "gun specific" trust???
    I am thinking that it is to protect assets or to creat a personal liability protection specific to guns (violations) in some way (but I don't really understand how, if your the owner of the trust).

    Other types of trusts are put in place to protect assets and transfer of wealth to limit tax liability and such at death or in cases of incapacitation. Generally, for those kinds, you need a lot of dough to rationalize it from an asset management standpoint of asset preservation, since the CG tax rate on assets in trusts are significantly higher than CG rates personally or jointly, open carry or concealed.
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Washington now allows use of suppressors "as long as in accordance with Federal Law".

    That's why I am questioning the title of the thread and why one would need a "gun specific" trust???
    Gun specific means that the trust deals strictly with firearms and firearm components, not that it deals with only one gun.

    Dave_pro2a: a trust removes the need for CLEO signoff
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
    Gun specific means that the trust deals strictly with firearms and firearm components, not that it deals with only one gun.

    Dave_pro2a: a trust removes the need for CLEO signoff
    On your final statement, what is the "temperature" on "CLEO's" when it comes to signing off on suppressors?

    I know that a Trust will eliminate the need but has anyone been successful in obtaining the signature and not bothered with a Trust? Just interested in a.) if it has been done and b.) was it a big hassle?
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    That's why I am questioning the title of the thread and why one would need a "gun specific" trust???
    Because someone decided to invent a specialty?

    What's the history of 'gun specific trusts? It's been 43 years since the NFA, and such a trust seems like a very recent 'development.' Begs the question, why now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    On your final statement, what is the "temperature" on "CLEO's" when it comes to signing off on suppressors?

    I know that a Trust will eliminate the need but has anyone been successful in obtaining the signature and not bothered with a Trust? Just interested in a.) if it has been done and b.) was it a big hassle?
    Depends on the CLEO. They are going to be a little more easy going now that it also helps their departments and their officers. We are currently putting together a list of CLEO's and their stances on signing off on the Form 4.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_pro2a View Post
    Because someone decided to invent a specialty?

    What's the history of 'gun specific trusts? It's been 43 years since the NFA, and such a trust seems like a very recent 'development.' Begs the question, why now.
    Actually Dave, the "gun trust" has been around and in use for many years, just not as widely in this state. The states where NFA items were legal to own AND use have been using trusts for a while. Most other states have a more open NFA list (SBR's, SBS's, MG's, etc).

    Now that WA is a own AND use State, why shouldn't people proficient in drafting a document to help obtain and protect you come out of the woodwork? I applaud them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_pro2a View Post
    Because someone decided to invent a specialty?

    What's the history of 'gun specific trusts? It's been 43 years since the NFA, and such a trust seems like a very recent 'development.' Begs the question, why now.
    http://begthequestion.info/

    Not a new development. Not begging the question. First penalty is declined, second is accepted. Fifteen post penalty, repeat the post.
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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    New location

    Change in venue as the am time slot is not available at Maggies.

    Same day time but different location... Sunday, July 17th 10-12pm and 1-3pm

    Urbia Fresh Cafe is really close to Maggies (less than 0.5 miles).

    It's easier to get there to Urbia Fresh Cafe http://www.urbiafreshcafe.com/?page=home
    415 Central Ave N, Kent, WA, 98032

    As you head down or up 167 you take the Central Street Exit (just past 212th street exit). You'll turn left (South) onto Central and it's about 3/4 miles down on your Right. It used to be a KFC.

    The owner, Lori will be opening her shop (it's typically closed on Sunday) so she'll meet us there and be open the whole time.

    Its free - Just show up for the FREE Info.

    *The shop will be open to serve coffee and food.


    Disclaimer: By having this event at Urbia Fresh Cafe, Urbia Fresh Cafe is not endorsing nor does it imply any support or non support of Suppressors and the laws surrounding the use and ownership of suppressors. They are just nice folks opening up their doors so free men and women can find good information on what's legal in this state.


    If you helped promote this Trust Meeting Please update on the sites... with the new location
    Last edited by oldkim; 07-11-2011 at 04:00 PM.
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    Regular Member Lammo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
    Gun specific means that the trust deals strictly with firearms and firearm components, not that it deals with only one gun.

    Dave_pro2a: a trust removes the need for CLEO signoff
    I believe the trust also has to do with the ability to transfer the suppressor to you descendents. I could be wrong about that (it has happened before and it will happen again).

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    Correct...

    It also helps in the daily use and by multiple parties depending on how it is written and what extent you want it... who can have "possession" of it. If its only you then you have to deal with everyone that has "access" to it like your spouse, etc. A trust can identify and cover you and all the ones covered in the trust in these cases.

    All these topics will be discussed in detail by an Attorney... Which is not me
    Last edited by oldkim; 07-12-2011 at 01:29 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lammo View Post
    I believe the trust also has to do with the ability to transfer the suppressor to you descendents. I could be wrong about that (it has happened before and it will happen again).

    IAALBIAADPASIDKSATGSOO.
    I am a lawyer but I am a district prosecuting attorney so I don't know SATG something or other?
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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