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Thread: Tuck it back, or stand up for your freedoms!

  1. #1
    Regular Member CalicoJack10's Avatar
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    Tuck it back, or stand up for your freedoms!

    OK, there is a lot of talk out there about this new bill passing, and most of it is based on the idea that we have gotten what we started fighting for in the first place.

    Time For A Reality Check!

    Chant and cheer all you want, but this is not Constitutional Carry with an "Optional Permit System". This is us having to ask permission to put a shirt or coat over our means of self defense. And if we get permission we have to pay the government for the ability to do so. So it sounds to me like there are a lot of people that have been talking about the Anti's and the Sheeple that are falling in line with what they say we can and can not do. That is not a freedom, that is a privilege. And doing things like sending e-mails and protesting at the capitol are not going to do it.

    If you want to be effective, tell those that voted against our freedoms that we will not stand for it by working to get them voted out and replaced by someone who will work toward what the people want. Tell the ones that wanted pure constitutional carry with an optional permit system that you support their efforts and will do whatever it takes to help them stay in office.

    Standing around with a bunch of dirt bags that are protesting special olympics and veterans memorials will just get them to call us crazy. Sending angry e-mails and making harassing phone calls will just give them a reason to repeal the laws with the little bit of gain we have gotten.

    Going through basic forms of training will just make them think that we are irresponsible. And that we don't deserve the rights that we are given. I don't care if you are taking a course, watching a video and then going out and practicing, or reading a book and working out the details to get it to fit you. They are going to point out every flaw and every mistake when we do finally get Constitutional Carry brought up again. And instructors that offer this "Used Car" training should be ashamed of themselves, because they are preying on others in order to make a few extra bucks.

    You may think that we have gotten somewhere with this, but what nobody seems to realize is that now that we have a real chance at concealed carry, we are just starting the fight. This is where the hard work begins. We have to maintain professionalism, and constant vigilance to make sure that we are not an example of why we should not only NOT have constitutional carry, but also why we should NOT have concealed carry at all.

    If you think for a second that they will not take this away, you are sadly mistaken. There are just as many out there that would rip this from our hands as fast as they would any other freedom we may enjoy. Now is the time to buck up and do what we have been telling them we would for the last 18+ years.

    I will step off my soap box now.
    I am Calico Jack,,,, And I approve this message!
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    Regular Member 1FASTC4's Avatar
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    As I said a while back, I don't need permission to exercise rights clearly laid out in the constitution. No permit for me.

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    Regular Member VW_Factor's Avatar
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    I like the option to be able to be "tactful" in situations where it is more prudent to be polite.

    That is all. Take that for what its worth.

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    Campaign Veteran GlockMeisterG21's Avatar
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    Constitutional carry would have been almost totally useless for me due to where I live and work. I have to get the permit to be in total compliance with the Federal GFSZ law. I'm sure some will see this as a cop-out but I find this bill acceptable for my personal needs. I will take this victory and be happy with it despite the members of this forum who will say it is "wrong" for me to do so.

    Wisconsin has been waiting for over two decades for this and I am ecstatic to finally see it happen. Things could be far worse.
    “The 1911 pistol remains the service pistol of choice in the eyes of those who understand the problem. Back when we audited the FBI academy in 1947, I was told that I ought not to use my pistol in their training program because it was not fair. Maybe the first thing one should demand of his sidearm is that it be unfair.” — Col. Jeff Cooper, GUNS & AMMO, January 2002

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    Regular Member DangerClose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CalicoJack10 View Post
    Sending angry e-mails and making harassing phone calls will just give them a reason to repeal the laws with the little bit of gain we have gotten.

    You may think that we have gotten somewhere with this, but what nobody seems to realize is that now that we have a real chance at concealed carry, we are just starting the fight. This is where the hard work begins.
    Is it better to take SB93 for now and continue to fight from there, or is it better to say no to SB93 and continue to fight from there?

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    Regular Member hardballer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlockMeisterG21 View Post
    Constitutional carry would have been almost totally useless for me due to where I live and work. I have to get the permit to be in total compliance with the Federal GFSZ law. I'm sure some will see this as a cop-out but I find this bill acceptable for my personal needs. I will take this victory and be happy with it despite the members of this forum who will say it is "wrong" for me to do so.

    Wisconsin has been waiting for over two decades for this and I am ecstatic to finally see it happen. Things could be far worse.
    This is a good example of misinformation.

    With Constitutional Carry, as it was initially envisioned, the simple act of carrying a gun, either concealed or open would have given you license to pass through the school zones by legislative decree. You would have, in fact, been licensed by the act of carrying.

    So, in point of fact, Constitutional Carry as originally envisioned, would have been exactly what we all have been fighting for.

    Sadly, now, there will be much, much more work and effort to finally get what we truly wanted achieved.
    Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid. Han Solo

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    Quote Originally Posted by GlockMeisterG21 View Post
    I have to get the permit to be in total compliance with the Federal GFSZ law.
    Do you know how few states, even "shall issue" states, have permits that fully comply with the Federal GFSZA?

    Unless this current version of the WI law requires an official determination that the licensee is a "suitable person", then the WI license won't help you there either.

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    Regular Member BROKENSPROKET's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardballer View Post
    This is a good example of misinformation.

    With Constitutional Carry, as it was initially envisioned, the simple act of carrying a gun, either concealed or open would have given you license to pass through the school zones by legislative decree. You would have, in fact, been licensed by the act of carrying.

    So, in point of fact, Constitutional Carry as originally envisioned, would have been exactly what we all have been fighting for.

    Sadly, now, there will be much, much more work and effort to finally get what we truly wanted achieved.
    My friend, Constitutional Carry in that ideological sense, would require a repeal of EVERY firearm statute in the state. That is NOT what we were fighting for.

    Let me rephrase it for you.
    Quote Originally Posted by hardballer View Post
    This is a good example of misinformation.

    With Constitutional Carry, as it was initially envisioned, the simple act of a law abiding citizen carrying a gun, either concealed or open would have given you license to pass through the school zones by legislative decree. You law abiding citizens would have, in fact, been licensed by the act of carrying.

    So, in point of fact, Constitutional Carry as originally envisioned, would have been exactly what we all have been fighting for.

    Sadly, now, there will be much, much more work and effort to finally get what we truly wanted achieved.
    With your last sentence, you claim that it will be easier to get Constitutional Carry in the future if SB93 in it's current form were to fail and not pass. I could not disagree with you more. Every state that prohibited concealed weapons that got to Constitutional Carry went through a permitting system. If the case can be made that a state can go from a prohibition to Constitutional Carry, let Illinios be the one if it can be done.

    We are on course to get Constitutional Carry. We had ten co-sponsors in the Senate, we get seven more the next time around and we got it, granted the House mirrors that and follows suit. We have a better chance than any May-Issue states.
    Last edited by BROKENSPROKET; 06-16-2011 at 04:39 AM.

  9. #9
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    i had a circumstances where an individual came to me waving the laws in my face, and exclaiming; wisconsin hasnt allowed concealed carry for 150 years, and they never will. he doesnt do that to me anymore.

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    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
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    As one of those guys who believes we have been lied to, yes I think we need to fight. I have been saying for years that our politicians believe they are our conscience and need to protect us from ourselves. In order to do that they need to erode our born rights and herd us into little protected pens where we can be watched.

    Unless your willing to start a full blown revolution our choices are limited to the electoral process. Its no secret that I abhor politicians, but we need to vote these career bags out when ever the opportunity provides itself. This country needs a truly independent viable third party to combat the 2 "normal" political parties. Right now groups like the Tea party are considered the lunatic fringe. Once these groups gain more acceptance we can advance. Until then the mantra should be "vote em out".
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

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    Regular Member anmut's Avatar
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    I personally hate to hear the cop-out "well this works for me so I'm fine with it." That's exactly what they are counting on, for you to "gain protection" at the cost of losing your rights.

    Bullspit.

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    Regular Member Lurchiron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdaddy1 View Post
    As one of those guys who believes we have been lied to, yes I think we need to fight. I have been saying for years that our politicians believe they are our conscience and need to protect us from ourselves. In order to do that they need to erode our born rights and herd us into little protected pens where we can be watched.

    Unless your willing to start a full blown revolution our choices are limited to the electoral process. Its no secret that I abhor politicians, but we need to vote these career bags out when ever the opportunity provides itself. This country needs a truly independent viable third party to combat the 2 "normal" political parties. Right now groups like the Tea party are considered the lunatic fringe. Once these groups gain more acceptance we can advance. Until then the mantra should be "vote em out".
    +1
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    Regular Member AaronS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DangerClose View Post
    Is it better to take SB93 for now and continue to fight from there, or is it better to say no to SB93 and continue to fight from there?
    Now this is a very good way of looking at it. The bottom line.

    I say continue to fight (and vote) to try to get the right we all want back.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Outdoorsman1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CalicoJack10 View Post
    OK, there is a lot of talk out there about this new bill passing, and most of it is based on the idea that we have gotten what we started fighting for in the first place.

    Time For A Reality Check!

    Chant and cheer all you want, but this is not Constitutional Carry with an "Optional Permit System". This is us having to ask permission to put a shirt or coat over our means of self defense. And if we get permission we have to pay the government for the ability to do so. So it sounds to me like there are a lot of people that have been talking about the Anti's and the Sheeple that are falling in line with what they say we can and can not do. That is not a freedom, that is a privilege. And doing things like sending e-mails and protesting at the capitol are not going to do it.

    If you want to be effective, tell those that voted against our freedoms that we will not stand for it by working to get them voted out and replaced by someone who will work toward what the people want. Tell the ones that wanted pure constitutional carry with an optional permit system that you support their efforts and will do whatever it takes to help them stay in office.

    Standing around with a bunch of dirt bags that are protesting special olympics and veterans memorials will just get them to call us crazy. Sending angry e-mails and making harassing phone calls will just give them a reason to repeal the laws with the little bit of gain we have gotten.

    Going through basic forms of training will just make them think that we are irresponsible. And that we don't deserve the rights that we are given. I don't care if you are taking a course, watching a video and then going out and practicing, or reading a book and working out the details to get it to fit you. They are going to point out every flaw and every mistake when we do finally get Constitutional Carry brought up again. And instructors that offer this "Used Car" training should be ashamed of themselves, because they are preying on others in order to make a few extra bucks.

    You may think that we have gotten somewhere with this, but what nobody seems to realize is that now that we have a real chance at concealed carry, we are just starting the fight. This is where the hard work begins. We have to maintain professionalism, and constant vigilance to make sure that we are not an example of why we should not only NOT have constitutional carry, but also why we should NOT have concealed carry at all.

    If you think for a second that they will not take this away, you are sadly mistaken. There are just as many out there that would rip this from our hands as fast as they would any other freedom we may enjoy. Now is the time to buck up and do what we have been telling them we would for the last 18+ years.

    I will step off my soap box now.
    Agree with all ... excempt for the fact the as stated in other threads, some of us literally can not afford the cost of training to "just get the permit".... For now I am required by financial difficulites to obtain the permit (ONLY for the GFSZ thing) in the least expensive way possible. I am saving my pennies to take a class someday.

    I have open carried for a while now and practice at the range as much as possible so I am comfortable (for now) in getting the permit for the GFSZ as I still plan on open carrying 95% of the time...

    Outdoorsman1
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    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    once the GFSZ law is found unconstitutional & goes way, then we can go after true Constitutional carry
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

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    Regular Member CalicoJack10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DangerClose View Post
    Is it better to take SB93 for now and continue to fight from there, or is it better to say no to SB93 and continue to fight from there?
    You souls never give up gained ground. A step forward is better than no progress at all. But the one inch that we got is not what we are fighting for.
    I am Calico Jack,,,, And I approve this message!
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    Quote Originally Posted by CalicoJack10 View Post
    You souls never give up gained ground. A step forward is better than no progress at all. But the one inch that we got is not what we are fighting for.
    That one inch gives us more traction for the future.

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CalicoJack10 View Post
    If you want to be effective, tell those that voted against our freedoms that we will not stand for it by working to get them voted out and replaced by someone who will work toward what the people want. Tell the ones that wanted pure constitutional carry with an optional permit system that you support their efforts and will do whatever it takes to help them stay in office.
    OK...... question, since no vote was ever taken until we got this bastardized legislation, who do we vote out? Lena Taylor voted for this, do we brand her as an anti or a pro?

    The easy answer is to vote against the 8 Democratic Senators that voted against it but how do we know that they didn't vote against it because they WANTED true Constitutional Carry? I am pretty sure that isn't the case but I know that Representative Pridemore indicated that he would vote against it in the Assembly just for that reason. Do we vote him out?

    I understand and respect your sentiment, I'm just not sure how we come up with that 'list'. Unfortunately, all the arguing and discussion took place in caucus and those aren't open meetings so we have no CLUE who said what.

    What is the answer? I'm not sure. Am I positive my Senator and Representative supported true Constitutional Carry? No! I can only take their word for it and see that they signed up as co-authors/co-sponsors on the original bill, before even the optional permit. In addition, I can see my Senator defended Constitutional Carry in the public hearing as well as the other committee meetings. Do we have that 'audit trail' for all of them? Nope, so most of the time it would be a feeling or a guess.

    Do we need to make people pay for this? Yes! Who? I'm not sure. Will recalling the Republican Senators help? Not sure. We might be better off grooming some true conservatives to challenge them in the next primary.

    The only person I am positive should be gone is Darling. She wanted to bend over for Flynn on the felony for unlicensed cc thing. It was only the rest of the Republican caucus basically telling her that she would receive no votes that caused her to put it as a separate bill that probably won't see the light of day.

  19. #19
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CalicoJack10 View Post
    But the one inch that we got is not what we are fighting for.
    So.... when we invaded Iwo Jima and after the 1st day we had barely made it off the beach we should of just gotten back in the landing craft and left?

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    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    Do you know how few states, even "shall issue" states, have permits that fully comply with the Federal GFSZA?

    Unless this current version of the WI law requires an official determination that the licensee is a "suitable person", then the WI license won't help you there either.
    So long as a background check is done, you are covered.... Do you have an actual example where even a single person has been prosecuted because their permit did not "fully comply"?

  21. #21
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by logables View Post
    The small handful of posters on here who are devoted to Const. Carry will find that after people start receiving their permits, the so called Const Carry movement will shrink to even a smaller minority.
    Really? You mean like how the CC movement shrunk? When Wisconsin gave up after Doyle hosed everyone the first time this passed? You really need to get out and meet your neighbors.

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdaddy1 View Post
    ... but we need to vote these career bags out when ever the opportunity provides itself.
    You had me at "hello".

    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    OK...... question, since no vote was ever taken until we got this bastardized legislation, who do we vote out?
    Every single one of them except Pam. Pam for President. Public office is a privilege. Not a career.

    Our elected officials gave us what the Governor wanted. Not what the vast majority of the voters wanted. Until they understand that they work for us it is our duty to vote them all out. It is time to take back the government of the PEOPLE, by the PEOPLE, for the PEOPLE.


    Forward







    p.s. I'd vote for you Paul. Once.
    Last edited by HandyHamlet; 06-16-2011 at 12:56 PM.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
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    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
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  22. #22
    Regular Member CalicoJack10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    So.... when we invaded Iwo Jima and after the 1st day we had barely made it off the beach we should of just gotten back in the landing craft and left?
    You have that backwards. The one inch is progress and should be cause to press on, not to give up, and keep moving forward. Not just stop where we are and be happy with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    OK...... question, since no vote was ever taken until we got this bastardized legislation, who do we vote out? Lena Taylor voted for this, do we brand her as an anti or a pro?

    The easy answer is to vote against the 8 Democratic Senators that voted against it but how do we know that they didn't vote against it because they WANTED true Constitutional Carry? I am pretty sure that isn't the case but I know that Representative Pridemore indicated that he would vote against it in the Assembly just for that reason. Do we vote him out?

    I understand and respect your sentiment, I'm just not sure how we come up with that 'list'. Unfortunately, all the arguing and discussion took place in caucus and those aren't open meetings so we have no CLUE who said what.

    What is the answer? I'm not sure. Am I positive my Senator and Representative supported true Constitutional Carry? No! I can only take their word for it and see that they signed up as co-authors/co-sponsors on the original bill, before even the optional permit. In addition, I can see my Senator defended Constitutional Carry in the public hearing as well as the other committee meetings. Do we have that 'audit trail' for all of them? Nope, so most of the time it would be a feeling or a guess.

    Do we need to make people pay for this? Yes! Who? I'm not sure. Will recalling the Republican Senators help? Not sure. We might be better off grooming some true conservatives to challenge them in the next primary.

    The only person I am positive should be gone is Darling. She wanted to bend over for Flynn on the felony for unlicensed cc thing. It was only the rest of the Republican caucus basically telling her that she would receive no votes that caused her to put it as a separate bill that probably won't see the light of day.
    Out of all of this there is one part where you get what I am trying to say. That is that we need to groom new people who are in line with what the people want and get them into office.
    Last edited by CalicoJack10; 06-16-2011 at 01:09 PM.
    I am Calico Jack,,,, And I approve this message!
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  23. #23
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    That's what my girlfriend tells me. That and leave the cash on the night stand.

    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

  24. #24
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CalicoJack10 View Post
    You have that backwards. The one inch is progress and should be cause to press on, not to give up, and keep moving forward. Not just stop where we are and be happy with it.
    I apologize if I misunderstood your meaning. I agree with this. Let's get this into law, work the system, recruit better people to run against the people we don't like and get it done.

  25. #25
    Regular Member CalicoJack10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    I apologize if I misunderstood your meaning. I agree with this. Let's get this into law, work the system, recruit better people to run against the people we don't like and get it done.
    I'll tell you what. If we can't find better people to run, I will start getting into it and I will run my damn self. I don't know how I will be able to afford it, but I am sure I can find a way. I still know a person or 2 in the unions.
    I am Calico Jack,,,, And I approve this message!
    (Paid for by the blood of patriots, and Calico Jack Defense)
    Calico Jack Defense

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