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OC WARNING from WA DOL Firearms Unit

Ajetpilot

Ajetpilot

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2007
Messages
1,416
Location
Olalla, Kitsap County, Washington, USA
alxryk said:
Whatever the comment by Mr. McKenna, I am afraid it will hold no weight in a courtroom. I want a guarantee. I don't want to feel vulnerable that at any time on any day, I could be arrested for simply showing up.
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Good grief. There are no guarantees in life. If you are that afraid of the government, then open carry is not for you. Get a CPL, hide your gun where nobody can see it, and go on about your business. The rest of us will continue to open carry without fear of the government.
 
J

Jeff Hayes

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
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Location
Long gone
In Mr. Tanaka's world someone could call 911 because they feel threatened by the color of a persons skin, dress, size or unfriendly demenor. To think we pay these people to do the peoples business makes me sick every time I read stuff like this. Who is this guy boss he needs to get an earfull.
 
A

alxryk

Guest
Intimidation Based on Race or Other Unsubstantiated Factors

Badger Johnson said:
If one is standing in a public place, looking very intimidating, but with a serene attitude, perhaps reading the paper or walking the dog or viewing nature from a park bench, there's no -intent- to intimidate. Maybe we need a SAF which support that intent.

A little old lady, handgun on hip smiling sweetly doesn't intimidate even if she wants to.

A big guy like Hulk Hogan, handgun on hip smiling sweetly intimidates even if he doesn't want to.

According to this bozo, one can be arrested and the other presumably couldn't get arrested if they wanted to. You can't make a law which sees two people doing the same thing, and finds one arrestable and the other not. That's (obviously) why there must be SAF to intimidate.

And if this guy arrested the little old lady, which he wouldn't he probably doubts his chances of getting a judge to believe that they were intending to intimidate. BUT, he doesn't care - he's using the LEO catch all of arrest 'em and let 'em pay to get out of it in court. That should be actionable as false arrest.

IANAL
$.02
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Well said, Badger Johnson. Maybe you should add to your analogy, a large black man who is simply black and large. This law has been and will be abused by anyone who does not like my looks. I responded to Tanaka's statement to me,

"What constitutes intimidation? My mere presence? My high profile identity? Surely I would have to display inappropriate behavior to be prosecuted by the "intimidation law". If there is no reasonable limit, any person who open carries in the state who is spotted by an overacting onlooker is made vulnerable to this law. Or does this only apply to certain people?"

Alex
 
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gogodawgs

gogodawgs

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Oct 25, 2009
Messages
5,669
Location
Federal Way, Washington, USA
Do you think the guy in the middle was intimidated?

251304_1377118844509_1728023493_656126_597015_n.jpg


Well do you?
 
J

Jeff Hayes

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
2,569
Location
Long gone
Ajetpilot said:
Good grief. There are no guarantees in life. If you are that afraid of the government, then open carry is not for you. Get a CPL, hide your gun where nobody can see it, and go on about your business. The rest of us will continue to open carry without fear of the government.
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+1 well said.
 
A

alxryk

Guest
Scolded for OC

NavyLCDR said:
You should have asked your question here, rather than the Department of Licensing. We could have provided you with the simple answer:

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.060



In addition you might find this interesting:
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?81671-What-constitutes-quot-On-your-Person-quot&
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Thank you for that great piece of RCW information. You perfectly answered my question from days ago to WA DOL. I just wanted to go by the book of the law. That's why I asked them. You better believe I WILL ask you guys next time. I can stand some forum flames but I don't like to be scolded by state government officials. It was like Tanaka was saying, "Hey! Who do you think you are out there open carrying a nine millimeter in my wonderful state intimidating all my friends?" No, Mr. Tanaka. You did not say that but that's how it felt.
 
A

alxryk

Guest
fire suppressor said:
I am curious why a man from the DOT is trying to give advise on open carry for any reason other than maybe trying to discourage people from carrying when renewing there license. I would write him back another email explaining to him how the laws really work and inform him he is in violation of state preemption and can be held accountable to it in a court of law. I think his letter is a form of imtimidation, I'm sure there is a RCW or WAC against public officials intimidating the public :)

RCW 9.41.290 State preemption.

The state of Washington hereby fully occupies and preempts the entire field of firearms regulation within the boundaries of the state, including the registration, licensing, possession, purchase, sale, acquisition, transfer, discharge, and transportation of firearms, or any other element relating to firearms or parts thereof, including ammunition and reloader components. Cities, towns, and counties or other municipalities may enact only those laws and ordinances relating to firearms that are specifically authorized by state law, as in RCW 9.41.300, and are consistent with this chapter. Such local ordinances shall have the same penalty as provided for by state law. Local laws and ordinances that are inconsistent with, more restrictive than, or exceed the requirements of state law shall not be enacted and are preempted and repealed, regardless of the nature of the code, charter, or home rule status of such city, town, county, or municipality.
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You are right of course. I think I am less interested in Tanaka and more interested in comfortably open carrying without the concern of random and unfounded complaints from the public that could cause me a lot of grief.
 
A

alxryk

Guest
gogodawgs said:
His "advice" does not even resemble the RCW he so references.




No Mr. Tanaka it is not "anyone" but rather all clauses of the RCW. In a manner (holstered handgun is not a manner that in and of itself is intimidating and lacks intent)

No Mr. Tanaka it is not "anyone" but rather "under circumstances" that would be intimidating. Thus reflecting an additional condition that is articulable by an action and not someone's feelings.

No Mr. Tanaka it is not "anyone" but rather a specific time and place required to fulfill these articulable facts.

No Mr. Tanaka it is not "anyone" but rather a manifestation to intimidate someone that must be articulated to the reasonable person, the officer and the court system.
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Thank you sirs. Let all of us feel well defended by such words.
 
A

alxryk

Guest
NavyLCDR said:
Unless she is your mother, grandmother or wife.

alxryk,
Can you discern our level of concern yet? :lol: (Not at you, but at Mr. Tanaka).
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I can and I deeply appreciate it. If this could happen to me it could happen to any of us. I think the "intimidation law" should be removed from the books as an antagonist law against open carry and as an outdated, racist law whose seen it's day to rest.
 
A

alxryk

Guest
amlevin said:
Gee. I wonder if his implied threats of "undue attention", arrest, fine, jail time, would constitute "Coercion" under WA's Coercion statute. Where a government official is offering a threat should one go about a perfectly legal activity. All the elements are there. Legal Activity, threat of confinement, monetary loss, damage to reputation, etc.



**********

Gogodawgs- Do you think Rob McKenna might like to see a copy of this e-mail? Perhaps the "good legal advice" this guy referred to came from one of the AG's office people.
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You've got my full cooperation. I felt demeaned by this mail from Tanaka. Now, he's giving me the silent treatment. I'm expecting a mail from some higher up soon. I already know they've got my number. Why don't they just come out with it? It'll all come out in the wash. When that happens, everyone will dump the baby out with the bathwater. I know who is always considered the bathwater.
 
A

alxryk

Guest
Ajetpilot said:
Good grief. There are no guarantees in life. If you are that afraid of the government, then open carry is not for you. Get a CPL, hide your gun where nobody can see it, and go on about your business. The rest of us will continue to open carry without fear of the government.
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No sir, I will not. I have the same rights as you. I have no desire or reason to carry a concealed pistol.
 
A

alxryk

Guest
Orphan said:
In Mr. Tanaka's world someone could call 911 because they feel threatened by the color of a persons skin, dress, size or unfriendly demenor. To think we pay these people to do the peoples business makes me sick every time I read stuff like this. Who is this guy boss he needs to get an earfull.
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What you say is true. His e-mail address is posted at the top of the first post of this thread. I am sure he will only give YOU an ear full about me instead.
 
A

alxryk

Guest
gogodawgs said:
Oh I am sure if you want you can meet them, they have coffee regularly around town.
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I screwed that post up good. I now realize you might be the guy in the middle. If that's the case, I'd like to shake the hand of that guy who was not intimidated in the middle. Just like you to always get caught in the middle.
 
gogodawgs

gogodawgs

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Oct 25, 2009
Messages
5,669
Location
Federal Way, Washington, USA
alxryk said:
I screwed that post up good. I now realize you might be the guy in the middle. If that's the case, I'd like to shake the hand of that guy who was not intimidated in the middle. Just like you to always get caught in the middle.
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I am the guy on the left. Nick Smith. The guy on the right is Deros72, Jim Beal. The guy in the middle is the Attorney General of the State of Washington and running for governor, Rob McKenna.
 
Fallschirjmäger

Fallschirjmäger

Active member
Joined
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Messages
3,823
Location
Cumming, Georgia, USA
"Officer...OFFICER!!! That man, look! He's carrying one of those French frou-frou dogs! I'm Intimidated! Stop him before he kills us ALLLLLL!!!!"

or

"Officer, Look there foes one of those Frumundian people! You know they're born criminals, Arrest him immediately!"

..... yeah, good luck with that.
 
A

alxryk

Guest
Fallschirmjäger said:
"Officer...OFFICER!!! That man, look! He's carrying one of those French frou-frou dogs! I'm Intimidated! Stop him before he kills us ALLLLLL!!!!"

or

"Officer, Look there foes one of those Frumundian people! You know they're born criminals, Arrest him immediately!"

..... yeah, good luck with that.
Click to expand...

You would be surprised how much luck they would have with that case. This is what should be stopped.
 
A

alxryk

Guest
Tanaka Keeps Warning Against OC

This is from the same one and only mail I ever received from Bruce Tanaka, Firearms Unit Program Manager for the WA DOL. I want to give Mr. Tanaka credit where credit is due. I think it would be unfair not to show that he tried to answer my question about whether carrying a handgun in a locked box in my hand required a CPL. Of course Navy referred me to the RCW which is what I don't understand could not have been done by Tanaka. Instead, Tanaka kept referring me to the infamous Black Panther RCW 9.41.270. Look out for yet ANOTHER warning about OC from Mr. Tanaka. Gosh Mr. Tanaka. I heard you loud and clear the first time.

alxryk:

"Do I need a CPL to occasionally remove my handgun and place it off my body into a locked handgun case when I enter an public place where gun carry is prohibited?

Tanaka:

"If you are openly carrying your firearm and enter a building where you have to lock it up, then a CPL is not required;"

alxryk:

"If I have to lock it up? I want to understand this. I am referring to me locking the handgun up in a carrying case that I would be carrying along with me."

Tanaka:

"again be aware of RCW 9.41.270. But if you are carrying it concealed on your person, you will need a CPL and still lock it up when entering a place where gun carry is prohibited."

alxryk:

"Now we return to what constitutes carrying a gun concealed on my person. In a case locked is not on my body."

end of mail
 
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