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Thread: Here is an amendment I am proposing for SB93 in the House

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Here is an amendment I am proposing for SB93 in the House

    This will make car carry happen the day after publishing instead of 4 months later:

    Section 101 (1) is replaced by "The treatment of sections 66.0409 (6), 165.25 (12), 167.31 (3) (a), 167.31 (1) (b), 167.31 (2) (a), 167.31 (2) (b), 167.31 (2) (c) 167.31 (3) (a) 2., 167.31 (4) (at), 175.49 (4), 175.60 (2m) and (5), and 947.01 (2) of the statutes and SECTION 100 (1) and (2) of this act take effect on the day after publication."
    If you feel led, please ask your Representative to introduce/sponsor/co-author it.

    As the header to my letter, I said:
    Do you think there is any possibility of getting a timing amendment put into SB93? Basically, it would be AWESOME if we didn't have to way 4 months for car carry. I understand DOJ needs time to get the permit process up but car carry would be legal without a permit.

    So.... Adding
    Last edited by paul@paul-fisher.com; 06-16-2011 at 08:04 PM.

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    Regular Member oak1971's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    This will make car carry happen the day after publishing instead of 4 months later:



    If you feel led, please ask your Representative to introduce/sponsor/co-author it.

    As the header to my letter, I said:
    Paul, you need to work in Madison. You know more about the process than they do. Great idea.
    In God I trust. Everyone else needs to keep your hands where I can see them.

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oak1971 View Post
    Paul, you need to work in Madison. You know more about the process than they do. Great idea.
    I'd hate for a change in the House to be the reason why it doesn't pass.

    The part I haven't quite figured out is if the whole bill goes back to the Senate or if there is a joint committee that resolves the discrepancy.

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    Excellent Idea, Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    This will make car carry happen the day after publishing instead of 4 months later:



    If you feel led, please ask your Representative to introduce/sponsor/co-author it.

    As the header to my letter, I said:
    As an observer from afar, this looks very doable. It doesn't really change anything about the bill, I just makes the timing better.

    It looks like the bill has momentum, so this would be good. It would also be opposed by the anti-freedom types and would expose them as anti-common sense.

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    Regular Member littlewolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    This will make car carry happen the day after publishing instead of 4 months later:



    If you feel led, please ask your Representative to introduce/sponsor/co-author it.

    As the header to my letter, I said:
    I emailed Rep. Kevin Petersen asking the same and added WI residents with out of State permits to be valid for 1 year or the expiration of the permit until they get a WI permit.
    Owner Little Wolf Firearms , US ARMY RETIRED 101st Airborne & 84th DIV TRNG Small arms instructor.
    Remember , Gun Control is " USING BOTH HANDS!"

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    Regular Member DangerClose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    I'd hate for a change in the House to be the reason why it doesn't pass.
    Me too. Which is why I told my reps to pass it without touching it. Who knows what bs could happen if more time is spent on it... people switching votes, recalls, some big school shooting and then everyone gets afraid of guns again.... It'd be unlikely, but that four-month wait could turn into four years. I'll take the four months.

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    Regular Member BROKENSPROKET's Avatar
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    Keep It Simple

    SECTION 101.0 Effective dates. This act takes effect on the first day of the 4th month beginning after publication, except as follows:
    (1) The treatment of sections 66.0409 (6), 165.25 (12), 167.31 (2) (b), (2) (c) and (4) (at), 175.49 (4), 175.60 (2m) and (5), and 947.01 (2) of the statutes and SECTION 100 (1) and (2) of this act take effect on the day after publication.
    I don't know how to underline, so I just put it in bold.

    ETA: safcrkr toldk me how.
    Last edited by BROKENSPROKET; 06-16-2011 at 10:04 PM.

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    Regular Member Outdoorsman1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    This will make car carry happen the day after publishing instead of 4 months later:



    If you feel led, please ask your Representative to introduce/sponsor/co-author it.

    As the header to my letter, I said:
    NOW THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKIN ABOUT.....

    Paul.. You ARE the man...

    I have been talking (writing) and asking about this since day 1 ...

    We HAD to settle for permits, we HAD to settle for trainning...we should NOT have to settle for waiting 4 MONTHS just to (open) carry loaded in a vehilce since open carry is already legal and carrying loaded and holsterd in a vehicle has NOTHING to do with concealed carry (which IS what the permit is for)... The only down side would be the carry in a GFSZ thing but if you do not travel in a school zone then again.... WHY should we have to wait.....

    THANK YOU PAUL....

    Outdoorsman1
    Last edited by Outdoorsman1; 06-16-2011 at 09:43 PM.
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    No changes now, please. The biggest hurdle in getting this into law was getting it through and DONE with in the Senate. There's zero possibility of Dems regaining the Assembly before the next election. There's a very real possibility of them retaking the Senate before the fall session. We are now totally certain of this becoming law as long as there's no chance it needs any further approval from the Senate. Let sleeping dogs lie... don't rock the boat and risk overturning it for a few months of car-carry. The reward is not worth the risk, IMO.

    The Senate has been totally eliminated from the equation. Any changes in the Assembly is a step backwards, because it brings the Senate back into the equation. Bad bad move. They were supposed to be done for the summer after the budget. The Senate may very well go home tomorrow. The Assembly has called a "special session" just to vote on this bill befotre they recess for the summer. Please let them end it Tuesday... how many "back & forths" can it stand before they postpone it to fall? Then we wait even longer for car-carry, permits, the whole thing gets pushed back... and maybe even killed.
    Last edited by safcrkr; 06-16-2011 at 09:50 PM.

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    Regular Member mliederbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by littlewolf View Post
    I emailed Rep. Kevin Petersen asking the same and added WI residents with out of State permits to be valid for 1 year or the expiration of the permit until they get a WI permit.
    I agree that we don't need any changes at this point. However; I would love to use my existing permit until I could get my WI permit.

    Any way of getting this done without delaying the process?

    Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by BROKENSPROKET View Post
    I don't know how to underline, so I just put it in bold.
    Use a "U" instead of a "B". For italics, use an "I".
    Last edited by safcrkr; 06-16-2011 at 09:53 PM.

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    OK, I had to figure it out. If the Assembly changes the bill, it goes to the conference committee.

    The last type of legislative committee is the conference committee, which has very specific duties. A conference committee is appointed when the 2 houses cannot agree on a final version of a bill. It usually consists of 6 members, 3 appointed by the presiding officer of each house, although the entire senate must approve the president’s selection of conferees. There is no requirement regarding the partisan makeup of a conference committee. If a bill has had bipartisan support, the committees tend to consist of 2 majority party members and one minority party member from each house. When the vote on a bill has followed party lines, such as in budget bills, all of the members may be from the majority party. A conference committee produces a report that cannot be amended. This report, which may incorporate simple amendments or a substitute amendment, must be adopted or voted down as a whole.
    Page 109 http://legis.wisconsin.gov/lrb/pubs/...e/legispro.pdf

    Page 165

    Resolving Differences: The Conference Committee
    When the 2 houses pass different versions of a bill, they may be able to either adopt amendments that resolve their differences or one house may recede from an amendment that is objectionable to the other house. If they cannot reach agreement, one house may request a committee of conference. Under Joint Rule 3, “In all cases of disagreement between the senate and assembly on amendments, adopted by either house to a bill or joint resolution passed by the other house, a committee of conference consisting of 3 members from each house may be requested by either house, and the other house shall appoint a similar committee.”
    Conference committee members are appointed by the presiding officer of each house, and senate conferees must be approved by that body. The rules do not require bipartisan representation. The partisan makeup of the committee usually depends on the type of bill being considered. If the measure had bipartisan support, it is customary to appoint a member of the minority party to the committee. Of 7 conference committees appointed in the 1991 Legislature, 4 had bipartisan representation from each house, and 3 had members exclusively from the majority party. In the latter 3 cases, 2 dealt with budget bills, so the conference committee included the presiding officer and majority leader from each house and the cochairpersons of the Joint Committee on Finance, all of whom are majority members by the nature of their offices. (The third was a gambling bill that failed to pass.)
    A conference committee report, which requires agreement of the majority of each house’s representatives, will consist of the committee’s recommendations to the legislature and may include one or more simple amendments or a substitute amendment to the bill. When either house takes up the conference report, the question is simply adoption or rejection of the report. A conference report cannot be amended. Approval of the report by roll call vote in each house constitutes final passage of the bill. Action on the report always starts in the second house so that the concluding vote will take place in the house in which the bill originated.
    Under certain circumstances, a second conference committee may be required. When a conference committee cannot agree, a new one can be appointed, or if the legislature rejects the report of the first committee but is still interested in passage of the bill, it may choose to select a new committee.
    Last edited by paul@paul-fisher.com; 06-16-2011 at 10:14 PM.

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    I still say don't rock the boat for 3 months of car carry, conference committee or not. I don't think the Senate antis even realized permitless car carry was in the bill. They never even mentioned it... not in the finance committee, not on the Senate floor. Do you really think they were OK with this, and is why they made no attempt to amend it? IT WENT RIGHT OVER THEIR HEADS!!!! THEY TOTALLY MISSED IT!!! LEAVE IT THERE!! Don't bring any undue attention to it, hopefully the Assembly blows it off too. You'll risk getting it totally deleted by making a stink about it having to wait 3 months. If you want to make a change, do something worthwhile... get rid of 48 hr waits on handguns. Just my $.02... YMMV.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mliederbach View Post
    I agree that we don't need any changes at this point. However; I would love to use my existing permit until I could get my WI permit.

    Any way of getting this done without delaying the process?

    Thanks
    Using our out of state permits with a sunset date would be awesome! If they are going to change anything I would love if they would let permit holders bypass the waiting period for pistols. And as long as were at it put my damn photo on the permit so I don't need two forms of ID.

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason in WI View Post
    Using our out of state permits with a sunset date would be awesome! If they are going to change anything I would love if they would let permit holders bypass the waiting period for pistols. And as long as were at it put my damn photo on the permit so I don't need two forms of ID.
    That would require change of law, not just effective date. You guys can do what you want, all I'm going to ask for is a date.

  16. #16
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    go to it Paul, you got my support. remarkable, you may be helping to write laws- correct laws.

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    Regular Member Outdoorsman1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    That would require change of law, not just effective date. You guys can do what you want, all I'm going to ask for is a date.
    Agreed.... We are not asking to change the bill, just to change the date on loaded vehicle carry which has nothing to do with the permit, or anything else in the bill...

    E-mail sent....

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    Regular Member Outdoorsman1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by safcrkr View Post
    I still say don't rock the boat for 3 months of car carry, conference committee or not. I don't think the Senate antis even realized permitless car carry was in the bill. They never even mentioned it... not in the finance committee, not on the Senate floor. Do you really think they were OK with this, and is why they made no attempt to amend it? IT WENT RIGHT OVER THEIR HEADS!!!! THEY TOTALLY MISSED IT!!! LEAVE IT THERE!! Don't bring any undue attention to it, hopefully the Assembly blows it off too. You'll risk getting it totally deleted by making a stink about it having to wait 3 months. If you want to make a change, do something worthwhile... get rid of 48 hr waits on handguns. Just my $.02... YMMV.
    I would much rather wait 48 hours to purchase a new handgun than 4 months to be able to legally do something that absolutley no association with the permit for concealed carry...

    Outdoorsman1
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    Regular Member BROKENSPROKET's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by safcrkr View Post
    I still say don't rock the boat for 3 months of car carry, conference committee or not. I don't think the Senate antis even realized permitless car carry was in the bill. They never even mentioned it... not in the finance committee, not on the Senate floor. Do you really think they were OK with this, and is why they made no attempt to amend it? IT WENT RIGHT OVER THEIR HEADS!!!! THEY TOTALLY MISSED IT!!! LEAVE IT THERE!! Don't bring any undue attention to it, hopefully the Assembly blows it off too. You'll risk getting it totally deleted by making a stink about it having to wait 3 months. If you want to make a change, do something worthwhile... get rid of 48 hr waits on handguns. Just my $.02... YMMV.
    I have been thinking that exact same thing.

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    Regular Member BROKENSPROKET's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    OK, I had to figure it out. If the Assembly changes the bill, it goes to the conference committee.



    Page 109 http://legis.wisconsin.gov/lrb/pubs/...e/legispro.pdf

    Page 165
    From what I understand, it only goes to a Joint Committtee of Conference if the Senate and the House cannot agree on a bill. IF the Assembly made an ammendment to a bill, it would be sent back to the Senate for Concurrence. IF they cannot get a majority vote on Concurrence, then it is forced into a Joint Committtee of Conference.
    Last edited by BROKENSPROKET; 06-16-2011 at 11:08 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Outdoorsman1 View Post
    I would much rather wait 48 hours to purchase a new handgun than 4 months to be able to legally do something that absolutley no association with the permit for concealed carry...

    Outdoorsman1
    If you live in an urban area, near gunshops, and two trips to buy a pistol is no big deal and just means waiting 2 days, I suppose you would. For a lot of us, the 48 hr wait is the biggest detriment to WI gun laws (besides no cc). The gun shops up here seem to know the score. They can sell handguns for MSRP and get it... because to get it cheaper means two trips of 100+ miles ONE way to get a better deal. That's driving maybe 400 miles. Buying from Cabelas is out of the question. It's 235 miles away. X 4 (there and back... twice) = driving 940 miles to take advantage of a "sale"? One round-trip... maybe. But two? NFW

    Instead, you'd rather get car carry for an extra 3 months? Not me. And I'm not dumb enough to bring attention to something we want, and will have, that the Dems totally missed. There's no other explanation for their silence on loaded guns in cars without permits, other than they missed it. Go ahead, wake 'em up to the fact. Send Barca and Grigsby an e-mail while you're at it.

    If any of them read this thread, they now know about it anyway. Silence used to be golden.
    Last edited by safcrkr; 06-16-2011 at 11:14 PM.

  22. #22
    Regular Member Outdoorsman1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by safcrkr View Post
    If you live in an urban area, near gunshops, and two trips to buy a pistol is no big deal and just means waiting 2 days, I suppose you would. For a lot of us, the 48 hr wait is the biggest detriment to WI gun laws (besides no cc). The gun shops up here seem to know the score. They can sell handguns for MSRP and get it... because to get it cheaper means two trips of 100+ miles ONE way to get a better deal. That's driving maybe 400 miles. Buying from Cabelas is out of the question. It's 235 miles away. X 4 (there and back... twice) = driving 940 miles to take advantage of a "sale"?

    Instead, you'd rather get car carry for an extra 3 months? Not me. And I'm not dumb enough to bring attention to something we want, and will have, that the Dems totally missed. There's no other explanation for their silence on loaded guns in cars without permits, other than they missed it. Go ahead, wake 'em up to the fact. Send Barca and Grigsby an e-mail while you're at it.
    Nobody said you were dumb and I do not appreciate the implication that anyone (myself) who requests a simple consideration of changing an effective date is dumb. It is not like we (I) am asking for a major change in the bill similar to what eliminating the waiting period to purchase a handgun would be. We all have our reasons for wanting things and I am truely sorry you have to drive 400 miles to purchase a handgun. I have a varitey of gun shops within about 10 miles from my house, the closest being about 3 miles. I would consider myself fortunate to be able to afford the purchase of a new handgun as most of my fiirearms were purchased used do to financial restaints. On the other hand I open carry daily wherever and whenever it is legal. This means I have to go throught the unload case uncase load dance mulitple time a day. I suppose I could just decide not to carry in some places to avoid the dance, but I will not compromise my principals for convenyance. I undestand your fear of taking a chance of screwing up the bill by asking for a date change, but again I am not asking for a major change in any part of the bill itself. And I for one am sick of just sitting by the wayside while our representitives give it to us in the butt. This is where I will speak my mind as to my feelings on tis issue. Believe me, if I wanted a major change in the bill itself ( and I do want a few), I would not jepordize the process by asking for them at such a late stage of the process....

    Please excuse any spelling errors as it is late and I am getting kinda tired..

    Outdoorsman1

    Edited to add... Not to mention that the seconds it takes to do the "dance" literally puts me at a major disadvantage if I happend to be attacked at that particular moment which could also literally be a matter of life and death....mine... multilply that time many times a day.... I suppose you could also use the argument that by having to travel so far to purchase a handgun puts you at more of a risk of a deadly car crash so I guess we are kind even on that one...

    Man.. I really am tired....
    Last edited by Outdoorsman1; 06-16-2011 at 11:29 PM. Reason: add info
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    Regular Member davegran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    This will make car carry happen the day after publishing instead of 4 months later:

    If you feel led, please ask your Representative to introduce/sponsor/co-author it.

    ....
    My feeling is that that this is a bad idea, Paul. A new amendment will start the process all over again in the Senate. This just to try for instant gratification of some rights we have been patiently and successfully pursuing up to this point. Sometimes just because we have the ability to do something, it doesn't mean that we should do it. Please reconsider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by safcrkr View Post
    If you live in an urban area, near gunshops, and two trips to buy a pistol is no big deal and just means waiting 2 days, I suppose you would. For a lot of us, the 48 hr wait is the biggest detriment to WI gun laws (besides no cc). The gun shops up here seem to know the score. They can sell handguns for MSRP and get it... because to get it cheaper means two trips of 100+ miles ONE way to get a better deal. That's driving maybe 400 miles. Buying from Cabelas is out of the question. It's 235 miles away. X 4 (there and back... twice) = driving 940 miles to take advantage of a "sale"?
    All I know is I like to buy on the spur of the moment and having to go back to the FFL holder is a pain . Come to think of it maybe it's a good thing I can't just walk out with the latest toy! At least with long guns I have to think where I will store them.

    Instead, you'd rather get car carry for an extra 3 months? Not me. And I'm not dumb enough to bring attention to something we want, and will have, that the Dems totally missed. There's no other explanation for their silence on loaded guns in cars without permits, other than they missed it. Go ahead, wake 'em up to the fact. Send Barca and Grigsby an e-mail while you're at it.

    I agree. I think it was a major oversight, they were too worried we would shoot the zoo animals to see clearly. As much as I want this stuff to take affect I'm trying to look at the bigger picture. If it just goes to conference committee I guess it's low risk (repub's in charge right?), otherwise it might come back to bit us. Open carry in a car is a big piece of the constitutional carry puzzle, if the fed GFSZ gets axed we will have mostly constitutional open carry by default. Then the permit only allows us to cover the pistol and go to other states. Our case for constitutional carry would be great, if car carry becomes a privilege under a permit we screw ourselves.

    Maybe I'm just being paranoid but the benefit doesn't seem to out weigh the risk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Outdoorsman1 View Post
    Nobody said you were dumb and I do not appreciate the implication that anyone (myself) who requests a simple consideration of changing an effective date is dumb. It is not like we (I) am asking for a major change in the bill similar to what eliminating the waiting period to purchase a handgun would be. We all have our reasons for wanting things and I am truely sorry you have to drive 400 miles to purchase a handgun. I have a varitey of gun shops within about 10 miles from my house, the closest being about 3 miles. I would consider myself fortunate to be able to afford the purchase of a new handgun as most of my fiirearms were purchased used do to financial restaints. On the other hand I open carry daily wherever and whenever it is legal. This means I have to go throught the unload case uncase load dance mulitple time a day. I suppose I could just decide not to carry in some places to avoid the dance, but I will not compromise my principals for convenyance. I undestand your fear of taking a chance of screwing up the bill by asking for a date change, but again I am not asking for a major change in any part of the bill itself. And I for one am sick of just sitting by the wayside while our representitives give it to us in the butt. This is where I will speak my mind as to my feelings on tis issue. Believe me, if I wanted a major change in the bill itself ( and I do want a few), I would not jepordize the process by asking for them at such a late stage of the process....

    Please excuse any spelling errors as it is late and I am getting kinda tired..

    Outdoorsman1

    Edited to add... Not to mention that the seconds it takes to do the "dance" literally puts me at a major disadvantage if I happend to be attacked at that particular moment which could also literally be a matter of life and death....mine... multilply that time many times a day.... I suppose you could also use the argument that by having to travel so far to purchase a handgun puts you at more of a risk of a deadly car crash so I guess we are kind even on that one...

    Man.. I really am tired....
    I didn't mean to imply that you or anyone was dumb, but I still stand my ground and think this
    IS a DUMB idea! Any change, even just the start date, requires an amendment. An amendment will be discussed, and voted on. Discussing this issue just brings attention to it. Making any changes at all, even for the better, means delaying final passage, and signage, and "publication", and implementation. And does run a risk of screwing it totally if it gets delayed past recalls and the Senate turns. Sorry you gotta "do the dance" for another 3 months, to guarentee you won't have to do it for the next 3 years. As much as I'd like to see the 48 hr wait disappear next week, I don't want to risk losing it all over that, or any other change. So I still say leave it be for now, and get this done ASAP... we can change that later. Not to be insulting, but I see this date thing as a trivial change at best anyway.
    Last edited by safcrkr; 06-16-2011 at 11:48 PM.

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