Hartford MI, State Police to the Rescue

Oh no, not in this thread too.:lol:

TheQ said:

But -- but -- I thought you loved ME!?!

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he told you that too??


that dirty,dirty man...

eastmeyers said:

I was thinking this too, and what is funny, is a lot, if not most LEO's in MI don't know this. They believe its the norm, and are clueless that MOST states do not have illegal registration. Can you imagine how quick the cuffs and pistols would have come out of the holsters if they ran you SN and nothing came back. YIKES!

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Believe it or not, it happens enough that the absence of its registration showing up in LEIN may or may not cause further complications. And yes, most MSP troopers and other Michigan LEOS every state has similar requirements as, apparently, do most television shows. I watched one recently where the criminals had unregistered long guns. :lol:

eastmeyers said:

I was thinking this too, and what is funny, is a lot, if not most LEO's in MI don't know this. They believe its the norm, and are clueless that MOST states do not have illegal registration. Can you imagine how quick the cuffs and pistols would have come out of the holsters if they ran you SN and nothing came back. YIKES!

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what about federal 4473 form I WOULD imagine that info is put in to some kind of data LEO might be able to access?????? I would think Iowa residents would have to fill out that form if the gun is bought at a gun store ect???

Onnie said:

what about federal 4473 form I WOULD imagine that info is put in to some kind of data LEO might be able to access?????? I would think Iowa residents would have to fill out that form if the gun is bought at a gun store ect???

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Someone here that works at a Gun Shop, or someone with an FFL can chime in, but if I am not mistaken, the only thing a 4473 does is let the store know you are good to go to purchase. It does not tell the FBI/BATFE that you have or have not purchased anything. Or what, or the SN's. Correct? I could be wrong. I think the store may keep a copy for personal records, maybe, I dunno.

I am the invisible man!!!

TheQ said:

Who wants to play the cmike (MGO) in this thread?

If no one else wants to I'll do my best to play his FUDishness.

...darn open carry zealots -- you're just like the Borg. This fine officer was just trying to do his job and you had to give him a hard time. Why no just cooperate? I'll tell you why, YOU ARE ALL ATTENTION WHORES!!

It's you OC Zealots that are destroying gun rights for the rest of us in Michigan -- with this and your "code pink" tactics at CADL....

(Any serious replies to this post will force me to continue playing the role of cmike...sighs)

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Guess what everyone??? TheQ (cmike) can't see me!!! hahahahahahahaha!!!
:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

Damn...you could have owned that PD if they illegally did that...good thing the state patrol actually knew the law...good job man.

eastmeyers said:

Someone here that works at a Gun Shop, or someone with an FFL can chime in, but if I am not mistaken, the only thing a 4473 does is let the store know you are good to go to purchase. It does not tell the FBI/BATFE that you have or have not purchased anything. Or what, or the SN's. Correct? I could be wrong. I think the store may keep a copy for personal records, maybe, I dunno.

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FORM 4473
From Section D, which looks like its on page 2

line 24 is Manufacturer, 25 is Model, 26 is serial number , 27 is Type and 28 is Caliber

so does the feds put this info in a database????? if so can any LEO get it off of a serial number check?????

don't know but I bet the answer is somewhere some place and some how yes!

Section B above this is the buyers personal info

Onnie said:

FORM 4473
From Section D, which looks like its on page 2

line 24 is Manufacturer, 25 is Model, 26 is serial number , 27 is Type and 28 is Caliber

so does the feds put this info in a database????? if so can any LEO get it off of a serial number check?????

don't know but I bet the answer is somewhere some place and some how yes!

Section B above this is the buyers personal info

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Is their a part that says, was this transaction completed? Check yes or no? Or is it the kind of thing, if you change your mind or your Credit Card is declined, they just throw away. I thought they couldn't because they get an approval # from the FBI.

If this is the case, their is no way of knowing whether or not the firearm was ever purchased by you, and if you did by it, did you sell it? That does not require paper work... At least not for long guns, and not for pistols in most states.

eastmeyers said:

Is their a part that says, was this transaction completed? Check yes or no? Or is it the kind of thing, if you change your mind or your Credit Card is declined, they just throw away. I thought they couldn't because they get an approval # from the FBI.

If this is the case, their is no way of knowing whether or not the firearm was ever purchased by you, and if you did by it, did you sell it? That does not require paper work... At least not for long guns, and not for pistols in most states.

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I have no knowledge on what happens if the transaction does not go through but on completed transactions even where the state does not require a purchase permit like Michigan does, i wonder what data base that info goes into. I don't want it to go anywhere but ...................

eastmeyers said:

Is their a part that says, was this transaction completed? Check yes or no? Or is it the kind of thing, if you change your mind or your Credit Card is declined, they just throw away. I thought they couldn't because they get an approval # from the FBI.

If this is the case, their is no way of knowing whether or not the firearm was ever purchased by you, and if you did by it, did you sell it? That does not require paper work... At least not for long guns, and not for pistols in most states.

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everyone is forgetting private sales. in a person to person sale (in a state with no registration) firearms just disappear into the mist. no official record of who has it. politicians love referring to this as the "gun show loophole". btw, great job tucker. textbook.

RE FFL. They write down your info AND the gun's info on the same government form. What's the chance the only thing they do with the form is wipe their arses with it?

Thank You

Thx for taking ur time to write all this out. Wish we had class's to practice encounters with LEOs. I try and remember all the correct things to say like u did but when ur in that situation it can be a little stressful. Hence the class or practice runs through this would help us all!!!

T Mack said:

Thx for taking ur time to write all this out. Wish we had class's to practice encounters with LEOs. I try and remember all the correct things to say like u did but when ur in that situation it can be a little stressful. Hence the class or practice runs through this would help us all!!!

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I will put on a clinic, I charge $100 dollars and a dinner at outback per 1 day session. Each 1 day session will run approximately 4 hours!

I give group discounts!

Well done my friend. Should have asked them what law they are required to check anyone out too.

eastmeyers said:

Someone here that works at a Gun Shop, or someone with an FFL can chime in, but if I am not mistaken, the only thing a 4473 does is let the store know you are good to go to purchase. It does not tell the FBI/BATFE that you have or have not purchased anything. Or what, or the SN's. Correct? I could be wrong. I think the store may keep a copy for personal records, maybe, I dunno.

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I'm sure the government has never done anything illegal like that...

I am a tad confused was it the County or City that was attempting to give you grief....

eastmeyers said:

I will put on a clinic, I charge $100 dollars and a dinner at outback per 1 day session. Each 1 day session will run approximately 4 hours!

I give group discounts!

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LOL!!!!!! Haaaaa!

It was city of hartford police... small town police dept. I have OCed while talking with them many times with no issues... Like I said they seem to have gotten ahead of themselves.

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Venator said:

I think I love you.

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HEY!! That's supposed to be my line!!!

don't know where to start with this first other than say well handled.

first i think they made a mistake telling you who called in on you. secondly you know they KNOW michigan is a 'no show ID' state. they lied to you. i would have called them on that and the fact that they couldn't cite it was a bluff called and they still tried. i would say "what you told me is legally innaccurate. it leaves only 2 options. you aren't legally knowledgeable or lying. either way i shouldn't talk to you." when the hard guy routine failed they fell back on the nice cop ploy and you stuck to your legal guns. they also dodged or plain just didn't answer your questions - 'am i being detained?' 'what law requires me to....?'. answers to these questions would of course shoot down their flimsy legal ploy. i would suggest making sure my answers were answered. "my question is as yet unanswered. i need to speak to officers knowledgeable in law. if you aren't i shouldn't speak with you at all to maintain my constitutional rights. if you're not going to answer my questions then that means you aren't listening to me and it is pointless to talk to officers that aren't listening. i'll ask my question again and it requires an answer for me to continue this conversation so i know that i am dealing with a knowledgeable professional that is able to handle my legal interest". this will stop any question dodging - especially if you hit them with RAS for a Terry stop. you KNOW they'll dodge that one.
you were standing by your car. if they were smart they would just wait for you to get in your car and stop you then. i'm amazed you didn't get stopped when you left with all that LEO traffic there.
another recommendation i suggest is to establish up front that they know you are NOT engaged in a criminal activity at all. once that is established a Terry stop question would be hard for them to answer and also opens the door to telling them that knowing this pretty much ends their involvement as the police and their presence isn't necessary.
i do like that you pointed out that a seizure of your property wouldn't be done with consent. they know they would be on flimsy legal ground then.
sorry my post of support turned into a LEO contact seminar but i got on a roll. handled well. will practice my responses some more and still say we need some flash cards or something so we are all on the same page on this. an officer's worse nightmare is someone legally sharp enough to shoot down any of their legal bluffs and challenge their professional knowledge.