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Thread: No time to react

  1. #1
    Regular Member Whitney's Avatar
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    No time to react

    A person in the linked video asked me what their recourse might be with regard to the drive by air soft shooting. The local sheriff took a report and a case number is assigned. None of the individuals are really identifiable. I am unable to find anything in the RCW that covers this type of action. I am glad no one shot back but worry this may happen again, notwithstanding the fact someone had the audacity to post a video of them.

    I know there is a wealth of knowledge here, I appreciate all opinions.

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    http://youtu.be/7bRQNwrRzbM
    The problem with America is stupidity.
    I'm not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?

  2. #2
    Regular Member Walt_Kowalski's Avatar
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    idiots.
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good"
    -- George Washington

  3. #3
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    Just ASKING for .45 slugs back in return. How am I supposed to know it's some sissy airsoft gun?

  4. #4
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    I think this is what you are looking for to justify protecting yourself when you feel there is an actual threat but later find out it was an airsoft gun.

    RCW 9A.16.050
    Homicide — By other person — When justifiable.

    Homicide is also justifiable when committed either:

    (1) In the lawful defense of the slayer, or his or her husband, wife, parent, child, brother, or sister, or of any other person in his presence or company, when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design on the part of the person slain to commit a felony or to do some great personal injury to the slayer or to any such person, and there is imminent danger of such design being accomplished; or

    (2) In the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer, in his presence, or upon or in a dwelling, or other place of abode, in which he is.


    11 WAPRAC WPIC 16.07
    WPIC 16.07 Justifiable Homicide—Actual Danger Not Necessary
    11 Wash. Prac., Pattern Jury Instr. Crim. WPIC 16.07 (3d Ed)
    http://government.westlaw.com/linked...?SP=WCCJI-1000

    Washington Practice Series TM
    Current through the 2010 Pocket Parts

    Washington Pattern Jury Instructions--Criminal
    2008 Edition Prepared by the Washington Supreme Court Committee On Jury Instructions, Hon. Sharon S. Armstrong, Co-Chair, Hon. William L. Downing, Co-Chair

    Part IV. Defenses
    WPIC CHAPTER 16. Justifiable Homicide

    WPIC 16.07 Justifiable Homicide—Actual Danger Not Necessary

    A person is entitled to act on appearances in defending [himself][herself][another], if that person believes in good faith and on reasonable grounds that [he][she][another] is in actual danger of great personal injury, although it afterwards might develop that the person was mistaken as to the extent of the danger.
    Actual danger is not necessary for a homicide to be justifiable.

    NOTE ON USE

    Use this instruction with WPIC 16.02, Justifiable Homicide—Defense of Self and Others, and WPIC 16.03, Resistance to Felony, when appropriate.
    Last edited by BigDave; 06-17-2011 at 05:12 PM.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  5. #5
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    Simple point of view...

    I'm a simple kind of guy...

    If someone points what looks like a gun... and you feel threatened. Simple math... You are justified to use deadly force if needed.



    Now if you know these are airsoft guns (since they just shot you with it...) - just report it. Shooting back at that point is going to get you into more trouble then those kids...
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  6. #6
    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    There were two situations in WA, about 5 years or so.....ago..


    Man in car is driving, kids point airsoft M16 out the window of their moms SUV, driver of the other car fires, leaving a few holes in the SUV... Driver is cleared of any wrongdoing.

    Man is going into a Taco Bell, and hears things whizzing by his head, he turns around to see a kid pointing what appears to be a gun @ him.. He pulls his, and the kid drops his 'gun', turns out it was airsoft... man is cleared of any wrongdoing. They end up arresting the kid for having an airsoft gun (apparently illegal in public,lol)

    I'm too tired to google it, but it was quite a number of years ago.
    Last edited by TechnoWeenie; 06-17-2011 at 08:19 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitney View Post
    None of the individuals are really identifiable.
    They will be identified. When people in this age group commit mischief, they brag to their peers and word gets around.

    I hope they're caught before they end up getting shot.

  8. #8
    Regular Member LibertyDeath's Avatar
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    An airsoft was responsible for these kids lying facedown in the dirt.

    The responding officer also found a pot pipe in his pocket.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Schlepnier's Avatar
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    I have several airsoft guns(of weapons i cannot legally or afford to own the real versions of, of course) And it is a great deal of fun to go to a sanctioned field and play team battles. who can complain about being able to go out into the woods and shoot your friends and not go to jail for it or cause any actual injury to them. (other than mabey their pride)


    However idiots like these are what make things bad for the rest of us and it quite honestly disgusts me. it usually leads to some knee jerk liberal politician trying to take away rights.....i chalk it up to the failure to instill proper gun saftey and training from an early age due to social attitudes towards weapons by ignorant members of our society.

    I think the threat threshold for use fo force has already been answered in this topic, i just needed to vent.
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  10. #10
    Regular Member xxx.jakk.xxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlepnier View Post
    I have several airsoft guns(of weapons i cannot legally or afford to own the real versions of, of course) And it is a great deal of fun to go to a sanctioned field and play team battles. who can complain about being able to go out into the woods and shoot your friends and not go to jail for it or cause any actual injury to them. (other than mabey their pride)


    However idiots like these are what make things bad for the rest of us and it quite honestly disgusts me. it usually leads to some knee jerk liberal politician trying to take away rights.....i chalk it up to the failure to instill proper gun saftey and training from an early age due to social attitudes towards weapons by ignorant members of our society.

    I think the threat threshold for use fo force has already been answered in this topic, i just needed to vent.
    +1

    People who do this with airsoft guns need to be punished. I would never think to take my airsoft guns out and shoot random people, but I'd also never think to do that with my real ones, either. These kids really need to see what these actions can cause and spend a few days in the local detention center.
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  11. #11
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    It is an assault, as far as I can tell. They are threatening with what looks like a weapon. There is no way to tell it isn't real until after they shoot - which if it IS real, is too late....

    Idiot kids that will either be arrested or kicked out of the gene pool.

  12. #12
    Regular Member GuidoZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitney View Post
    ... None of the individuals are really identifiable ...

    http://youtu.be/7bRQNwrRzbM
    They flash a few names at the beginning of the video. Even if they are just nicknames, someone from the area will recognize them.

    Pure idiots, plain and simple. If I was a witness (not a bystander being shot at), especially if I had my children with me, I would return fire for the safety of others. Unfortunate for them, I have had training in hitting a moving target, and believe I'm fairly good at it.

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  13. #13
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    Along with most of the people here, I would be putting rounds in their vehicle before it would be time to recognize if it was an airsoft or not, I mean airsoft guns (own 6) aren't perfect scale but theres no time to determine that so its their own fault for ending up in the morgue having slugs removed.
    Whoever thought switching to your sidearm was faster than reloading your rifle has never been hit in the **** with a swinging barrel.

    You cant fight the Gorgatron with your keys all... willy nilly..

  14. #14
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ApacheBunny View Post
    Along with most of the people here, I would be putting rounds in their vehicle before it would be time to recognize if it was an airsoft or not, I mean airsoft guns (own 6) aren't perfect scale but theres no time to determine that so its their own fault for ending up in the morgue having slugs removed.
    And how can you be sure that it's just an "airsoft" gun? The orange tip??? Remember, there is at least one fool out there that put an orange tip on his AK-47 Pistol. So just because you see an orange tip, does that mean you're safe?

    And then there are those that remove the tips so they can make everyone believe that the guns are real. That could be construed as just asking to be killed by someone "defending" them self.
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  15. #15
    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    In CA they are trying to pass a law that requires air soft guns to be anything but black. But at night in the dark in the heat of the moment who is going to see much more than the end of the barrel?
    "The beauty of the Second Amenment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson
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  16. #16
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    if I see a gun, and I hear what in that instant my mind tells me is surpressed gun fire, AND i hear things WIZZING by my ears, you can best believe scared for my life and will act appropriately!!! That's life or death, you're not going to have time to be like, oh that's not a real surpressor on that gun, that's a 6mm plastic bb wizzing by my ear and that noise is just air.

  17. #17
    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Schlitz said [QUOTEif I see a gun, and I hear what in that instant my mind tells me is surpressed gun fire, AND i hear things WIZZING by my ears, you can best believe scared for my life and will act appropriately!!! That's life or death][/QUOTE]

    "Two way range fire" was mentioned in another thread and I believe it applies here. For those of us who have visited this range and walked away this could be a scary situation. There was a real drive by a quarter mile from my house and I am NOT going to walk over and inspect a weapon when it is pointed out of a window. I will react. Do not bring a knife or an airsoft to a GUNFIGHT.
    It is my personal opinion (so you all know what it is worth) that children are not taught firearms use or safety. TV, comics, movies, all turn our tools into toys. I will feel badly if these kids get shot, "but they know not what they do..."

  18. #18
    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    Some kids are taught better than others. Today I mounted a scope on my son's .22 rifle, and asked him to check it out. Without saying a word the first thing he did when he picked it up was to clear it. We will be at the Waddle Shoot, and if you are real nice he might let you try "his" Hi-Point Carbine. Bring some 9mm to shoot it.
    "The beauty of the Second Amenment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    And how can you be sure that it's just an "airsoft" gun? The orange tip??? Remember, there is at least one fool out there that put an orange tip on his AK-47 Pistol. So just because you see an orange tip, does that mean you're safe?

    And then there are those that remove the tips so they can make everyone believe that the guns are real. That could be construed as just asking to be killed by someone "defending" them self.
    doesn't matter if there was an orange tip on there if it looks real enough real guns will be pointed back at them, and depending on the person they pointed their real or fake gun at will depend on if they end up with cuffs or in the morgue. Also I painted over the orange tips on mine since i don't bring them into any towns or cities and all my matches are held out in the fields on private property and since an orange tip is like a big orange kill me indicator during games.
    Whoever thought switching to your sidearm was faster than reloading your rifle has never been hit in the **** with a swinging barrel.

    You cant fight the Gorgatron with your keys all... willy nilly..

  20. #20
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    While I know many want to say it would be justified to return fire even if it is a toy, but at what point is one really aware of the actual threat?

    Now if they were there pointing a replica of a gun at you and have not shot then I would by all means employ my weapon as up to that point I only had visual information that would lead anyone to believe it was real.

    The sound and visuals would quickly indicate that it is a paint ball or airsoft and at that point how does one justify to actually pull the trigger?

    In the videos they were hit and moving away within what 2 seconds at each incident?

    Granted I would be startled but would know as soon as things hit it was not a real gun and if they are already running away and then what, do you really want to try and justify chasing them down or returning fire as they race off and no longer shooting?

    It is a game rather not played and even if someone was shot, then there are really no winners.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  21. #21
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    Well it wasnt that hard to find two of them.

    http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?...sk=wall&v=wall

    http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000075849740

    Dont know if any of you guys have inroads with the local PD over that direction. But at least one of them owned up to being there and doing those things.
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  22. #22
    Regular Member J_Douglass's Avatar
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    A lot of airsoft guns don't have orange tips on them either. Especially the ones that are designed to look like their explosive projectile launching counterparts. I would return fire.

  23. #23
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    i was milliseconds from dropping a man pointing a gun at someone at an ATM from a truck window. he fired before i could get into a firing position. good thing because i saw it was an air soft. the idiot pointing it saw I had my hand on mine and dropped it and turned white. he prolly wont do that again.

    had he not fired it would have reasonable belief that he had a 9mm bereta extorting an innocent person for money using deadly force.

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