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Thread: Out of State Michigan Pistol, Question ??????

  1. #1
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Out of State Michigan Pistol, Question ??????

    I often think about visiting my friends in the states I study and read and write with, for one week,
    and i would take the guns i have that are appropriate to the states i would visit.
    and I have a book bag/lock box for those pesky GFSZ problem areas.
    I've always liked your michigan pistol law, but dont care for any kind of registration.
    we dont have any registration in washington, but we dont have michigan pistols either.

    so since i cant have one, I got the next best thing,
    an AK-47 Pistol!

    In any state that i can carry a loaded pistol in a car,
    i can carry a rifle caliber,
    an almost michigan pistol,
    and an almost a Real rifle, LOADED!

    So, I ALSO have a folding AK-47 rifle, with lots of tacticool lasers and light and reflex sights, and a bipod,
    the PERFECT michigan pistol.

    So the question IS!!!,,,
    If i visit Michigan with my guns and my recognized and honored
    washington state CPL,
    CAN I TAKE my folding AK-47 Rifle, LOADED!!!, in my Car??

    I would be carrying in accordance with machigan state law,
    But my rifle would not be registered as a pistol,
    and i would not have a permit to purchase a pistol.
    Last edited by 1245A Defender; 06-18-2011 at 05:11 AM.
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  2. #2
    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    I defer to Michigander.
    Last edited by eastmeyers; 06-20-2011 at 12:34 PM.
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  3. #3
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    You need to comply with both Michigan law, and the restrictions on your license while carrying as a non resident in Michigan, in addition to the federal GFSZA which doesn't allow you to carry near a school without a Michigan license, which you obviously don't have.

    As you may know, racist legislators and lobbyists in the 1920's mandated that ALL handguns must be registered, and the registration law defines itself as a licensing process, and exempts from this process licensed people from out of state. In essence, any handgun in Michigan MUST be licensed to be possessed under any circumstance.

    So, my opinion would be that unless your Washington license explicitly licenses you to carry Michigan pistols in Washington, don't bring it. OR you can have it here in a configuration of at least 30", and possess it lawfully in certain circumstances as a Federal and State rifle.

    If you're dead set on car carrying a x39, the easiest and best option is likely the federal and state AK pistol. I do NOT suggest you try to carry a Michigan pistol in Michigan, period.
    Last edited by Michigander; 06-19-2011 at 07:46 PM.
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  4. #4
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Michigander,
    Are you saying that, from a legal standpoint, he should NOT carry a "Michigan Pistol" (firearm measures <30 in.) while in Michigan even though he has a CPL from Washington state??
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

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  5. #5
    Regular Member Greyh Seer's Avatar
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    Maybe I'm confused, but without a CPL, wouldn't any handgun that wasn't purchased with a PPP be illegal?

    28.422

    Sec. 2. (1) Except as otherwise provided in this section, a person shall not purchase, carry, possess, or
    transport a pistol in this state without first having obtained a license for the pistol as prescribed in this section
    .

    <<SNIP>>

    (8) An individual who is not a resident of this state is not required to obtain a license under this section if
    all of the following
    conditions apply:
    (a) The individual is licensed in his or her state of residence to purchase, carry, or transport a pistol.
    (b) The individual is in possession of the license described in subdivision (a).
    (c) The individual is the owner of the pistol he or she possesses, carries, or transports.
    (d) The individual possesses the pistol for a lawful purpose as that term is defined in section 231a of the
    Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.231a.
    (e) The individual is in this state for a period of 180 days or less and does not intend to establish residency
    in this state.

    (9) An individual who is a nonresident of this state shall present the license described in subsection (8)(a)
    upon the demand of a police officer. An individual who violates this subsection is guilty of a misdemeanor
    punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.
    Last edited by Greyh Seer; 06-20-2011 at 02:45 PM.

  6. #6
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greyh Seer View Post
    Maybe I'm confused, but without a CPL, wouldn't any handgun that wasn't purchased with a PPP be illegal?
    I believe the OP stated he has a Washington CPL.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  7. #7
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    IMOP and INAL...

    If he has a valid license for the concealing of a pistol from his home state and that license is recognized by MI. Then he should be able to carry any pistol whether it is a pistol by state law in his home state or not.

    Really the big deal with MI Pistols is that they have to be registered in MI. However his out of state CPL would exempt him from registering anything that MI deems a pistol. Remember this is only a state law issue and unless his home state had a specific restriction on carrying firearms that meet the definition of a MI pistol the fact that they are silent on the matter does not IMOP a restriction make!

    And that is my Opinion based on my understanding of the law.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  8. #8
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    750.231a Exceptions to MCL 750.227(2); definitions.

    Sec. 231a.

    (1) Subsection (2) of section 227 does not apply to any of the following:

    (a) To a person holding a valid license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by his or her state of residence except where the pistol is carried in nonconformance with a restriction appearing on the license.

    SNIP

    You could argue that Washington's definition of pistol changes into Michigan's when and if 1245 comes to Michigan with a 26-30" long gun. You could also argue that just having the license for a "pistol" of any kind, even just a black powder carry permit (hypothetically speaking since none likely exist other than for hunting) would enable a person to open carry any Michigan recognized pistol in Michigan under this statute, so long as it doesn't say NOT to carry a particular pistol.

    But, you could also say that because it isn't specifically licensed (maybe, I don't know what the Washington permit is good for), it isn't exempt, and the possession would be unlawful.

    To me, it seems like minimally a gray area, though I'd love to be proven wrong.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

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  9. #9
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Washington state has no restriction on what type of handgun may be carried. They seem to follow federal law in their definitions including length.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  10. #10
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by autosurgeon View Post
    IMOP and INAL...

    If he has a valid license for the concealing of a pistol from his home state and that license is recognized by MI. Then he should be able to carry any pistol whether it is a pistol by state law in his home state or not.

    Really the big deal with MI Pistols is that they have to be registered in MI. However his out of state CPL would exempt him from registering anything that MI deems a pistol. Remember this is only a state law issue and unless his home state had a specific restriction on carrying firearms that meet the definition of a MI pistol the fact that they are silent on the matter does not IMOP a restriction make!

    And that is my Opinion based on my understanding of the law.
    Mine also.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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