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Thread: Visiting OK for a wedding

  1. #1
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Visiting OK for a wedding

    I will be flying into OK next month for a wedding. I will be reading the pdf on Handgunlaw.us, but it would be nice to have a quick reference guide. What places are off limits? And before it is asked, I do have a permit that is valid in OK.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Here is a link to the SDA book on the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation website. This should be the most up to date and correct source of information.

    SDA Law Book

    Quote Originally Posted by "Title 21 Section 1277
    UNLAWFUL CARRY IN CERTAIN PLACES
    A. It shall be unlawful for any person in possession of a valid concealed handgun license issued pursuant to the provisions of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act to carry any concealed handgun into any of the following places:
    1. Any structure, building, or office space which is owned or leased by a city, town, county, state, or federal governmental authority for the purpose of conducting business with the public;
    2. Any meeting of any city, town, county, state or federal officials, school board members, legislative members, or any other elected or appointed officials;
    3. Any prison, jail, detention facility or any facility used to process, hold, or house arrested persons, prisoners or persons alleged delinquent or adjudicated delinquent;
    4. Any elementary or secondary school, or technology center school property;
    5. Any sports arena during a professional sporting event;
    6. Any place where pari-mutuel wagering is authorized by law; and
    7. Any other place specifically prohibited by law.
    Although it does not specifically mention it here, places with gun buster signs would fall under item 7.

    Oklahoma does have a parking lot law, so leaving a firearm in your vehicle at any of the prohibited places is lawfully acceptable.

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    It is also illegal to "willingly or knowingly" carry into a place whose primary income is from the sale of alcohol. A restaurant with a bar doesn't count but a plain bar or liquor store does count. Though with how the law is worded it seems like one could simply claim they forgot they were carrying if they went into a liquor store.

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    It is also illegal to "willingly or knowingly" carry into a place whose primary income is from the sale of alcohol. A restaurant with a bar doesn't count but a plain bar or liquor store does count. Though with how the law is worded it seems like one could simply claim they forgot they were carrying if they went into a liquor store.
    How is a liquor store off limits? It isn't like you are drinking in there. Pardon my French, but that is retarded.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    How is a liquor store off limits? It isn't like you are drinking in there. Pardon my French, but that is retarded.
    When I was talking with a CFP instructor he had said they were off-limits and it likely has to do with the fact that 1272.2 is titled "Penalty for firearm in liquor establishment" and the fact htat 1272.1 states"

    A. It shall be unlawful for any person to carry or possess any weapon designated in Section 1272 of this title in any establishment where low-point beer, as defined by Section 163.2 of Title 37 of the Oklahoma Statutes, or alcoholic beverages, as defined by Section 506 of Title 37 of the Oklahoma Statutes, are consumed. This provision shall not apply to a peace officer, as defined in Section 99 of this title, or to private investigators with a firearms authorization when acting in the scope and course of employment, and shall not apply to an owner or proprietor of the establishment having a pistol, rifle, or shotgun on the premises. Provided however, a person possessing a valid concealed handgun license pursuant to the provisions of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, Section 1290.1 et seq. of this title may carry the concealed handgun into any restaurant or other establishment licensed to dispense low-point beer or alcoholic beverages where the sale of low-point beer or alcoholic beverages does not constitute the primary purpose of the business.

    Provided further, nothing in this section shall be interpreted to authorize any peace officer in actual physical possession of a weapon to consume low-point beer or alcoholic beverages, except in the authorized line of duty as an undercover officer.

    Nothing in this section shall be interpreted to authorize any private investigator with a firearms authorization in actual physical possession of a weapon to consume low-point beer or alcoholic beverages in any establishment where low-point beer or alcoholic beverages are consumed.

    B. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be punished as provided in Section 1272.2 of this title.
    I posted the whole law so that others can read it, but the important part is the bolded part. The sale of "alcoholic beverages" constitutes almost the whole of business conducted in a liquor store even if they aren't consumed there and thus could be construed as off-limits; though this contradicts the opening sentence which states that it must be a place where the alcohol is consumed. But then the first part refers to ANY person, while the bolded part only refers to people with a CFP and thus seems to be more restrictive for those with a CFP (nevermind the fact that it's already illegal for someone to carry a weapon w/o a CFP). This isn't the first place in OK law that I've found to contradict itself.

    Personally I wouldn't want to be the test case, but at the same time we're talking about CC so if one takes the law to mean only establishments where the alcohol is consumed it isn't like anyone should know about the gun; and you can fall back on the whole "intentionally or knowingly" part of 1272.2 as a defense should a person be charged. A court would have a hard time proving that you "intentionally or knowingly" carried your weapon in with you and that you hadn't simply forgotten about it much like how one doesn't think if they have their wallet or phone on them until they need it.

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    When I was talking with a CFP instructor he had said they were off-limits and it likely has to do with the fact that 1272.2 is titled "Penalty for firearm in liquor establishment" and the fact htat 1272.1 states"



    I posted the whole law so that others can read it, but the important part is the bolded part. The sale of "alcoholic beverages" constitutes almost the whole of business conducted in a liquor store even if they aren't consumed there and thus could be construed as off-limits; though this contradicts the opening sentence which states that it must be a place where the alcohol is consumed. But then the first part refers to ANY person, while the bolded part only refers to people with a CFP and thus seems to be more restrictive for those with a CFP (nevermind the fact that it's already illegal for someone to carry a weapon w/o a CFP). This isn't the first place in OK law that I've found to contradict itself.

    Personally I wouldn't want to be the test case, but at the same time we're talking about CC so if one takes the law to mean only establishments where the alcohol is consumed it isn't like anyone should know about the gun; and you can fall back on the whole "intentionally or knowingly" part of 1272.2 as a defense should a person be charged. A court would have a hard time proving that you "intentionally or knowingly" carried your weapon in with you and that you hadn't simply forgotten about it much like how one doesn't think if they have their wallet or phone on them until they need it.
    Especially me being out of state. *whistles innocently*

    What is low point beer? Is there a legal limit to drink and still be able to carry?
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    Especially me being out of state. *whistles innocently*

    What is low point beer? Is there a legal limit to drink and still be able to carry?
    Beer limited to 3.2% alcohol by volume. Only "three-two" beer can be sold for consumption on the premises, and at one time it was the only beer that could be sold cold, instead of room temperature, even for consumption off the premises. (My information might be out of date; it's been a long time since I lived in Oklahoma.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    Beer limited to 3.2% alcohol by volume. Only "three-two" beer can be sold for consumption on the premises, and at one time it was the only beer that could be sold cold, instead of room temperature, even for consumption off the premises. (My information might be out of date; it's been a long time since I lived in Oklahoma.)
    Low point (3.2%) can be sold in any store where as high point (6%) can only be sold in package stores that restrict access to those over the age of 21.

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    So is there a BAC level that is legal? I ask because I want to remain within the law. If I cannot carry, then I won't.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    So is there a BAC level that is legal? I ask because I want to remain within the law. If I cannot carry, then I won't.
    Oklahoma does not have a legal limit for carrying. So any drinking means no carrying.

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    Technically the law simply states while under the influence of alcohol without stating what is considered as under the influence. So if one were to CC and blow low enough they could probably argue that they weren't under the influence even though it was in their system.

    I wouldn't want to be the one to fight it, but this is another example of potentially confusing state law.

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    It also depends on where you are ... in the more rural counties, there is generally more discretion allowed on the part of law enforcement than in the more metro areas (OKC, Tulsa, Lawton, Enid, Altus.) Then, there is always the hard nosed one you run into with a no tolerance attitude.

    There is also the bank situation. Some branches of the same bank do not post the no-carry sign. My rural town the bank posts the sign, but they know I carry. The OKC branch does not post the sign, but have a uniformed security guard carrying in the lobby.

    Oh, and watch carefully in any pharmacy ... evidently the same guy has robbed the same pharmacy three times in the past 30 days.

    Also, be very careful in high winds ... if it 'prints' your gun, some cops have been known to walk up and hassle folks. Others want to know what you are carrying and such.

    Also, OK is a "must notify" state, so that means if you have ANY contact with law enforcement, you MUST notify them you are carrying ... generally, handing over your DL, insurance verification AND your CCP will qualify as notification.

    Basically, if you act like a half-way decent human being, law enforcement will not be unreasonable in return.

    Also, if you own a business, you have the right to determine whether or not to conceal on your premisis ... so if you go into H&H you will see the employees walking around with their guns in plain sight ... and if I am there, and I need a pit stop I holster and walk to the bathroom
    cheers - okboomer
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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    I'll be going to Norman. I've decided to not take my firearm with me as I'll be flying out of O'Haire in Chicago. I've heard of many stories of people getting their firearms stolen there. I don't want mine to be used in any crime, so I'm keeping it at home.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Quote Originally Posted by okboomer View Post
    Also, OK is a "must notify" state, so that means if you have ANY contact with law enforcement, you MUST notify them you are carrying ... generally, handing over your DL, insurance verification AND your CCP will qualify as notification.

    Basically, if you act like a half-way decent human being, law enforcement will not be unreasonable in return.
    Oklahoma isn't a "must notify" in the way you describe. Per Title 21 1290.8:

    ...
    C. It shall be unlawful for any person to fail or refuse to identify the fact that the person is in actual possession of a concealed handgun pursuant to the authority of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act when the person first comes into contact with any law enforcement officer of this state or its political subdivisions or a federal law enforcement officer during the course of any arrest, detainment, or routine traffic stop...
    I bolded the important part. It is only during detainment, arrest, or routine traffic stop that you "must notify" the police of your weapon.

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    You can carry in a liquor store because alcoholic beverages arent consumed there.

    A. It shall be unlawful for any person to carry or possess any weapon designated in Section 1272 of this title in any establishment where low-point beer, as defined by Section 163.2 of Title 37 of the Oklahoma Statutes, or alcoholic beverages, as defined by Section 506 of Title 37 of the Oklahoma Statutes, are consumed. This provision shall not apply to a peace officer, as defined in Section 99 of this title, or to private investigators with a firearms authorization when acting in the scope and course of employment, and shall not apply to an owner or proprietor of the establishment having a pistol, rifle, or shotgun on the premises. Provided however, a person possessing a valid concealed handgun license pursuant to the provisions of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, Section 1290.1 et seq. of this title may carry the concealed handgun into any restaurant or other establishment licensed to dispense low-point beer or alcoholic beverages where the sale of low-point beer or alcoholic beverages does not constitute the primary purpose of the business.

    Provided further, nothing in this section shall be interpreted to authorize any peace officer in actual physical possession of a weapon to consume low-point beer or alcoholic beverages, except in the authorized line of duty as an undercover officer.

    Nothing in this section shall be interpreted to authorize any private investigator with a firearms authorization in actual physical possession of a weapon to consume low-point beer or alcoholic beverages in any establishment where low-point beer or alcoholic beverages are consumed.

    B. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be punished as provided in Section 1272.2 of this title.

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    MM 45 the issue I see in what you posted is section A paragraph 1 the last sentence where it states that it can't be a place where the sale of alcoholic beverages are the primary source of income. Is there anything out there (such as case law or official opinion) that states the sale of alcohol intended to be consumed elsewhere doesn't meet the requirements of this statute? Or maybe someone can better explain why they think it doesn't apply to liquor stores.

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    I do see what you mean but the section is talking about carrying weapons into places where alcohol is consumed. I see how it could be interpreted as you couldnt carry in a liquor store. I'll look more into that issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    Oklahoma isn't a "must notify" in the way you describe. Per Title 21 1290.8:
    I bolded the important part. It is only during detainment, arrest, or routine traffic stop that you "must notify" the police of your weapon.
    I do stand corrected, but in my experience, I generally don't have any other type of contact with LEO (yeah, they call me lead-foot ;-) But, in my CC class, it was stressed that if you have LEO contact in which you provide your DL (traffic stop) then it is a must-notify. As for detainment or arrest, not happening here

    Aknazer, I think you live east of me, not sure how close/often you are to/in a metro, but I am only occassionally and generally do not have any kind of contact with LEO ... traffic stops I have been in are usually on the highway (OHP) or in my rural town/surrounding counties (very rarely and they know who carries and who doesn't, small town ya know). And more often than not, the stop turns into a gun discussion.

    Luckily, a simple traffic stop does not warrant dispatch notifying the officer of our CCL, unlike some other states.
    cheers - okboomer
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    Quote Originally Posted by okboomer View Post
    I do stand corrected, but in my experience, I generally don't have any other type of contact with LEO (yeah, they call me lead-foot ;-) But, in my CC class, it was stressed that if you have LEO contact in which you provide your DL (traffic stop) then it is a must-notify. As for detainment or arrest, not happening here

    Aknazer, I think you live east of me, not sure how close/often you are to/in a metro, but I am only occassionally and generally do not have any kind of contact with LEO ... traffic stops I have been in are usually on the highway (OHP) or in my rural town/surrounding counties (very rarely and they know who carries and who doesn't, small town ya know). And more often than not, the stop turns into a gun discussion.

    Luckily, a simple traffic stop does not warrant dispatch notifying the officer of our CCL, unlike some other states.
    My point was more that if you come into contact with an LEO you don't have to always notify them. For example if you ask an officer in bricktown a question you don't have to notify them. I live in Midwest city and don't really come into contact with officers, but out of the few I have come into contact most didn't approve of OC and I didn't get a warm fuzzy when talking with them. The exception was the one I met at the ok2a meeting.

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    You're right in a contact initiated by you, you have no duty to notify. As I indicated, most of my contact comes through traffic stops so then I have a duty to notify.

    Yes, I agree that most cops don't want to see OC, and most City PD where I live don't like CC either. I have had some very smarmy comments from them, but then, I shoot at the range often. One year, all the PD here FAILED their annual qualifying shoot! You can tell when quals are coming up by listening to the scanner and hear all the PD going 10-8 at the range that the city built for them

    Thankfully, most are passing their annual qual lately
    cheers - okboomer
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    Quote Originally Posted by okboomer View Post
    You're right in a contact initiated by you, you have no duty to notify. As I indicated, most of my contact comes through traffic stops so then I have a duty to notify.

    Yes, I agree that most cops don't want to see OC, and most City PD where I live don't like CC either. I have had some very smarmy comments from them, but then, I shoot at the range often. One year, all the PD here FAILED their annual qualifying shoot! You can tell when quals are coming up by listening to the scanner and hear all the PD going 10-8 at the range that the city built for them

    Thankfully, most are passing their annual qual lately
    I somewhat enjoy talking to people who think that all LEOs know everything about firearms. That is until I start mentioning stories of NDs and officers being unsafe. Then the folks I'm talking to realize just how un-knowledgeable some people really are. The campus cops at the college I went to were about the same....about a month before quals they all started going to the range so they could pass. Was talking to one officer once and he said there were some officers who only removed their firearm from the holster once a year....at qual time.

  22. #22
    Regular Member okboomer's Avatar
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    Scary, huh? But then, they say the best gun to buy used is an LEO gun as it has been cleaned, but shot very little LOL

    I haven't been shooting lately ... too hot at the outdoor range, but I know I could out shoot most of the LEOs here, and I noticed the Sheriff dept hadn't won any LEO shoot championships for the past 12 years or so when I was up there during the winter. Trophy for year after year after year, then nothing! Someone must have retired
    cheers - okboomer
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    Exercising my 2A Rights does NOT make me a CRIMINAL! Infringing on the exercise of those rights makes YOU one!

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