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Thread: Be nice to officers during encounters, they go through quite a bit. [Poplawski trial]

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    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    Be nice to officers during encounters, they go through quite a bit. [Poplawski trial]

    Some of you may be aware Pittsburgh had 3 officers killed in April of 2009. The harsh reality is there are thugs and crazy individuals out there who wish to do harm.

    Story:
    Injured Officer Eric Kelly: 'Tell My Wife, Kids I Love Them'
    http://www.wpxi.com/news/28292424/detail.html

    Richard Poplawski, a member of a white supremacy group called StormFront and PAFOA(banned and posts removed upon incident) member, killed 3 Pittsburgh police officers. The trial began today with Judge Manning as the presiding judge.

    Be nice to officers if you have an encounter, even a negative encounter. Keep in mind incidents like this happen in large areas and thugs are shooting at them with junk guns and 22 caliber pistols.

    So come on, guys... gals... speak calmly and orderly when talking with officers. Not only will you relieve stress, you'll possibly even gain a new acquaintance or friend like I have done each and every time.

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    I am nice to officers--even when they stop me unlawfully. That does not mean that I won't challenge their unlawful actions. One can be nice and assertive at the same time.

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    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    I am nice to officers--even when they stop me unlawfully. That does not mean that I won't challenge their unlawful actions. One can be nice and assertive at the same time.
    I'm not saying one shouldn't bring light to unlawful actions, but I've seen open carriers act inappropriately, some posting their inappropriate actions on forums.

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    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by david.ross View Post
    I'm not saying one shouldn't bring light to unlawful actions, but I've seen open carriers act inappropriately, some posting their inappropriate actions on forums.
    Please give a couple examples of OC-ers you've seen acting inappropriately, so we can all learn.

    My empathy to those who lost their lives and to their families. Most who carry are quite respectful to professionally acting LEOs, I like to think.
    A gun in a holster is better than one drawn and dispensing bullets. Concealed forces the latter. - ixtow

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    I am nice to officers--even when they stop me unlawfully. That does not mean that I won't challenge their unlawful actions. One can be nice and assertive at the same time.
    +1

    The problem with many officers is they see any challenge to "authority" as "confrontational" no matter how polite you are.

    Quote Originally Posted by david.ross View Post
    I'm not saying one shouldn't bring light to unlawful actions, but I've seen open carriers act inappropriately, some posting their inappropriate actions on forums.
    Links? I see hyperbole and emphatic discussions but have not seen many posts off inappropriate behavior.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    We The Citizens, are the MASTERS not the SERVANTS.

    Being stopped for a possible law violation, unknown tail light out etc... I would expect the LEO to be very polite and courtious. Then unless there other issues, be informed of the problem so that compliance can be achieved. I see no reason why that a police officer should not address the members of the public as Sir or Mam, regardless of the age.

    Having a firearm in a open carry situation, unless prohibited BY LAW does not mean a violation of law is happening and as such, All I expect to hear from the CIVIL SERVANT is good (morning, afternoon or evening)Sir.

    Oh BTW I am a retired cop and that is exactly the way I conducted myself for over 30years.
    Last edited by Rattrapper; 06-21-2011 at 09:56 AM.

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by david.ross View Post
    Some of you may be aware Pittsburgh had 3 officers killed in April of 2009. The harsh reality is there are thugs and crazy individuals out there who wish to do harm.

    Story:
    Injured Officer Eric Kelly: 'Tell My Wife, Kids I Love Them'
    http://www.wpxi.com/news/28292424/detail.html

    Richard Poplawski, a member of a white supremacy group called StormFront and PAFOA(banned and posts removed upon incident) member, killed 3 Pittsburgh police officers. The trial began today with Judge Manning as the presiding judge.

    Be nice to officers if you have an encounter, even a negative encounter. Keep in mind incidents like this happen in large areas and thugs are shooting at them with junk guns and 22 caliber pistols.

    So come on, guys... gals... speak calmly and orderly when talking with officers. Not only will you relieve stress, you'll possibly even gain a new acquaintance or friend like I have done each and every time.
    Yeah, makes sense. They could get splinters when they kick in the doors of innocent people's homes and the noise from their "assault" rifles when they gun them down is probably quite loud. Of course, the innocents they execute don't really have much of a chance to "be nice" to them now, do they? If they don't have the balls to be cops, go work in a Burger King. Anyone who has served this country in the combat military doesn't owe them dick. They get well paid for what they do. A hell of a lot more than an E-2 in SWA.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    In regards to the OP's request I respectfully decline.

    While perusing my right to make a living in my chosen profession my 1A rights are violated yearly by thugs and crazy individuals out there who wish to do harm. They have every single time been hiding behind a badge. So when I am detained illegally, in a negative encounter yet again, I'll be anything but calm and orderly.

    Too bad to because 99% of my clients who are present and past law enforcement are nice normal people.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
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    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

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    Quote Originally Posted by david.ross View Post
    So come on, guys... gals... speak calmly and orderly when talking with officers. Not only will you relieve stress, you'll possibly even gain a new acquaintance or friend like I have done each and every time.

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    Regular Member LibertyDeath's Avatar
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    Most of the LEOs that stop you just for OC are probably brainwashed into the guns are evil in the hands of citizens mantra. Criminals are typically stupid, the type of stupid that give up rights and incriminate themselves. I would say the majority of LEOs are not out to violate your rights but to have you give them up voluntarily, because that's what stupid criminals do.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Rattrapper View Post
    We The Citizens, are the MASTERS not the SERVANTS.

    Being stopped for a possible law violation, unknown tail light out etc... I would expect the LEO to be very polite and courtious. Then unless there other issues, be informed of the problem so that compliance can be achieved. I see no reason why that a police officer should not address the members of the public as Sir or Mam, regardless of the age.

    Having a firearm in a open carry situation, unless prohibited BY LAW does not mean a violation of law is happening and as such, All I expect to hear from the CIVIL SERVANT is good (morning, afternoon or evening)Sir.

    Oh BTW I am a retired cop and that is exactly the way I conducted myself for over 30years.
    Glad to hear that from an LEO retired or not.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by david.ross View Post
    I'm not saying one shouldn't bring light to unlawful actions, but I've seen open carriers act inappropriately, some posting their inappropriate actions on forums.
    I ask again, please (being respectful) post links or cites of OC-ers acting inappropriately and/or posting their inappropriate actions on forums. I don't me those people who have websites who challenge the police, I assume you mean one of the rank and file.

    Failing to do so, I think you need to post a retraction and an apology.

    Thanks and have a good day.
    A gun in a holster is better than one drawn and dispensing bullets. Concealed forces the latter. - ixtow

    Hi, I'm hypercritical. But I mean no harm, I just like to try to look deeply at life

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    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    I ask again, please (being respectful) post links or cites of OC-ers acting inappropriately and/or posting their inappropriate actions on forums. I don't me those people who have websites who challenge the police, I assume you mean one of the rank and file.
    Poplawski was "one of us"(On PAFOA).
    There is a user I shall not name, who acts inappropriately towards LEOs calling htem bunny cops and irritating in order to make them go away.
    We have Alaska people who OC, who made headlines for being "against police corruption" who acted completely inappropriately. One of which whined like a little girl because he was charged for not informing a cop he was concealing a firearm, at the same time wearing body armor and being one of those people who sit on the scanner waiting for an incident to occur just so he can record cops over possible rights infringement.

    Sir, these people are insults to the cause and humanity. There are police who are "bad" or unknowing, but such attitude and illicit behavior is unacceptable.

    You all wonder why people see OCers are "crazy white old guys?" Well those people, along with one person I see replied to this thread, is a prime example.

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    Yet you warned us, on this site. I know of one person here who pushed LEO buttons continuously and posted about doing so, and advocated doing so. He no longer posts here. Other than that, I don't see anyone here advocating not being "nice" to cops. Almost everyone here advocates for asserting our rights in an encounter. However, that has nothing to do with being "nice." One can rationally and civilly stand up for his rights in an encounter.

    I've done it twice now. I was "nice," and so were almost all of the officers (a grand total of eight). Yet, somehow, I still stood up for my rights.

    Please take this complaint to the sites on which you see the problem. You seemingly don't see it here.

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    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    Violate my rights under color of law as an LEO and I will "nicely" do everything humanly possible within the law to destroy your career and finances.

    Be ready to tell your kids that there won't be any Christmas (or college) because most of your paycheck is going to the "nice" man whose rights you violated in order to look like a "big man" to your friends.

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    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by david.ross View Post
    Poplawski was "one of us"(On PAFOA).
    The murderers of Kathryn Johnston were cops, as was Drew Petersen, the members of the robbery gangs INSIDE the Chicago and Philadelphia Police Departments, Officer Anthony Abbate (who tried to kick a barmaid to death in a drunken rage) and Officer Justin Volpe of the NYPD who committed a deviant sexual assault against a handcuffed prisoner with a plunger handle.

    Do you have similar admonitions for cops on law enforcement related message boards and blogs, especially like SecondCityCop, where the entire Black community of Chicago has regularly been referred to as "savages" and where it was repeatedly expressed that barmaid Karolyna Obrycka DESERVED to be savagely beaten because she was an "illegal alien"?

    Dr. Mengele, heal thyself.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by david.ross View Post
    Poplawski was "one of us"(On PAFOA).
    There is a user I shall not name, who acts inappropriately towards LEOs calling htem bunny cops and irritating in order to make them go away.
    We have Alaska people who OC, who made headlines for being "against police corruption" who acted completely inappropriately. One of which whined like a little girl because he was charged for not informing a cop he was concealing a firearm, at the same time wearing body armor and being one of those people who sit on the scanner waiting for an incident to occur just so he can record cops over possible rights infringement.

    Sir, these people are insults to the cause and humanity. There are police who are "bad" or unknowing, but such attitude and illicit behavior is unacceptable.

    You all wonder why people see OCers are "crazy white old guys?" Well those people, along with one person I see replied to this thread, is a prime example.
    Why the one way street? Cops are supposed to be constitutionally restricted, yet they poke and prod and entrap people all the time.

    I for one am for active and proactive watching of police. I see nothing wrong with sitting by a scanner and then going out and recording to make sure cops stay in line. I applaud such actions and think more should do so.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by david.ross View Post
    Poplawski was "one of us"(On PAFOA).
    <<<<<<<<<<<<<You all wonder why people see OCers are "crazy white old guys?" Well those people, along with one person I see replied to this thread, is a prime example.
    I don't wonder why "people" see OCers as crazy white old guys, because I don't think they do more and more as OC moves toward mainstream action in Free States.
    I don't advocate cop baiting, but think taping their actions has no down side whatsoever. Freedom of the press allows it for commercial purposes, freedom of the individual in that regard is even more sacred. If the cop is not committing a criminal act, why would he be opposed to it? The problem is, so many are on the internet--and TV, airways are full of their criminal behavior and the coverups that protect it by gutless DA cop ass kissers. I don't know of any overt cop hater on the forum, simply people who are outraged at 'individuals' actions. They are intolerable in a free country and must be wiped out as acceptable behavior and the perp cops subject to the fullest prosecution under the law and significant financial damages.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    I am an OCer, and I am beginning to see many (not all, not most, not even a large minority, but many) OCers as "crazy" (not in a medical or legal sense). Some of the postings here are contributing to that image.

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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Pot, meet kettle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    I ask again, please (being respectful) post links or cites of OC-ers acting inappropriately and/or posting their inappropriate actions on forums. I don't me those people who have websites who challenge the police, I assume you mean one of the rank and file.

    Failing to do so, I think you need to post a retraction and an apology.

    Thanks and have a good day.
    Are you really of the mindset that if a person cannot post you a link to some half assed news article that anything they say is false? Go on youtube.... I understand you would rather be directly linked there to cut out all the extra work but trust me, go to youtube and look up "open carry stop" etc etc etc and you will see plenty of people acting like complete idiots after being stopped, you will also see plenty of cops being idiots.

    Some guys here get SO into carrying a gun that it stops being about protection and starts being about attention. They make carrying a firearm openly into some big-boy hobby and that seems to be when things go downhill.

    You can find examples of people being innapropriate on this very forum, go look up any random OC encounter post and look for all the people exclaiming how they are about to go out to a place they know they arent welcome just to "test the waters"...

    Ive even seen people say things such as "Oh they kicked you out for OCing? cool ill go by later and test the waters.... ill bring my kids i just taught my 9 year old how to use the video camera "

    And that is truly disturbing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deanimator View Post
    Violate my rights under color of law as an LEO and I will "nicely" do everything humanly possible within the law to destroy your career and finances.

    Be ready to tell your kids that there won't be any Christmas (or college) because most of your paycheck is going to the "nice" man whose rights you violated in order to look like a "big man" to your friends.
    ^^^^ again, another good example of a really ****** mindset thats been going around lately. The "You wasted 5 minutes of my time now prepare to be sued for my trouble" attitude that people seem to love to employ. I wonder how many people here are going to strap on a recorder and go TRY to get stopped today just so they can pull this attitude...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hronisiver View Post
    Are you really of the mindset that if a person cannot post you a link to some half assed news article that anything they say is false? Go on youtube.... I understand you would rather be directly linked there to cut out all the extra work but trust me, go to youtube and look up "open carry stop" etc etc etc and you will see plenty of people acting like complete idiots after being stopped, you will also see plenty of cops being idiots.
    It isnt up to the responder to prove the claims of another, no more than it is up to you to cite cases referenced by someone else to support their position. It is up to the person making the allegation or claim to support that claim when challenged.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hronsiver
    Some guys here get SO into carrying a gun that it stops being about protection and starts being about attention. They make carrying a firearm openly into some big-boy hobby and that seems to be when things go downhill.

    You can find examples of people being innapropriate on this very forum, go look up any random OC encounter post and look for all the people exclaiming how they are about to go out to a place they know they arent welcome just to "test the waters"...
    If you have some instances to cite, post a link......

    Quote Originally Posted by Hronsiver
    Ive even seen people say things such as "Oh they kicked you out for OCing? cool ill go by later and test the waters.... ill bring my kids i just taught my 9 year old how to use the video camera "

    And that is truly disturbing.
    What is 'disturbing' about this, in your opinion?
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hronisiver View Post
    ^^^^ again, another good example of a really ****** mindset thats been going around lately. The "You wasted 5 minutes of my time now prepare to be sued for my trouble" attitude that people seem to love to employ. I wonder how many people here are going to strap on a recorder and go TRY to get stopped today just so they can pull this attitude...
    No, that is not accurate. It is a mindset that is more in keeping with "change the status quo."

    Some LE seem to believe they have powers that are not actual. It is entirely proper to challenge this when encountered. Why do you not agree with this? What is it about citizens standing up for their Rights that has you all in a tizzy?



    I see you are fairly new to these forums. How do you feel about some of the other Rights beyond the 2nd? How are you about the 4th and 5th amendments? Do you support those Rights?
    Last edited by wrightme; 06-28-2011 at 03:02 PM.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Regular Member Freedom First's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    I am an OCer, and I am beginning to see many (not all, not most, not even a large minority, but many) OCers as "crazy" (not in a medical or legal sense). Some of the postings here are contributing to that image.
    I see the same thing in most of my daily life. There is a growing disconnect for many people between actual reality and their percieved thought life.

    I think it's a byproduct of the virtual lives many lead on the internet, in social media and while gaming. Other people become percieved as artifical constructs and thus lose their humanity in the eyes of these disconnected folks.

    So the disconnected say and write things they would never say in person. That's why I don't do much online. Reality is precious.
    Freedom can never be lost, only given away by ignorance, by choice, or at the point of a gun. Here in America we can still choose.

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