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Thread: Under 21 Open carry question

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    Under 21 Open carry question

    Alright well here is the story, i was browsing around wally world casually and noticed a guy with some big mtech looking fixed blade knife, looked like crocodile dundeeto me, but anyway i was just walking when i came up behind him, at which point he pulls out his wallet. In his walled was some kind of badge looking thing, i didnt get a good look at it, and he says, "just a comment, you should carry your weapon in a level 3 holster since someone can take your gun in a level on snap holster", so we went on about holsters for a second, then he asked how old i was, i told him i was 20 years old. He then replied by saying that i needed to be 100ft (or possibly 100 yards, not sure which it was) near a person over 21 years to be able to open carry? He also told me he was a tactical instructor and did tactical classes all over the place. My question is about the 100 ft/yds thing, never heard it before, and it honestly makes no sense to me. can somone please fill me in on this?

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    Regular Member TOF's Avatar
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    He is full of it up to his ears.
    If you woke up breathing, congratulations! You get another chance.

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    I should also add in that he claims he has seen the serpa line of holsters cause accidental discharges as well, which i dont even think is possible.

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Complete nonsense.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by >meso.40< View Post
    I should also add in that he claims he has seen the serpa line of holsters cause accidental discharges as well, which i dont even think is possible.
    Aside from the guy giving you bogus advice and sounding like a "Strange Ranger" (wannabe cop), the Serpa issue has some validity to it - but probably because of "user error."

    (Note: Those of you who don't believe in safe gun handling can stop reading at this point)

    When I showed up for a couple of classes at Front Sight a few months ago, they informed all the students that if they had a Serpa holster, they had to either use a different holster or have the retention disabled. In past years, they were selling Serpa's in their Pro Shop.

    Because I don't use a Serpa holster, I just let it slide in one ear and out the other but figured that since Front Sight trains about 30,000 students a year they have experienced safety issues with the Serpa holster that led them to this decision.

    After looking at their recent Incident Reports, #9, #10 and #11 in particular, (as an aside, I was in the class where #7 happened) it looks like during the presentation, after applying inward pressure to push the Serpa retention button, there is a tendency for the finger pressure to continue inward as the gun is pulled from the holster until it slips into the trigger guard. This can result in an early (and negligent) discharge into your own leg.

    This extra inward pressure from the trigger finger is absent from a presentation using a non-Serpa holster.

    Fred
    Last edited by azcdlfred; 06-23-2011 at 10:29 AM.

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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by >meso.40< View Post
    My question is about the 100 ft/yds thing, never heard it before, and it honestly makes no sense to me. can somone please fill me in on this?
    There is no such requirement.

    Fred
    Last edited by azcdlfred; 06-23-2011 at 10:31 AM.

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    I figured as much, but i just wanted to make sure. The guy was polite about it and professional, so it wasnt all bad. As for ocing in a serpa, dont think ill be using them anymore as im not to fond of a remmington golden saber becoming a knee ornament. Any recommendations for a good, secure, and most importantly safe holster to replace the serpa?

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    Quote Originally Posted by >meso.40< View Post
    I figured as much, but i just wanted to make sure. The guy was polite about it and professional, so it wasnt all bad. As for ocing in a serpa, dont think ill be using them anymore as im not to fond of a remmington golden saber becoming a knee ornament. Any recommendations for a good, secure, and most importantly safe holster to replace the serpa?
    I use the Safariland SLS holster- it is way more secure and way more comfortable than my serpa- but it is a bit pricey. The Serpa long ago became holster box fodder.

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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by >meso.40< View Post
    Any recommendations for a good, secure, and most importantly safe holster to replace the serpa?
    Can't help as far as retention is concerned. My favorite is Blade-Tech Kydex holsters and I've been wearing them for over a decade, but the only retention I have are tension screws.

    They have developed a thumb-break style holster retention device but I'll stick with what I have.

    Fred

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    ill have to check out those blade tec holsters, ive heard about them before but never was all that interested. I was considering an uncle mikes kydex holster with retention strap for my 92fs..

    still confuses me about how a tactical training officer would somehow come up with the 100 yard or feet or whatever from a person over 21 thing.

  11. #11
    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by >meso.40< View Post
    ill have to check out those blade tec holsters, ive heard about them before but never was all that interested. I was considering an uncle mikes kydex holster with retention strap for my 92fs..
    I prefer kydex over regular plastic and the Uncle Mike holsters I've seen look O.K.

    I don't like the newer style of belt attachments that the new holsters have (including Balde-Tech). Looks like everyone copied the BlackHawk (Serpa) design. I still have Blade-Tech make my holsters their "old fashioned" way with a couple of belt loops molded into the top of the holster. It pulls the gun in closer to my belt, is more comfortable, and has a smaller profile.

    Blade-Tech's "Tek-lok" system is also low profile but the holster is not as close to the belt and you can't take advantage of a belt loop on the apex of your hip like you can with the other belt attachments.

    still confuses me about how a tactical training officer would somehow come up with the 100 yard or feet or whatever from a person over 21 thing.
    If he had someting that simple so wrong, what are the odds of him really being a tactical training officer? And just what is a "tactical training officer?" Sounds like a made up title to me.

    Fred

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    Quote Originally Posted by azcdlfred View Post
    I prefer kydex over regular plastic and the Uncle Mike holsters I've seen look O.K.

    I don't like the newer style of belt attachments that the new holsters have (including Balde-Tech). Looks like everyone copied the BlackHawk (Serpa) design. I still have Blade-Tech make my holsters their "old fashioned" way with a couple of belt loops molded into the top of the holster. It pulls the gun in closer to my belt, is more comfortable, and has a smaller profile.

    Blade-Tech's "Tek-lok" system is also low profile but the holster is not as close to the belt and you can't take advantage of a belt loop on the apex of your hip like you can with the other belt attachments.

    If he had someting that simple so wrong, what are the odds of him really being a tactical training officer? And just what is a "tactical training officer?" Sounds like a made up title to me.

    Fred


    I was thinking about a level 3 duty holster of some kind, but that is relly too much for me, i dont want to have to flip up a cover, type in the pass code, press 4 buttons in a sequential order... well you get the point so im going to go with either the blade tech or uncle mikes.

    As for the "training officer", im not sure.. really wish i would have seen the badge thing in his wallet. It was odd to me that he was a training officer, yet was only carrying a cheapo mtech fixed blade? he had shorts and a semi tight fitting shirt so im pretty sure he wasnt carrying concealed.

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    really???

    I use a serpa for every handgun I have when I decide to openly carry. As for the trigger finger wanting to keep going for the trigger when activating the retention device, I have never even remotely had this problem. I guess it would be a case of being sensible and always observing safety. As far as I am concerned, tell yourself not to touch ur trigger and you shouldnt. I think this is by far one of the safest holsters to use to prohibit a gun grab, and still have a lightning fast draw. I will continue using my serpas, and support blackhawk for constructing them here in the U.S.A......

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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KYGlockster View Post
    I use a serpa for every handgun I have when I decide to openly carry. As for the trigger finger wanting to keep going for the trigger when activating the retention device, I have never even remotely had this problem. I guess it would be a case of being sensible and always observing safety. As far as I am concerned, tell yourself not to touch ur trigger and you shouldnt. I think this is by far one of the safest holsters to use to prohibit a gun grab, and still have a lightning fast draw. I will continue using my serpas, and support blackhawk for constructing them here in the U.S.A......
    I wouldn't lose sleep over it if you are proficient at rapid and proper presentation from your Serpa holster and practice your presentation regularly so that you have imprinted and maintained the proper muscle memory.

    Keep in mind that the incident reports at Front Sight represent a whopping 11 self-inflicted injuries from a place that has trained probably well over 100,000 students and span over a decade. I suspect that after getting 3 in a row, all involving Serpa holsters, they took the path that protected students the most.

    Fred
    Last edited by azcdlfred; 06-30-2011 at 04:13 PM.

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