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Thread: Man killed in police raid!!

  1. #1
    Regular Member 1000ydshooter's Avatar
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    Man killed in police raid!!

    Story in local paper this morning.

    http://www.dailypress.com/news/hampt...,4280586.story

    When will the maddness end?
    FREEDOM ISNT FREE. BUT THE UNITED STATES MARINES ARE MORE THAN WILLING TO PAY YOUR SHARE!!

  2. #2
    Regular Member DontTreadOnMeVa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1000ydshooter View Post
    Story in local paper this morning.

    http://www.dailypress.com/news/hampt...,4280586.story

    When will the maddness end?
    Murdered a 69 year old decrepid man? If someone broke into my fathers home, he might well react the same way...and I fear how I would react to that. It will end when they start paying for their crimes against the citizenry.

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    I think we ought to wait and see what all shakes out of this before getting out the nooses and torches.

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    Regular Member 1000ydshooter's Avatar
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    I agree with you Dave. But the overly agressive police tactics need to end. Save them for times that call for them. The police will put a spin on this to cover their ass. It has happened in our area before. They just need to think of the better ways to handle things. But then again they need to justify their budget.
    FREEDOM ISNT FREE. BUT THE UNITED STATES MARINES ARE MORE THAN WILLING TO PAY YOUR SHARE!!

  5. #5
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    What is there to shake out? An old timer who walked with a cane was tried, convicted, and sentenced to Death by SWAT in the execution of a no knock warrant.

    For pills.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Another example why "drug" problems should be considered a "medical problem", not a "criminal problem".

  7. #7
    Regular Member dmatting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    Another example why "drug" problems should be considered a "medical problem", not a "criminal problem".
    +1

    The drug war has done far more harm than good. We have lost too many liberties to the drug war and have wasted too much money.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    <sarcasm on>

    This guy was OBVIOUSLY a "domestic terrorist" anyway. He had US flags flying on his property. He talked to his neighbors regularly. He did not sit cowering in his house despite being told by the media that home-invasions were epidemic in his area, and despite the fact that he was old and infirm. He was a gun owner.

    I'll bet he even owned a roll or two of tin foil...

    This is just the sort of guy who people like Cass Sunstein believe are the "greatest threat to the US" these days, so I'm sure that the actions of the police were completely justified, and he probably got what he deserved.

    <sarcasm off>
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Don't forget that he hated the American Farmer and thumbed his nose at them by growing his own tomatoes.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

  10. #10
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    How can you go into someone's home and shoot him and have this even pass the giggle test?
    Hampton Police Chief Charles R. Jordan Jr. has backed the two officers involved in the shooting, saying the case appears to be a justified act of self-defense.
    If you have well-trained officers who know their jobs and have a brain in their head, with a situation of an older gentleman who might be impaired, even WITH the 'we yelled Police', comment and CAN'T avoid shooting him, you need to go back to the police academy. You know he might have a HG, you know he might be startled. This is NOT a good candidate for an intrusive serving of a warrant.

    I'm not a LEO but here's what you do - so simple a CAVEMAN could do it - you wait until he comes out to get his mail and with dignity and calm you arrest him and gently put in in custody.
    A gun in a holster is better than one drawn and dispensing bullets. Concealed forces the latter. - ixtow

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  11. #11
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Or pick him up at the bar he was at. EVERY DAY.

    If there really was an informant surely he would have mentioned this little tidbit. Or maybe that's WHY the Cops invaded in the AM. So they could kill him before he hobbled down to the bar and got away.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

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    Regular Member Outdoorsman's Avatar
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    Thumbs down

    This could easily have been handled with non-violent methods. It's one thing if he was a violent felon and they needed to surprise him, but he was a handicapped, older man who may have sold some prescription meds. This absolutely did not call for a SWAT invasion!

  13. #13
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    What is there to shake out? An old timer who walked with a cane was tried, convicted, and sentenced to Death by SWAT in the execution of a no knock warrant.

    For pills.
    Allegedly for pills. Confidential informants are always around when the Gestapo kicks in a door and murders someone in their own home. Say he really did sell some percs. Is the penalty for that death in VA? More facts are needed, but one that is incontrovertable: the cops gunned down an old man in his own house.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    The investigators investigating themselves. More facts will come to light....maybe.
    Yeah. The SS were very thorough investigating themselves, too. Their conclusion: what death camps?
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

  15. #15
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    Allegedly...
    To be clear I meant the cops killed him because they were looking for pills.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    Say he really did sell some percs. Is the penalty for that death in VA?
    Yes. So is the accusation obviously.

    Siggety Heil!
    Last edited by HandyHamlet; 06-21-2011 at 04:18 PM.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

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    So, what's this? Three in the last few years in VA?

    1. Salvatore Culosi, the optometrist SWATted and killed after entrapment into placing an illegal gambling bet.

    2. The young fella who shot and killed the cop breaking into his home during a drug raid a few years ago, thinking it was crooks. He lost ten years of his life in prison for that drug raid.

    3. This Hampton senior.

    Any more?

    And Supervisor McKay of the Fairfax County Board of Supervisors is all bent out of shape about BB guns that might break a window?
    Last edited by Citizen; 06-21-2011 at 10:50 PM.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Workman View Post
    I think we ought to wait and see what all shakes out of this before getting out the nooses and torches.
    Bingo. But some folks just have to jerk their knees. If it plays out that the officers announced themselves as police before entering, then the man shooting first at the cops predictably resulted in returned fire.

    The matter should be resolved by an investigation and/or a hearing by officials outside the department.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    What is there to shake out? An old timer who walked with a cane was tried, convicted, and sentenced to Death by SWAT in the execution of a no knock warrant.

    For pills.
    No, for shooting at the officers, they defended themselves against the man. What has to shake out is, "Was the warrant justified?" and "Did the police execute it properly and lawfully?"

  19. #19
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    No. The old Timer died defending himself against someone smashing down his door while he was asleep.

    There were a million ways for law enforcement to go about serving their warrant. They picked the one that would ensure the most damage to life and property. Both theirs and the old timer's. The guy walked with a cane and was almost 70. So they knocked on a no knock warrant and then bashed his door in. WHat, after waiting a few seconds? ****. They could have just called the guy and told him to turn himself in.

    Or, I guess if they gave him a half hour to answer the door it would be a different story.
    Last edited by HandyHamlet; 06-21-2011 at 11:53 PM.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

  20. #20
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    Whatever.

    At least I am demonstrating an open mind that will come down on either side of the issue depending on how the facts play out. At least I am not jerking my knee.

    Moving on.

  21. #21
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Man, someone is more cranky that normal.

    Why couldn't they have just called the guy?


    And you most assuredly are jerking something. Knee or not.
    Last edited by HandyHamlet; 06-21-2011 at 11:58 PM.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

  22. #22
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    well,,,,

    their was absolutely no reason to serve the warrant at his hideout of a house!
    the confidential informant, that was really a hired and paid for, lying deceitful criminal,
    had told the cops he would be in the bar every night!!!
    Cops can just walk in and gently take him into custody.
    no muss, no fuss, no fancy clothes.
    and no risk to cops or old men.
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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    It is very much a question of how it was handled. Local sheriff said he could have picked up David Koresh in town with no fuss. The ATF wanted to show off thier stuff, how did that work out?

    One can argue that they were defending themselvs, but who created the situation where the man felt the need to be shooting at invaders in the first place? A 69 year old man? How big a threat woudl he have been in town, and isn't it reasonable to have done a bit more basic police footwork adn put a case together, rather than go busting in with a warrant to search for pills? it really sounds like they didn't do their homework and were substituting brawn for brains, and a man died as a result.

    And the cops will get off, and the judges will issue yet another ill concieved warrant to cover an ill concieved raid and someone else will die... to what end, the creation of a standing army caled police who can ignore our rights, freedom and lives at will?

  24. #24
    Regular Member LibertyDeath's Avatar
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    Just because he is a 69 year old man with a cane does not mean he is harmless.

    Who is to say that he wouldn't have shot at the police no matter where he was, potentially risking lives of uninvolved citizens.

  25. #25
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Shoulda, coulda, woulda.

    Doesn't change the fact that they killed him looking for pills.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

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