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Thread: Cc by schools

  1. #1
    Regular Member jeff niles's Avatar
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    Cool Cc by schools

    Do we still have to stay 1000 feet from schools with a permit?

  2. #2
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    No.

    Happy days are here again, The skies above are clear again...

    Now for Constitutional Carry.
    Last edited by HandyHamlet; 06-21-2011 at 10:24 PM.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
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    Alexcabbie

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    Regular Member xenophon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeff niles View Post
    Do we still have to stay 1000 feet from schools with a permit?
    Negative. Permit holders can be in the school zone. Just not ON SCHOOL GROUNDS or IN THE SCHOOL BUILDING.

    bye bye school zone 1000ft rule for permit holders. thank goodness.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Plankton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by logables View Post
    There will be no constitutional carry as long as Governor Walker is in office. My opinion.
    Off topic.
    Liberty or death. We're sorry, there are no other options available at this time..........
    "Safety is the new Liberty, and recklessness is the new Freedom, and alcoholism is the new Doug Huffman."

  5. #5
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    I'm looking forward to being able to choose to conceal or openly carry.

    Quote Originally Posted by logables View Post
    There will be no constitutional carry as long as Governor Walker is in office. My opinion.
    Gee, thanks for your opinion Spartacus.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

  6. #6
    Regular Member cleveland's Avatar
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    On topic:

    Does the sidewalk count as school property?

  7. #7
    Regular Member Lurchiron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    I'm looking forward to being able to choose to conceal or openly carry.


    Gee, thanks for your opinion Spartacus.
    I'd say low blow...but since Spitandcuss never had a pair; no blood, no foul...Carry On
    Bale da Hay

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    (Fully warily let him watch,)
    Full long let him look about him;
    For little he knows where a foe may lurk,
    And sit in the seats within.

    Havamal (Bellows translation)

  8. #8
    Regular Member wild boar's Avatar
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    I sure won't miss all the cased, uncased. Just get in and go!
    The purpose of fighting is to win,
    there is no victory in defense.
    The sword is more important than the shield,
    and skill is more important than either.
    The final weapon is the brain,
    all else is supplemental.

  9. #9
    Regular Member xenophon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wild boar View Post
    I sure won't miss all the cased, uncased. Just get in and go!
    I'm with you on that one. won't miss that bs one bit.

  10. #10
    Regular Member jpm84092's Avatar
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    Gentlemen, the fight is not over.

    SB93 as amended, may have passed both the Assembly and Senate and will likely be signed by Governor Walker, but our struggle is not over.

    We need WI law to mirror UT law and allow those who opt for a permit to carry not only on the grounds that are outside the legal boundary (property lines) of a school, but also within those grounds (just like UT).

    We also need a "Constitutional Carry" provision that makes it clear that the permit is optional for those worried about the Federal GFSZ and for interstate reciprocity.

    OK, so part of me is a 2nd Amendment Constitutional advocate, the other part of me does not think that background checks, if limited to criminal behavior in the past, are such a bad idea. In my humble opinion, persons such as those convicted of going armed with a firearm while intoxicated, or who have committed a violent offense that involved a firearm, should not be granted a permit willy nilly. And, likewise, should not qualify for Constitutional Carry unless circumstances and facts are submitted that strongly suggest that any tendency toward misbehavior with a firearm has been corrected.

    Carry on..
    My cats support the Second Amendment. NRA Life Member, NRA Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, & Personal Protection - NRA Certified Range Safety Officer, Utah BCI Certified Concealed Firearm Permit Instructor.
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  11. #11
    Regular Member Motofixxer's Avatar
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    Does the word "felon or domestic violence" appear in the 2nd amendment? I don't recall seeing it there. Is a felon's life worth any less than another? Didn't they serve their sentence, suffer their punishment, and pay their debt to society? Do you want to be prejudged on your past? Are you the exact same person you were 1, 5, or 10 yrs ago? Don't we have Statutes prohibiting acts of violence with weapons? Just some questions to ponder?
    Last edited by Motofixxer; 06-22-2011 at 12:58 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by xenophon View Post
    bye bye school zone 1000ft rule for permit holders. thank goodness.

    This is only partly true. Permit holders are still subject to the FEDERAL Gun Free School Zones Act of 1995 when they travel outside of the State that physically issued their permit. Also, there is never an exception in the federal law for discharging a firearm in a school zone under any circumstances. If you ever discharge your firearm within 1000 feet of a school (even in Wisconsin) for any reason, you are subject to federal felony prosecution.

    Read this official letter from BATFE written to a permit holder telling him he is subject to prosecution under the federal law, even though he is in full compliance with state law.
    www.handgunlaw.us/documents/batf_school_zone.pdf
    Last edited by Eagle2009; 06-22-2011 at 05:00 AM.

  13. #13
    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle2009 View Post
    This is only partly true. Permit holders are still subject to the FEDERAL Gun Free School Zones Act of 1995 when they travel outside of the State that physically issued their permit. Also, there is never an exception in the federal law for discharging a firearm in a school zone under any circumstances. If you ever discharge your firearm within 1000 feet of a school (even in Wisconsin) for any reason, you are subject to federal felony prosecution.

    Read this official letter from BATFE written to a permit holder telling him he is subject to prosecution under the federal law, even though he is in full compliance with state law.
    www.handgunlaw.us/documents/batf_school_zone.pdf
    The state may grant you a license or "license" without physically giving you a piece of paper or plastic. Law grant people license to do all sorts of things that are otherwise illegal. WI has done this with the recognized out of state permits with the condition of the background check, which is complaint with the new GFSZ act.

  14. #14
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motofixxer View Post
    Does the word "felon or domestic violence" appear in the 2nd amendment? I don't recall seeing it there. Is a felon's life worth any less than another? Didn't they serve their sentence, suffer their punishment, and pay their debt to society? Do you want to be prejudged on your past? Are you the exact same person you were 1, 5, or 10 yrs ago? Don't we have Statutes prohibiting acts of violence with weapons? Just some questions to ponder?
    I'm still on the fence for this. Violent felons should face capital punishment, but I do agree, non-violent felons (pretty much anything is a felony now ) should have their rights reestablished.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

  15. #15
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle2009 View Post
    Also, there is never an exception in the federal law for discharging a firearm in a school zone under any circumstances. If you ever discharge your firearm within 1000 feet of a school (even in Wisconsin) for any reason, you are subject to federal felony prosecution.
    There most certainly are several exceptions....

    (A) Except as provided in subparagraph (B), it shall be unlawful for any person, knowingly or with reckless disregard for the safety of another, to discharge or attempt to discharge a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the person knows is a school zone.
    (B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the discharge of a firearm—
    (i) on private property not part of school grounds;
    (ii) as part of a program approved by a school in the school zone, by an individual who is participating in the program;
    (iii) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in a school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual; or
    Last edited by Interceptor_Knight; 06-22-2011 at 08:59 AM.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lockman View Post
    The state may grant you a license or "license" without physically giving you a piece of paper or plastic. Law grant people license to do all sorts of things that are otherwise illegal. WI has done this with the recognized out of state permits with the condition of the background check, which is complaint with the new GFSZ act.
    It is not compliant with the Federal GFSZ unless WI does the background checks. It is irrelevant and academic though because no WI prosecutor is going to charge anyone.
    B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a
    firearm -
    (i) on private property not part of school grounds;
    (ii) ........the law enforcement authorities of the State or
    political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified
    under law to receive the license;
    Last edited by Interceptor_Knight; 06-22-2011 at 08:54 AM.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cleveland View Post
    On topic:

    Does the sidewalk count as school property?
    The language prohibits possession on school "grounds". Technically, the sidewalk is part of the street (public right-of-way). I would not be surprised if someone would receive a citation and be forced to fight it though.

  18. #18
    Regular Member cleveland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interceptor_Knight View Post
    The language prohibits possession on school "grounds". Technically, the sidewalk is part of the street (public right-of-way). I would not be surprised if someone would receive a citation and be forced to fight it though.
    Thanks for the feedback. I think it may be wise to come up with cases that the sidewalk played a part in, or other ways it has been defined as public. I am guessing there would be something in tax law about it.

  19. #19
    McX
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    i could use a Paul on this one; So if i read it right. on the permit, in the school zone, but not on school property. i can pull to defend, but if i ring one, it's a fed. fight for me, in that magic 1000 feet.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cleveland View Post
    Thanks for the feedback. I think it may be wise to come up with cases that the sidewalk played a part in, or other ways it has been defined as public. I am guessing there would be something in tax law about it.
    It has nothing to do with tax law. You may hold a deed to the land to the center of the street, but there is an easement for the road which includes the sidewalk. You can not obstruct the sidewalk in front of your home yet you are responsible for snow removal.
    CHAPTER 66
    GENERAL MUNICIPALITY LAW
    SUBCHAPTER IX PUBLIC WORKS AND PROJECTS
    66.0907 Sidewalks. (1) PART OF STREET; OBSTRUCTIONS.
    Streets shall provide a right−of−way for vehicular traffic and,
    where the council requires, a sidewalk on either or both sides of
    the street. The sidewalk shall be for the use of persons on foot, and
    no person may encumber the sidewalk with boxes or other material. The sidewalk shall be kept clear for the use of persons on foot

  21. #21
    Regular Member cleveland's Avatar
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    I would think the sidewalk is fine then.

  22. #22
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cleveland View Post
    I would think the sidewalk is fine then.
    If in doubt, walk on the side of the road instead of on the sidewalk until past the school.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lockman View Post
    The state may grant you a license or "license" without physically giving you a piece of paper or plastic. Law grant people license to do all sorts of things that are otherwise illegal. WI has done this with the recognized out of state permits with the condition of the background check, which is complaint with the new GFSZ act.

    The definition of "licensed" is irrelevant, because the Federal Law has three separate requirements that must be met before the permit exception applies.

    1. Licensed by the state in which the school is in

    2. The law of the state requires that before an individual obtains a "license" that the state's law enforcement authorities verify the INDIVIDUAL is qualified to receive the license.

    3. The law enforcement authorities actually verified the individual is qualified to receive the license. (Otherwise the license would have been issued contrary to law, and would not be valid)


    Reciprocity agreements do not satisfy requirements two and three, and are not valid for Federal Gun Free School Zones Act purposes.

    Discharging a firearm within 1000 feet of a school's property is never legal under any circumstances, even in the state which physically issued the permit.

    Permit holders are still subject to the FEDERAL Gun Free School Zones Act of 1995 when they travel outside of the State that physically issued their permit. Also, there is never an exception in the federal law for discharging a firearm in a school zone under any circumstances. If you ever discharge your firearm within 1000 feet of a school (even in Wisconsin) for any reason, you are subject to federal felony prosecution.

    Read this official letter from BATFE written to a permit holder telling him he is subject to prosecution under the federal law, even though he is in full compliance with state law.


    www.handgunlaw.us/documents/batf_school_zone.pdf
    Last edited by Eagle2009; 06-22-2011 at 12:50 PM.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle2009 View Post
    Permit holders are still subject to the FEDERAL Gun Free School Zones Act of 1995 when they travel outside of the State that physically issued their permit. Also, there is never an exception in the federal law for discharging a firearm in a school zone under any circumstances. If you ever discharge your firearm within 1000 feet of a school (even in Wisconsin) for any reason, you are subject to federal felony prosecution.
    You need to read the post I made on the 1st page which quoted the Federal GFSZ text. There ARE exceptions which allow you to discharge within the 1000' GFSZ in WI or any other State according to Federal law.
    Last edited by Interceptor_Knight; 06-22-2011 at 01:21 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Interceptor_Knight View Post
    You need to read the post I made on the 1st page which quoted the Federal GFSZ text. There ARE exceptions which allow you to discharge within the 1000' GFSZ in WI or any other State according to Federal law.
    Yes, there are exceptions if you're:

    1. On private property

    2. (A security guard contracted with the school)

    3. A law-enforcement officer discharging the firearm in your official capacity.


    If you're a normal permit holder, or even an off-duty police officer, on public property (sidewalks, roads, highways, etc) there is no exception in the federal law for discharge under any circumstances.
    Last edited by Eagle2009; 06-23-2011 at 04:17 AM.

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