techmanchuck
Regular Member
I just got my permit in the mail today. I haven't yet OCed. I know the laws mostly good just wondering if anyone had tips if i am approached by the cops. I live in Lucedale but i go to the coast and AL often.
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New permit. looking for carry tips
- Thread starter techmanchuck
- Start date
DCKilla
Regular Member
Don't talk to the police. Know the law and remember you can always file a complaint. Be respectful and firm when talking with LEOs. If you feel unconfortable ask if you are being detained. If the answer is "no," walk away. I would recomend that you carry a good voice recorder.
10-79
Regular Member
...In the pocket opposite your firearm, of course
DCKilla
Regular Member
+1, short and to the point.
MSRebel54
Regular Member
{This is written as a "what if" scenario. I am in no way encouraging people to get themselves arrested on purpose...just in case that wasn't clear to begin with}
Actually, DO get arrested. I'd like to know what they are going to arrest you FOR? There has never been a case that I can find, and I've searched meticulously, for someone being arrested for carrying in a holster on their side with a firearms permit. I'd hate to be the officer who arrested you for NOT breaking the law. First time test case. He don't want that on his record. There is actually NOTHING they can arrest you for, you're not breaking the law.
Now I agree with everyone else who says KNOW the law, and know it well. Read 97-37-1 and 45-9-101 until you dream about it. You can't deal with the uniform and the badge, unless you know from whence you come. And I'm not saying get an attitude with them, just know the law and your rights.
I OC around my neighborhood, but have been CC'ing when I go downtown. I have made myself a PROMISE that I will OC everywhere I go in the month of July, as a precursor to this thing we're planning in August. (See North MS get together) forum. As such, I am prepared to meet the boys in blue. There is absolutely nothing they can do (legally) because I have a pistol on my side in plain view. They can't arrest me for anything, because I'm not breaking the law. They may not LIKE it, they may hum haw around and get on the radio and all sorts of stuff, but in the end you will say "have a nice day, officer". He can't arrest you for a damn thing. And don't let him "trick" you with weasel words. That's why I say know the law until you dream about it. Do NOT let him steer the conversation off to anything other than you having a side arm in plain view. Do NOT let him do that. That's where he might bite you if you let that happen.
Anyway, if I have any encounters with the local boys in blue, I'll be posting. But I'm 100% confident they will not do a thing, other than detain me for 5 minutes and go on about their business.
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Such sentiments have led to two arrests and CONVICTIONS in Alabama. Yes, its not MS, but OC has a long history of support in the courts over here. Police can arrest for anything right or wrong and many times the municipal judges will protect the city and police, from civil claims, by issuing a guilty verdict. Arrests can have serious consequences especially when they are on a persons record for life.
Arrests and any civil court actions bring negative attention to OC, this is not good. It stirs up police organizations and opposition to OC. MS barely has OC as it is, we need to secure it in the legislature first if at all possible; followed by court challenges to the law at the MS supreme court if needed and if we know it will go in our favor.
Don't fight a battle unless you know you will win. For if you can't win you are not ready for the battle.
Edit for clarity: I'm not suggesting anyone not OC, for it is a right and I'd hate to discourage its exercise. I am simply advocating the exercise of prudence and for thought in not getting arrested. That could mean not actively going out of ones way to confront LEOs, not arguing with them, covering up at a LEOs request or even firmly reminding an officer of ones rights and possibly the law. Determining what actions will keep an arrest from happening is of course up to each person in a situation.
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georg jetson
Regular Member
Yes, muni courts CAN attempt to "protect" the municipality that pays it, which is why the appeal process must be followed through.
Part of the preparation for battle is have you appeal ready to file before your initial case is disposed... AND of course make sure that you and your attorney are making the proper challenges in the initial case so that you can perfect your appeal. Some challenges CANNOT be brought up FIRST on appeal.
One last thing, in most states, appeals from muni courts are usually de nova. You'll have a better chance of success at that level so... be ready to sustain the fight.
this can easily run up a 10k tab in lawyer + court fees.
georg jetson
Regular Member
Typically, the court fees are insignificant compared to attorney fees. In addition, most courts allow a defendant to appeal "in forma pauperis".
There are ways of mitigating attorney costs. These should be discussed. It's all part of being ready for the fight.
It's still a fight that need not happen. I believe there will be an election this year. Helping representatives that will protect the MS constitution is far safer and far more likely to yield good results than picking a legal fight in a criminal court.
Edit: and I'm not sure about you but 10k or even 5k in lawyers fees for a potentially unnecessary court case is not desirable.
Edit: and I'm not sure about you but 10k or even 5k in lawyers fees for a potentially unnecessary court case is not desirable.
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MSRebel54
Regular Member
Daylen, there will never be a court case, there never has been one. Do you actually think they want to change the words, "in whole or in part"? Here's a reply from one of my representatives:
"Thanks, Dennis. I hope to continue to push this bill and will look at the recommendation you have made on getting rid of "in whole or in part" as well, should my bid for re-election be successful.
Mark"
That's the kind of thing I'm talking about! Until now, we've never had a forum like this, we have an untold opportunity to come together like never before. We can actually get this thing done. And I'm not saying it's going to happen overnight, but we've got to work together for the common goal. I've never been on a forum where so many people are respectful of one another, and are all in it for the means to the same ends. I am really amazed at how nice everyone is to one another.
As you can see from above, I'm trying to get the legislators to realize the stupidness of "in whole or in part". I'm probably not going to have a great deal of luck, unless ya'll get with me.
Every year someone introduces a Constitutional carry bill, but it never passes. But that is totally rewriting 97-37-1, and I don't think that's the way to go. I need to get a sponsor that will remove those five little words "in whole or in part", and then we will have done what we set out to do. In the meantime, if you have a MS firearms permit, you can CC or OC, no matter where you are in MS. If they have a brain in their head they know this to be true. If you have a firearms permit, and are OCin'g they cannot arrest you for anything. However, if the officer asks you to cover it up, I would, just not to be confrontational. You can always go down the street and uncover it, and start the whole process over again. They CAN NOT arrest you for open carry if you have a firearms permit. It's stupid, but that's the way it is, until we get it changed.
I'm thinking the thing in Oxford will be a major deal, and will draw attention to the fact that people CAN legally carry a side arm openly in Mississippi. This will only give us cannon fodder to harp on our representatives about removing "in whole or in part" from 97-37-1 We are just now at the beginning, but with your help, and all the people on this forum, I have a feeling we can do some good. And we may even meet our goal.
Hope to see you in August, Daylen,
Dennis
georg jetson
Regular Member
Add the word "intentionally" and you've got yourself a respectable statute...
Except as otherwise provided in Section 45-9-101, any person who INTENTIONALLY carries, wholly concealed, ...
MSRebel54
Regular Member
That part really doesn't matter, but I think everyone knows the meaning of the word "concealed". It means hidden from view, not visible. In fact, you can't actually "conceal" something "in part", or it wouldn't be concealed, now would it? To remove those words, then 97-37-1 would read like this:
(1) Except as otherwise provided in Section 45-9-101, any person who carries, concealed , any bowie knife, dirk knife, butcher knife, switchblade knife, metallic knuckles, blackjack, slingshot, pistol, revolver, or any rifle with a barrel of less than sixteen (16) inches in length.....blah blah yak yak.
Now we could argue about the definition of "concealed", but 49 other states seem to know what it means. And I'm not sure about throwing "intentionally" in there either. I mean how do you UNINTENTIONALLY conceal a pistol or revolver on your person? We could leave the words "in whole" but I don't think it's necessary. Concealed is concealed.
georg jetson
Regular Member
I've explained this before. It would make it necessary for the prosecution to PROVE that you INTENDED to conceal.
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Um, it seem in MS the word concealed is hard to understand. Evidence: the words "or in part" are in the law in the first place!
MSRebel54
Regular Member
Yes, but WHY? Concealed is still concealed. It is/was a weasel worded way to get around Article 3 Section 12 of the MS Constitution. And it's pretty much worked so far. At least until 45-9-101 came along and sorta threw a monkey wrench into it kinda. Concealed is really not that difficult a concept, either the practical meaning or the legal meaning, which SHOULD be one and the same. As Jetson pointed out, those words not technical in nature under the law fall to the practical meaning, and "concealed" is certainly not legalese. I mean I'm no one to decide, I just don't think it's necessary to have a paragraph for every word that's in the paragraph.
At SOME point the adults are going to have to come out of the wood work and start invoking common sense. I realize that's asking a lot these days, because we are all taught exactly the opposite. But it's getting to the point that even those going along with the government program are getting perturbed. It's getting about time we call a spade a spade.
MSRebel54
Regular Member
Really, I'm not trying to be a smart ant here, but how do you accidentally conceal a firearm on your person? If you are in your vehicle it doesn't matter, if you are in your home, on your property, or your business, it doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is concealed on your person while not on your own property or in your vehicle. The way I see it, is that you can't conceal without intending to? (Yes question mark.) Unless you're talking about this "in whole or in part" crap, which I've dismissed as actually not being "concealed" long ago. To conceal something "in part" is not really concealing it. Now don't go jumping on me about the law, because I'm very familiar with it, I just meant from a common sense point of view. That's what we're trying to get changed, so the law makes more common sense.
georg jetson
Regular Member
It AINT about whether or not you can conceal WITHOUT intending to do so, it's about making it HARDER for the prosecutor to prosecute such a crime. Remember, the "reason" that society doesn't want people to conceal their weapons is because of the propensity for criminals to want to hide their intentions. we don't want to be prosecuted because our shirt became un-tucked and accidentally covered our sidearm. However, a convicted felon with the handle of a handgun sticking out of his pocket can be shown to have an INTENTION to conceal because he's not supposed to be possessing a firearm in the first place.
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