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Thread: OC at protests/marches, etc

  1. #1
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    OC at protests/marches, etc

    can anyone point to specifics about OC at protests, marches, etc... from what i am reading it seems OC would be legal at any 'picket line' or 'demonstration' as long as its not 'upon' any private healthcare facility or upon any public property.

    mainly what im looking for information on is if its legal to carry at say a 'tea party' type event, as long as you are not on public property or a private healthcare facility. and what exactly constitutes a demonstration or picket line? i've read of a few 'open carry meets' where people walked public streets and handed out flyers. i've also read of the OC rally on NPS land last year. i guess the loop hole is that they were on national park property, not state owned property.

    if i were to hold a sign or flag on a public street, marching or standing still, while open carrying, would i be arrested? would marching down a public street be considered a parade/demonstration and could i be arrested if OC'ing?

    lastly, has anyone done anything similar to this and had any legal problems?

    law is below:

    Events Occurring in Public: It shall be unlawful for any person participating in, affiliated with, or present as a spectator at any parade, funeral procession, picket line, or demonstration upon any private health care facility or upon any public place owned or under the control of the State or any of its political subdivisions to willfully or intentionally possess or have immediate access to any dangerous weapon. §14-277.2

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    no comments/opinions??

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    I don't understand why people seem to have such difficulty understanding §14-277.2. Apparently they don't teach sentence diagramming or basic grammar and syntax anymore in schools in NC.

    So I'll break it down phrase by phrase for y'all...

    NCGS §14-277.2
    Events Occurring in Public: It shall be unlawful for any person participating in, affiliated with, or present as a spectator at any parade, funeral procession, picket line, or demonstration upon any private health care facility or upon any public place owned or under the control of the State or any of its political subdivisions to willfully or intentionally possess or have immediate access to any dangerous weapon.
    Events Occurring in Public: It shall be unlawful (it is illegal, under NC law)

    for any person participating in, affiliated with, or present as a spectator at (if you are watching, marching in, riding in, or otherwise participating in)

    any parade, funeral procession, picket line, or (pretty self-explanatory--I think everyone here knows what those things are...)

    demonstration upon any private health care facility (meaning you can't carry at a demonstration against a women's health care clinic, primarily, but could be used against ANY sort of private medical facility...)

    or upon any public place owned or under the control of the State or any of its political subdivisions (you can't carry at a demonstration that takes place on the property of the government if it is specifically against the political body that owns the property. For instance, you can't be armed at a protest against the City Council's policies if the protest occurs on the property of the City Building)

    to willfully or intentionally possess or have immediate access to any dangerous weapon. (Meaning you can't have it on your person, or in your vehicle and readily accessible if you are also in your vehicle...)


    Hopefully this clears it up. NCGS §14-277.2 is a long, complex, convoluted statute, and the language is awkward at best, but with a little sentence diagramming skill, it makes sense if you break it up into its operant phrases.

    However, this law DOESN'T make sense within the context of the NC or US Constitution, and is a direct violation of the 1A, 2A ad potentially the 4A if some LEO should want to search your vehicle because they are trying to find firearms at a "prohibited event".

    NCGS §14-277.2 should be repealed. Period.
    Last edited by Dreamer; 09-07-2011 at 08:42 PM.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    i got an invite to this

    http://nc5thdistrictteaparty.com/

    ther is also a law in NC against carry on collage campuses. i have been in contact with several of the organizers which say they sympathize. but i don't think they even thought of it.
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
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    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Not sure if this will clarify anything or make it worse. Dreamer, you mentioned in your vehicle. The problem with that is this, see caps.

    (f) Nothing contained in this section prohibits municipalities or counties from application of their authority under G.S. 153A‑129, 160A‑189, 14‑269, 14‑269.2, 14‑269.3, 14‑269.4, 14‑277.2, 14‑415.11, 14‑415.23, including prohibiting the possession of firearms in public‑owned buildings, on the grounds or parking areas of those buildings, or in public parks or recreation areas, EXCEPT NOTHING IN THIS SUBSECTION SHALL PROHIBIT A PERSON FROM STORING A FIREARM WITHIN A MOTOR VEHICLE WHILE THE VEHICLE IS ON THESE GROUNDS OR AREAS. Nothing contained in this section prohibits municipalities or counties from exercising powers provided by law in declared states of emergency under Article 36A of this Chapter.

    http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedL...14-409.40.html

    Cities and counties have zero authority over a firearm in your car. The only exception I can think of is educational property. And the above statute is specifically mentioned, so the motor vehicle exemption applies to it. This little tidbit is looked over by a lot of folks.

    IANAL, research yourself, bla bla

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefjason View Post
    Cities and counties have zero authority over a firearm in your car. The only exception I can think of is educational property. And the above statute is specifically mentioned, so the motor vehicle exemption applies to it. This little tidbit is looked over by a lot of folks.

    Yeah, I didn't mean in your car in a parking lot--I meant to say in your car if you were in a parade, funeral procession, or something like that.

    This whole Statute needs to be struck from the books. It is a monumental Cluster Foxtrot, and is so awkwardly worded that it causes more problems than it fixes...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Aaaah, makes sense that way. I was trying to figure out how you protest from your car. Forgot about the parade stuff. Yeah, what a mess.

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    Dreamer
    thanks for the commentary.
    im interested in your answers to my questions in the first post. i understand your dissection of the statute, but the reason i am posting this is because of conflicting info i've been hearing on this statute and how it is interpreted by various people, to include LEO's.

    are you saying after dissecting the totality of the law open carry at any rally is illegal or legal?
    i've heard from one LEO that any firearms at any rally is illegal, and i've heard from another LEO in a different county that open carry at a rally is legal. and if in fact most interpret any carry at a demonstration or even a guy holding a sign on a street corner to be illegal, how did the open carry rally in greensboro a year or two ago even happen?

    im also very curious as to the legal definition of 'demonstration or picket line.' as in if only myself were to carry a sign and open carry would this be considered a 'demonstration.'

    thanks in advance
    Last edited by brutus1776; 09-09-2011 at 08:50 PM.

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    First, you need to be sure for yourself. If you find yourself on the wrong side of the law, it will not matter what anyone else has said.

    I think the event in Greensboro took full advantage of the new carry laws for national parks. It just bypassed the state law, since it was on Federal property.

    My thought has always been that a demonstration that is contained on private property, non health care property, would also be unaffected by this law. But anything on public property falls under this law.

    I could also be completely wrong. And even if I'm right, that does not mean a LEO would agree with me. Sometimes you can beat the rap but can't beat the ride. Then the courts work it out.

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    the reason im asking is because i was told by one of 8 LEO's for a certain jurisdiction that it was in fact legal for me to open carry at a festival that is in reality a 'parade.' (literally a parade down public main street) while i realize you are correct that even police legal opinions dont mean squat, this is basically the stance of the department. whereas the law seems to me says protests on public property including a sidewalk to be 'illegal' by statute.

    thanks guys, just trying to get a conversation going on this. seems to me if people are talking about OC'ing into police stations marked 'no concealed weapons' or OC'ing into a financial institution on this board...that the wording of these laws is very critical to interpretation and enforcement.

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