• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

SD Shooting caught on tape.

JoeSparky

Centurion
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,621
Location
Pleasant Grove, Utah, USA
Just love the media and the police... "Appears to be a case of self-defense!"

And never once did I hear them say that the victim (the permit holder) ALLEGEDLY did anything.
 

Wolf1477

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2011
Messages
188
Location
Up Nort' Wi
See, now that's what I was wondering. To me, it almost looked like he was trying to retreat into the car and couldn't...but, it also looks like he may have gone into it to retrieve his pistol. Hard to say myself, I was hoping someone else would notice that.
 

MKEgal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
Location
in front of my computer, WI
Good SD,
good cop,
good video,
and yeah, I betcha he carries from now on.

Finally, a news story that doesn't mislabel the attacker who got shot as the "victim",
& doesn't use emotionally-charged terms like "gunman" for the citizen defender.

PS: I'm a bit suprised that the 2nd attacker came back, & very suprised that the one who got shot admitted being on illegal drugs & "up to no good".
 
Last edited:

Yaki

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2011
Messages
94
Location
Salinas, California
Good SD,
good cop,
good video,
and yeah, I betcha he carries from now on.

Finally, a news story that doesn't mislabel the attacker who got shot as the "victim",
& doesn't use emotionally-charged terms like "gunman" for the citizen defender.

PS: I'm a bit suprised that the 2nd attacker came back, & very suprised that the one who got shot admitted being on illegal drugs & "up to no good".

Honest crackheads :uhoh:
 

dmatting

Regular Member
Joined
May 25, 2011
Messages
445
Location
Durham, NC
Have you ever watched COPS? I like to watch that show to see what NOT to do and also the tactics that the police use to try to get you to give up your rights.

Most times that I have watched that show, they will read someone their rights and then ask them if they understand those rights. Immediately after that they ask questions and the person under arrest starts blabbing their head off and admitting anything and everything. It is absolutely amazing how no one ever asserts their rights and just shuts up!

Actually I did watch one episode where some guy told the officer that he did not consent to a search of his vehicle. It didn't really matter though because he had a pot plant sitting in the bed of his truck in open view so they had all the PC they needed. But most other times the officers ask if they mind if they look in the car and they say no - and then they find drugs! Such idiots!
 

Wolf1477

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2011
Messages
188
Location
Up Nort' Wi
The victim (look ma, no quotes!) is a member of the Ohioans For Concealed Carry forum and has posted his experience over there. Thought I'd provide a link for further details.

To the shooter, ya done good, and make sure to cover your butt, I'd hate to see the next story out of Dayton be a retribution kill.

http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=53502
 
Last edited:

protias

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2008
Messages
7,308
Location
SE, WI
Have you ever watched COPS? I like to watch that show to see what NOT to do and also the tactics that the police use to try to get you to give up your rights.

Most times that I have watched that show, they will read someone their rights and then ask them if they understand those rights. Immediately after that they ask questions and the person under arrest starts blabbing their head off and admitting anything and everything. It is absolutely amazing how no one ever asserts their rights and just shuts up!

Actually I did watch one episode where some guy told the officer that he did not consent to a search of his vehicle. It didn't really matter though because he had a pot plant sitting in the bed of his truck in open view so they had all the PC they needed. But most other times the officers ask if they mind if they look in the car and they say no - and then they find drugs! Such idiots!

Police always have "probably cause." It is how they articulate that "probable cause" to get a warrant.
 

j4l

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2011
Messages
1,835
Location
fl
Good work indeed.
2 solid doses of John Browning's finest, right where it matters.
And another check in the "proper" fight-stopping round box. ;)
 

Packer fan

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2009
Messages
399
Location
Mountain Home, Arkansas, United States
I have a question and I'm not here to start a fight but where was the tactical advantage in CC in this situation?

I know I am on an OC sight.

Here is the things that I know will come up
The victim did not have gun on him in the store: But if he had been CC how would that have changed if he didn't pull his firearm until was attacked.

The victim had the element of surprise: But why should he have needed to surprise the perps? Would they have chosen to attack the victim if he was OC. I understand that they may have attacked because they were on drugs but they may not have if they would have seen the gun in the store. To me the element of surprise is a dumb reason because you are already in a conflict, such as this man, before you are able to draw. I know you can yell stop I have a gun, which I believe the victim did but would he needed to yell that if he was OC?

The basic question is at what point does CC ever become a tactical advantage?

Can you give me real world situations where an attack has been avoided because of CC?

Not to get in to an argument but just earnestly wanting to know.
 

ArmedOkie

New member
Joined
Jul 17, 2011
Messages
6
Location
Guthrie, OK
I have a question and I'm not here to start a fight but where was the tactical advantage in CC in this situation?

I know I am on an OC sight.

Here is the things that I know will come up
The victim did not have gun on him in the store: But if he had been CC how would that have changed if he didn't pull his firearm until was attacked.

The victim had the element of surprise: But why should he have needed to surprise the perps? Would they have chosen to attack the victim if he was OC. I understand that they may have attacked because they were on drugs but they may not have if they would have seen the gun in the store. To me the element of surprise is a dumb reason because you are already in a conflict, such as this man, before you are able to draw. I know you can yell stop I have a gun, which I believe the victim did but would he needed to yell that if he was OC?

The basic question is at what point does CC ever become a tactical advantage?

Can you give me real world situations where an attack has been avoided because of CC?

Not to get in to an argument but just earnestly wanting to know.


only time i can see a tactical advantage to cc over oc is in a hostage or "gun-already-pointed-at-you" situation. OC would definitely have deterred these white trash attackers before the fact.
 

frommycolddeadhands

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2008
Messages
448
Location
Knob Noster, MO
I have a question and I'm not here to start a fight but where was the tactical advantage in CC in this situation?

I know I am on an OC sight.

Here is the things that I know will come up
The victim did not have gun on him in the store: But if he had been CC how would that have changed if he didn't pull his firearm until was attacked.

The victim had the element of surprise: But why should he have needed to surprise the perps? Would they have chosen to attack the victim if he was OC. I understand that they may have attacked because they were on drugs but they may not have if they would have seen the gun in the store. To me the element of surprise is a dumb reason because you are already in a conflict, such as this man, before you are able to draw. I know you can yell stop I have a gun, which I believe the victim did but would he needed to yell that if he was OC?

The basic question is at what point does CC ever become a tactical advantage?

Can you give me real world situations where an attack has been avoided because of CC?

Not to get in to an argument but just earnestly wanting to know.

I would have to say that there is a high probability that if he was OC'ing his gun, the crackhead would have waited to pester someone else. (Impossible to say for sure, Crackheads aren't exactly known for their wits and predictability) Also, it looked to me like his gun wasn't concealed on his person, but was inside the car, so it wasn't exactly a CC situation.

As far as tactical advantage of OC vs CC, that discussion has been had many a time. Personally I have a CC permit, and I know a lot of other folks on this forum do too. I'm a definate supporter of OC as a right, but I don't OC all day every day. It depends on where I'm going, what I'm doing, and what is most comforatable for me at the time. (Although I do think OC is much more comforatable in general and there is certainly a deterrent element that does not come with CC)

The only time when I would say CC has a tactical edge is if you know you are going to a place which is crowded (People in a packed space, bumping into one another like a can of sardines). I do get edgy about a possible joker trying to grab my gun from its holster when I'm in those sorts of situations. (I don't own a retention holster). In crowded spaces such as that your situational awareness drops significantly, and it's hard to track who is standing behind you/beside you. The only way to keep track of the gun on your hip is to place a hand on the grip. (Which freaks people out) so I'll usually choose to conceal it in those sorts of situations just for my own piece of mind (usually in a coat pocket where I can non-chalantly keep my hand on it if I need to).
 
Top