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Thread: Question About Knife Carrying & RS

  1. #1
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    Question About Knife Carrying & RS

    I know this is a gun forum, but I read here quite often and know that the members are very knowledgable about Michigan weapon's laws.

    I regularly carry a tactical folding knife (Zero Tolerance 0350ST). One question I have is whether or not a police officer has the right to stop me and check on the knife just by seeing the clip sticking out of my pocket? The knife is just over 3 inches long, which according to Michigan law is illegal I believe for citizens?

    I don't want to stop carrying it, but just want to know what my rights are/how to act if stopped by a LEO and what, if any are his rights for investigating my weapon?

    Thanks,
    Adam

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    Here is the actual law....mcl 750.226

    Carrying firearm or dangerous weapon with unlawful intent—Any person who, with intent to use the same unlawfully against the person of another, goes armed with a pistol or other firearm or dagger, dirk, razor, stiletto, or knife having a blade over 3 inches in length, or any other dangerous or deadly weapon or instrument, shall be guilty of a felony, punishable by imprisonment in the state prison for not more than 5 years or by a fine of not more than 2,500 dollars.
    Apparently you can carry a knife less than 3 inches in length with the intent to use it unlawfully against the person of another and it does not violate the statute......j/k

    I don't know if you have read the sticky "wash, rinse, repeat," but that is a great place to start.

    Reasonable suspicion depends on the totality of circumstances involved. Does the clip on the outside of your pocket itself rise to the level of reasonable suspicion? That would require LEO to articulate his reasonable suspicion that your have been, are, or are about to be engaged in criminal activity.


    Would it be reasonable to think that a person possibly carrying a knife while walking down the sidewalk minding his own business is engaged in some sort of criminal activity?

    It may be wise if stopped, to politely refuse any searches or seizures, but to not resist. If you were charged with something, and had to go to court, not consenting to the search may make your defense attorney's job easier.
    Last edited by lapeer20m; 06-23-2011 at 08:20 PM.
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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Problem is that Michigan has no Knife Preemption and a Local Unit of Government can make whatever regulations/ordinances they want regarding knifes. Based upon that, a clip from a knife sticking out on a pocket could very well become RAS depending upon a Local Unit of Government's regulations/ordinances.

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    trying to work out a link.
    Last edited by Rasher; 06-24-2011 at 01:15 AM.

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    As PD said, could and would be RAS in certain jurisdictions.

    I suggest keeping it concealed unless you know the local laws, and never carrying a knife while OCing a handgun, again, unless you know the local laws.

    Michigan NEEDS knife preemption. I miss carrying my dagger next to my gun. I haven't been able to do so since I left Arizona.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDinDetroit View Post
    Problem is that Michigan has no Knife Preemption and a Local Unit of Government can make whatever regulations/ordinances they want regarding knifes. Based upon that, a clip from a knife sticking out on a pocket could very well become RAS depending upon a Local Unit of Government's regulations/ordinances.
    i agree with this. in the vast majority of suburbs, a folder under 3" is fine, but there are suburbs that do not allow knives at all (centerline).

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    taylor michigans knife law reads- "All weapons, knives, other sharp edged or pointed instruments carried are hereby declared forfeited to the city"

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    OK try again MGO was screwy for me too, let me on spent some time on it, then when I went back to get this link wouldnt let me on, lets see if it works now. Right before my previous post.

    http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USKnife.pdf
    Last edited by Rasher; 06-24-2011 at 09:29 AM.

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    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    I think that 3" to 3.25" blade is screwy. I thought I heard that was picked because that was under the distance to the heart if stabbed.

    It's prob. much less than that in a medium-sized person, particularly if the best angle of entry is used. Most skilled people with a knife will target the kidney, or the clavicle or the carotid/jugular. An under the rib heart shot is hard to acquire, and if you nick the ventricle they still have time. A kidney shot can paralyze sometimes.

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    I just measured my S&W specms knife... three and a pinch more than 1/8".... *gasp!!!!


    I bet some jackoff cop actually WOULD arrest me for that.... There was an ingham county officer in there though that I showed the knife to and asked if he would jam me up for having that.. he replied he would not, then bought one for himself... heh...


    http://www.amazon.com/Smith-Wesson-S.../dp/B001B4PJ3M
    Last edited by HKcarrier; 06-24-2011 at 01:38 PM.

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    Regular Member Centurion's Avatar
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by ElectricianLU58 View Post
    taylor michigans knife law reads- "All weapons, knives, other sharp edged or pointed instruments carried are hereby declared forfeited to the city"
    Please post link or cite to ordinance. It seems as though there must be more to this, like during the commission of a crime, or while in a "park" or some other type of BS.

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Centurion View Post
    Please post link or cite to ordinance. It seems as though there must be more to this, like during the commission of a crime, or while in a "park" or some other type of BS.
    Sec. 32-345. - Confiscation of firearms and replica firearms.

    (a)

    All weapons, guns, pistols, firearms, knives, dirks, razors, stilettos, or any other sharp-edged or pointed instruments or weapons carried, contrary to state law, are hereby declared forfeited to the city.

    (b)

    All replica and imitation firearms, as defined in section 32-358, carried or possessed by any person, contrary to state law are hereby declared forfeited to the city.
    http://library.municode.com/showDocu...32-345COFIREFI

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    ..."weapon with unlawful intent"
    doesn't that make blades over 3 inches legal as long as you don't intend to do harm?
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    Quote Originally Posted by smellslikemichigan View Post
    ..."weapon with unlawful intent"
    doesn't that make blades over 3 inches legal as long as you don't intend to do harm?
    yes
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    Thumbs up Thanks for clarity PD ;)

    Thanks PD I thought the ElectricianLU58 post was a little light on info. The important thing is to note the line which states: carried contrary to state law which would mean Taylor is taking the stance of we follow state law - even if they aren't very clear about it.
    Last edited by Centurion; 06-24-2011 at 11:11 PM. Reason: add poster info

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasher View Post
    OK try again MGO was screwy for me too, let me on spent some time on it, then when I went back to get this link wouldnt let me on, lets see if it works now. Right before my previous post.

    http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USKnife.pdf
    Just what I needed, thank you. Even though this is an open-carry forum this should be a sticky since myself and many other members (I presume) carry knives as EDC. Any chance a moderator can post this up to the top?

    Adam

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adame24 View Post
    Just what I needed, thank you. Even though this is an open-carry forum this should be a sticky since myself and many other members (I presume) carry knives as EDC. Any chance a moderator can post this up to the top?

    Adam
    I carry several myself.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    I think they also equivocate on the method of carry, and some places (cities?) don't want >3" (+/-) carried concealed and you can carry a hunting knife in a sheath on your belt.

    In addition, some LEOs will recognize the intent or lack of and not have a problem. Sometimes these laws are used as 'pile on' charges if you get busted doing a crime. Sometimes innocent things in your car are piled on as B&E tools for the same reasons. If I've just opened some crates and have a crowbar and am found in a driveway where I can't explain my presence, I could get busted for that. I might just be using the driveway (hypothetically) as a place to park and make out with my gf, thinking the house is deserted or something.

    IMO, it places too much discretion into the hands of LEOs as to what is ok or not. When we go shooting at the range we often have stuff in the car, targets, multiple HGs and mags and it might look like we're planning a hostile takeover of the locality, lol. In fact I worry that a LEO might ask to search and find a .45 round (shell) that has found its way into the car because it flew into my pants cuff from someone else's HG and it could be construed I used a .45 in a drive-by shooting (argh). Now, I have to explain where my .45 is (I don't own one, sheesh). (actually we had a whole .40 cal bullet in the range bag the other day and I don't have a HG in that caliber either, so no idea how it got there. Maybe someone dropped it and it bounced in, IDK. )

    They outlaw bali-song knives because someone thought they looked scary, but allow fixed blade, or folders which I can deploy a lot faster than a bali-song, and in fact, I could use the bali-song as a hand load in non-lethal mode, but that is overlooked in the hysteria.

    The truth is, a good FMA could use a 2" blade with lethal effect. It has nothing to do with the blade length, but the politicians try to use their brains and fail to realize that, in reality, they don't really have any (one might argue) so they only mess stuff up with the overly complex laws, which can vary completely as you cross state (or county) lines and not even know it.
    Last edited by Badger Johnson; 06-25-2011 at 02:11 AM.
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  19. #19
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adame24 View Post
    Just what I needed, thank you. Even though this is an open-carry forum this should be a sticky since myself and many other members (I presume) carry knives as EDC. Any chance a moderator can post this up to the top?

    Adam
    Knives are not the primary focus here on OCDO - certainly they are a part of most enthusiast's daily carry, but only in a secondary capacity. We do regularly post/refer to them in that context.

    IMO, their order of importance is well located.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Centurion View Post
    Thanks PD I thought the ElectricianLU58 post was a little light on info. The important thing is to note the line which states: carried contrary to state law which would mean Taylor is taking the stance of we follow state law - even if they aren't very clear about it.
    taylor city ordnance 19-226- All weapons, knives, other sharp edged or pointed instruments carried are hereby declared forfeited to the city

    centerline ordnance 46-266 basically says that no knives are legal for carry in centerline.

    http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USKnife.pdf

  21. #21
    Regular Member Centurion's Avatar
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    Unhappy What the heck?

    Quote Originally Posted by ElectricianLU58 View Post
    taylor city ordnance 19-226- All weapons, knives, other sharp edged or pointed instruments carried are hereby declared forfeited to the city

    centerline ordnance 46-266 basically says that no knives are legal for carry in centerline.

    http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USKnife.pdf
    Hmmm??? Leave it to Taylor? Two conflicting ordinances I guess one would have to contact the prosecutor to figure out what they enforce?

    Sec. 32-345. - Confiscation of firearms and replica firearms.

    (a)

    All weapons, guns, pistols, firearms, knives, dirks, razors, stilettos, or any other sharp-edged or pointed instruments or weapons carried, contrary to state law, are hereby declared forfeited to the city.

    (b)

    All replica and imitation firearms, as defined in section 32-358, carried or possessed by any person, contrary to state law are hereby declared forfeited to the city.
    http://library.municode.com/showDocu...32-345COFIREFI
    Last edited by Centurion; 06-25-2011 at 10:58 AM.

  22. #22
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    i think it is a non issue. unless you are committing a crime, i do not really see carrying a folding knife being an issue.

    i am going to buy this knife for daily carry:

    http://www.benchmade.com/products/557

    it complies with the laws, and it seems pretty nice.

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