Question About Knife Carrying & RS

I know this is a gun forum, but I read here quite often and know that the members are very knowledgable about Michigan weapon's laws.

I regularly carry a tactical folding knife (Zero Tolerance 0350ST). One question I have is whether or not a police officer has the right to stop me and check on the knife just by seeing the clip sticking out of my pocket? The knife is just over 3 inches long, which according to Michigan law is illegal I believe for citizens?

I don't want to stop carrying it, but just want to know what my rights are/how to act if stopped by a LEO and what, if any are his rights for investigating my weapon?

Thanks,
Adam

Here is the actual law....mcl 750.226

Carrying firearm or dangerous weapon with unlawful intent—Any person who, with intent to use the same unlawfully against the person of another, goes armed with a pistol or other firearm or dagger, dirk, razor, stiletto, or knife having a blade over 3 inches in length, or any other dangerous or deadly weapon or instrument, shall be guilty of a felony, punishable by imprisonment in the state prison for not more than 5 years or by a fine of not more than 2,500 dollars.

Click to expand...

Apparently you can carry a knife less than 3 inches in length with the intent to use it unlawfully against the person of another and it does not violate the statute......j/k

I don't know if you have read the sticky "wash, rinse, repeat," but that is a great place to start.

Reasonable suspicion depends on the totality of circumstances involved. Does the clip on the outside of your pocket itself rise to the level of reasonable suspicion? That would require LEO to articulate his reasonable suspicion that your have been, are, or are about to be engaged in criminal activity.


Would it be reasonable to think that a person possibly carrying a knife while walking down the sidewalk minding his own business is engaged in some sort of criminal activity?

It may be wise if stopped, to politely refuse any searches or seizures, but to not resist. If you were charged with something, and had to go to court, not consenting to the search may make your defense attorney's job easier.

Problem is that Michigan has no Knife Preemption and a Local Unit of Government can make whatever regulations/ordinances they want regarding knifes. Based upon that, a clip from a knife sticking out on a pocket could very well become RAS depending upon a Local Unit of Government's regulations/ordinances.

trying to work out a link.

As PD said, could and would be RAS in certain jurisdictions.

I suggest keeping it concealed unless you know the local laws, and never carrying a knife while OCing a handgun, again, unless you know the local laws.

Michigan NEEDS knife preemption. I miss carrying my dagger next to my gun. I haven't been able to do so since I left Arizona.

PDinDetroit said:

Problem is that Michigan has no Knife Preemption and a Local Unit of Government can make whatever regulations/ordinances they want regarding knifes. Based upon that, a clip from a knife sticking out on a pocket could very well become RAS depending upon a Local Unit of Government's regulations/ordinances.

Click to expand...

i agree with this. in the vast majority of suburbs, a folder under 3" is fine, but there are suburbs that do not allow knives at all (centerline).

taylor michigans knife law reads- "All weapons, knives, other sharp edged or pointed instruments carried are hereby declared forfeited to the city"

OK try again MGO was screwy for me too, let me on spent some time on it, then when I went back to get this link wouldnt let me on, lets see if it works now. Right before my previous post.

http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USKnife.pdf

I think that 3" to 3.25" blade is screwy. I thought I heard that was picked because that was under the distance to the heart if stabbed.

It's prob. much less than that in a medium-sized person, particularly if the best angle of entry is used. Most skilled people with a knife will target the kidney, or the clavicle or the carotid/jugular. An under the rib heart shot is hard to acquire, and if you nick the ventricle they still have time. A kidney shot can paralyze sometimes.

$.02

I just measured my S&W specms knife... three and a pinch more than 1/8".... *gasp!!!!


I bet some jackoff cop actually WOULD arrest me for that.... There was an ingham county officer in there though that I showed the knife to and asked if he would jam me up for having that.. he replied he would not, then bought one for himself... heh...


http://www.amazon.com/Smith-Wesson-SPECMS-Serrated-Aluminum/dp/B001B4PJ3M

ElectricianLU58 said:

taylor michigans knife law reads- "All weapons, knives, other sharp edged or pointed instruments carried are hereby declared forfeited to the city"

Click to expand...

Please post link or cite to ordinance. It seems as though there must be more to this, like during the commission of a crime, or while in a "park" or some other type of BS.

Centurion said:

Please post link or cite to ordinance. It seems as though there must be more to this, like during the commission of a crime, or while in a "park" or some other type of BS.

Click to expand...

Sec. 32-345. - Confiscation of firearms and replica firearms.

(a)

All weapons, guns, pistols, firearms, knives, dirks, razors, stilettos, or any other sharp-edged or pointed instruments or weapons carried, contrary to state law, are hereby declared forfeited to the city.

(b)

All replica and imitation firearms, as defined in section 32-358, carried or possessed by any person, contrary to state law are hereby declared forfeited to the city.

Click to expand...

http://library.municode.com/showDoc...R_CH32OF_ARTVIOFAGPUSA_DIV2WE_S32-345COFIREFI

..."weapon with unlawful intent"
doesn't that make blades over 3 inches legal as long as you don't intend to do harm?

smellslikemichigan said:

..."weapon with unlawful intent"
doesn't that make blades over 3 inches legal as long as you don't intend to do harm?

Click to expand...

yes

Thanks for clarity PD

PDinDetroit said:

http://library.municode.com/showDoc...R_CH32OF_ARTVIOFAGPUSA_DIV2WE_S32-345COFIREFI

Click to expand...

Thanks PD I thought the ElectricianLU58 post was a little light on info. The important thing is to note the line which states: carried contrary to state law which would mean Taylor is taking the stance of we follow state law - even if they aren't very clear about it.

Rasher said:

OK try again MGO was screwy for me too, let me on spent some time on it, then when I went back to get this link wouldnt let me on, lets see if it works now. Right before my previous post.

http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USKnife.pdf

Click to expand...

Just what I needed, thank you. Even though this is an open-carry forum this should be a sticky since myself and many other members (I presume) carry knives as EDC. Any chance a moderator can post this up to the top?

Adam

Adame24 said:

Just what I needed, thank you. Even though this is an open-carry forum this should be a sticky since myself and many other members (I presume) carry knives as EDC. Any chance a moderator can post this up to the top?

Adam

Click to expand...

I carry several myself.

I think they also equivocate on the method of carry, and some places (cities?) don't want >3" (+/-) carried concealed and you can carry a hunting knife in a sheath on your belt.

In addition, some LEOs will recognize the intent or lack of and not have a problem. Sometimes these laws are used as 'pile on' charges if you get busted doing a crime. Sometimes innocent things in your car are piled on as B&E tools for the same reasons. If I've just opened some crates and have a crowbar and am found in a driveway where I can't explain my presence, I could get busted for that. I might just be using the driveway (hypothetically) as a place to park and make out with my gf, thinking the house is deserted or something.

IMO, it places too much discretion into the hands of LEOs as to what is ok or not. When we go shooting at the range we often have stuff in the car, targets, multiple HGs and mags and it might look like we're planning a hostile takeover of the locality, lol. In fact I worry that a LEO might ask to search and find a .45 round (shell) that has found its way into the car because it flew into my pants cuff from someone else's HG and it could be construed I used a .45 in a drive-by shooting (argh). Now, I have to explain where my .45 is (I don't own one, sheesh). (actually we had a whole .40 cal bullet in the range bag the other day and I don't have a HG in that caliber either, so no idea how it got there. Maybe someone dropped it and it bounced in, IDK. )

They outlaw bali-song knives because someone thought they looked scary, but allow fixed blade, or folders which I can deploy a lot faster than a bali-song, and in fact, I could use the bali-song as a hand load in non-lethal mode, but that is overlooked in the hysteria.

The truth is, a good FMA could use a 2" blade with lethal effect. It has nothing to do with the blade length, but the politicians try to use their brains and fail to realize that, in reality, they don't really have any (one might argue) so they only mess stuff up with the overly complex laws, which can vary completely as you cross state (or county) lines and not even know it.

Adame24 said:

Just what I needed, thank you. Even though this is an open-carry forum this should be a sticky since myself and many other members (I presume) carry knives as EDC. Any chance a moderator can post this up to the top?

Adam

Click to expand...

Knives are not the primary focus here on OCDO - certainly they are a part of most enthusiast's daily carry, but only in a secondary capacity. We do regularly post/refer to them in that context.

IMO, their order of importance is well located.

Centurion said:

Thanks PD I thought the ElectricianLU58 post was a little light on info. The important thing is to note the line which states: carried contrary to state law which would mean Taylor is taking the stance of we follow state law - even if they aren't very clear about it.

Click to expand...

taylor city ordnance 19-226- All weapons, knives, other sharp edged or pointed instruments carried are hereby declared forfeited to the city

centerline ordnance 46-266 basically says that no knives are legal for carry in centerline.

http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USKnife.pdf