View Poll Results: Boycott On Target Gun Store

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  • YES

    12 80.00%
  • NO

    3 20.00%
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Thread: On Target Boycott VOTE

  1. #1
    Regular Member Tony4310's Avatar
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    On Target Boycott VOTE

    This is being put to a vote!

    I am recommending a boycott of On Target in Valley Park after their recent call in interview on the Dave Clover Show a few days ago in regards to Open Carry. They publically attacked Open Carry and en-turn, attacked the 2A movement and what the U.S. and State Constitution says is our right!

    Let them hear our voices loud and clear!
    Last edited by Tony4310; 06-23-2011 at 10:57 PM.

  2. #2
    Regular Member sohighlyunlikely's Avatar
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    But that's me

    No matter what I will personally be boycotting "on target"

    Doc

  3. #3
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    I voted no.

    I am not sure that Carl was not caught off guard, I am not sure he knows the laws, and I am not sure organizing a boycott against his business is the right choice over education.

    Seems to me that if I owned a gun store and I was not an open carrier, I would very likely have no clue about the laws beyond the FFL ones and if a radio station called asking me to speak, I might jump at the chance to get some free air time, something that would cost me mega bucks to buy and while I would try not to make any mistakes if questioned regarding legal matters I would at least try to give a moderate type of position from the best view I could while being ultimately ignorant of the topic.

    I will also add that my own visions ave gotten a great deal of clarification on these forums when I was wrong, dead wrong and if these forums had "boycotted" me, I indeed would not be advocating for the things I am today.

    If we allow anger to motivate us to bully in contrast to educating or at least attempting to do so FIRST, we will not succeed in our goals.

    This is my opinion, I would like to take special note, I have been to ontarget ONE time, got poor service in my opinion and was disappointed so I have never returned and I have never purchased a weapon from them so I have no connections to them beyond knowing the names of a couple of folks who work there that were banned on the mo ccw website.
    John C. Eastman Associate Dean of Chapman University’s School of Law "the Second Amendment, like its sister amendments, does not confer a right but rather recognizes a natural right inherent in our humanity."

  4. #4
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    Well said LMTD .

  5. #5
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    Although I voted YES, I do agree in some ways with LMTD. My only concern here is Carl did NOT and SHOULD of remained NEUTRAL on the cause. If On Target is NOT supporting the 2A and the CHOICE of every law-abiding citizen to open carry then my business will go somewhere else.

    Jim
    Last edited by jad316; 06-24-2011 at 09:34 AM.

  6. #6
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    It was really late last night so I did not bother, but I just re listened to Carls part of the pod cast, it is first by the way.

    I do not agree at all still. I thought perhaps I missed something the first time that he said that hurt us and I listened and took note the second and I disagree completely, I do not think Carl said anything particularly BAD about oc. Here are my notes:

    refrenced it for varmints aka workin the farm and then wear it in to town
    said it was not too common in this area, not a lot of folks working on farms got redirected
    ar-15 question stated yes an ar in a sling would be a form of open carry
    stated counties and cities can restrict
    got the laws wrong and said under disturbing the peace laws and things like that then went on to say maplewood enacted a law specifically banning open carry
    said there was no preemption it was in a law some years ago with trying to lower the age on ccw but it failed
    does not think he would ever do it himself
    says might if he was showing off his new fancy gun at a bbq
    thinks oc works against you for personal protection and got cut off by host
    where you can vally park and Arnold and was pretty sure you could in a lot of st Charles and stated that he thought that was where "the young man" has been doing quite a bit of open carrying.

    Let me ask you a couple of questions. How many cases have we seen where disturbing the peace was indeed filed against an oc'er? now if you are not active within our community do you think there might be a chance the only thing you would ever see in the paper is the guy GETTING the charge, you know, pretty much like they did with Darrow?

    This is an educational opportunity not a boycott opportunity.

    And quite frankly he was NOT WRONG AT ALL, you damn well may catch a disturbing the peace charge for open carrying, it hs happened several times, it might not stick too well but they have tried it repeatedly over and over so his misunderstanding was no worse than a huge number of folks.

    All I got to say on it in closing is if we are going to try and obtain change, we can not use "a show of force" so to speak as our first response.
    John C. Eastman Associate Dean of Chapman University’s School of Law "the Second Amendment, like its sister amendments, does not confer a right but rather recognizes a natural right inherent in our humanity."

  7. #7
    Regular Member sohighlyunlikely's Avatar
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    outsider

    Quote Originally Posted by Festus_Hagen View Post
    Well said LMTD .
    Thank you for your outsiders perspective, but I believe the question was intended for those here that believe in un infringed 2A rights for all Missourians.

    Doc

  8. #8
    Regular Member cshoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    If you do not go to a business after a first time poor experience then you are in essence boycotting that business.

    As to Carl and being "caught off-guard", not working for me. He, being involved with the store, should know at a minimum the law on CCW and related weapons statutes since they sell CCW classes, and has verbiage on their website that explains a portion of RSMo 571.

    Now does this mean that Carl is required to know anything about the law just because he works at On Target? No, why would a fella who works at a gun store that sells CCW classes and guns need to know anything about his state's weapons laws?
    Carl is the owner of On Target, not just a burger flipper. In addition, Carl is an instructor as well, so he should have at least a cursory understanding of how OC is treated here in Missouri as well as in his local area. On that note, I certainly wouldn't expect him to know every statute or restriction word for word or by Chapter and Section. I WOULD expect him to know the difference between "Disturbing The Peace" and lawful open carry.

    Boycotting On Target is a moot point for me. I live far enough away from Carl's store that it's simply not an option for me when it comes time to buy something. Whether or not there SHOULD be a boycott is up to anyone who would have been a potential customer. Has anyone who is thinking about boycotting OT sent Carl an email or picked up the phone and talked to him directly to give him a chance to, perhaps, explain his position? Has anyone stopped by and visited with him about it? Has anyone walked into his store with their OC and received a bad reaction to it? Might be worth trying to talk to him and bring him on board as an ally before boycotting him and definitely turning him into an enemy, especially if he is someone that local media will turn to for an opinion when the subject of OC comes up.
    Last edited by cshoff; 06-24-2011 at 12:45 PM.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Tony4310's Avatar
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    I just want everyone to know my views are my own and I won't hassle anyone if they so choose to do business with On Target. I personally won't,but that is my choice.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    In my view a fella in his line of work just plain needs to know better. The positive example, the opportunity to educate was completely lost and he was not ready at a moments notice to project the positive image we all strive to project.
    I understand your position, however offer no such educational paths seem to exist.

    Doc has a video from adventure sports, they tossed him for OC, Cabella's has done the same as well as bass pro though through education those two were indeed repaired. I can assure you this conversation would be a lot more agressive had it been Mike from MIKES guns he might have even said OC'ers are idiots. I OC'ed into pistols plus much to the surprise of the staff and management on duty, the closest one got was saying he had heard it MIGHT be legal. I can not speak for NASSAU, I am not sure I have OC'ed there or not, I do not think so since I usually hit them during the week. I also do not know about midwest outfitters, I have never OC'ed there either.

    I personally think your thoughts on gun shops being any level of resource on legalities beyond the purchase is misguided. A lot of folks get a lot of really bad advice from gun stores, I have read several stories of such things on forums and it is generally accepted they are NOT to be considered any level of a resource for such information.
    John C. Eastman Associate Dean of Chapman University’s School of Law "the Second Amendment, like its sister amendments, does not confer a right but rather recognizes a natural right inherent in our humanity."

  11. #11
    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    I'm usually all about boycotts. If someone doesn't "get it", I'm usually all about educating them by the removal of my financial support.

    However, I'm perplexed when it's (supposedly) "one of our own". I question someone's intentions when they fight so hard to achieve a goal that we all agree with, but once that goal is achieved, pull a 180 and become exactly the same as the people you just fought so hard to convince.

    I'm not going to vote because I firmly believe that Carl is pro 2A. therefore, "one of us".

    However, it is just plain sad that he fought the ignorant attitudes of the masses for CCW....

    ...only to spout off the same ignorant attitude towards OC that he fought for CCW.

    It reeks of hypocrisy. He's all for the right to keep and bear arms......if you do it in a manner he approves.

    Therefore, I'll recuse myself from voting because I'm torn. I'm not going to vote for a boycott, but in the interest of solidarity with my OC bretheren, I'll avoid doing business there, myself, until he makes up his mind whether he supports ALL 2A cuases....or just some.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Broondog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlite27 View Post

    It reeks of hypocrisy. He's all for the right to keep and bear arms......if you do it in a manner he approves.
    DING DING DING!!! we have a winner!

    this is exactly the way many (not all) of the CCW instructors that i have ever spoken with or heard about think. it is an incredibly biased position and IMO is fueled by financial greed. one would think that an instructor of any sort would be knowledgeable about ALL sides and aspects of their craft.

    to be any less is incomprehensible to me. i go to an instructor for an education, not biased opinion and propaganda.

    i must say that i have had very few dealings with On Target as, like cshoff, the place is just way out of my way to be viable place for me to do business. but the few times i did go there i was not really impressed. the staff seemed a bit condescending and arrogant. and one guy wasn't even sure if i could use my C&R to buy a qualifying firearm. however, the price i got on those mil-surps was in order.

    but i suppose that that leads back to education.

    boycott if you like. it makes me no nevermind.
    I'm the one who's gotta die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life the way I want to.
    Jimi Hendrix

    NRA Benefactor Member & 03 FFL

  13. #13
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    Like the first reply, i boycott on target for my own purposes.

    Outrageous prices and primarily terrible customer service (full out ignored even though asking questions) until I walked in looking for a holster with a S&W pre-27, then the guy could't get enough of me while asking to handle it.

    I have two letters for them that I'll refrain from posting.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by sohighlyunlikely View Post
    Thank you for your outsiders perspective, but I believe the question was intended for those here that believe in un infringed 2A rights for all Missourians.

    Doc
    Your right. He and I do not matter.

    Sorry DOC

    You don't know me. I'll leave it at that.
    Last edited by Festus_Hagen; 06-27-2011 at 10:20 PM.

  15. #15
    Regular Member Tony4310's Avatar
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    They were added to the Boycott list today by Doc. He read the email they sent me after writing them.

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