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Thread: Monroe State Pen

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    Monroe State Pen

    I was told if I so much as enter the property with a firearm in the car I would be arrested. I have a call in to my pre-Paid legal atty to see if RCW 9.41.300 applies to them, and if there are any other laws that allow them to do so. I may only live 20 min away but what about other parents driving from eastern-wa. does the state say they must make the drive unarmed? its not legal to leave a fire-arm in a hotel that you can't say no one else has access to it. so if so, what options do we the law abiding folk have when we are trying to help other from coming out and reoffending.

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    I have carried to the Monroe pen several times. Each time I left my gun locked in the car, locked in the glove box. If the car is in the parking lot, locked, and the gun hidden inside, don't ask, don't tell you will be ok.

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    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    I've left guns in hotel rooms many times, never had a problem with it.

    That's why one should own some cheap guns

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    This is what you are looking for, ensure you have your CPL and I am curious of who told you about being arrested? Anyone of authority or someone assuming or it could be both.

    RCW 9.94.043 Deadly weapons -- Possession on premises by person not a prisoner -- Penalty.

    A person, other than a person serving a sentence in a penal institution of this state, is guilty of possession of contraband on the premises of a state correctional institution in the first degree if, without authorization to do so, the person knowingly possesses or has under his or her control a deadly weapon on or in the buildings or adjacent grounds subject to the care, control, or supervision of a state correctional institution. Deadly weapon is used as defined in RCW 9A.04.110: PROVIDED, That such correctional buildings, grounds, or property are properly posted pursuant to RCW 9.94.047, and such person has knowingly entered thereon: PROVIDED FURTHER, That the provisions of this section do not apply to a person licensed pursuant to RCW 9.41.070 who, upon entering the correctional institution premises, proceeds directly along an access road to the administration building and promptly checks his or her firearm(s) with the appropriate authorities. The person may reclaim his or her firearm(s) upon leaving, but he or she must immediately and directly depart from the premises.

    Possession of contraband on the premises of a state correctional institution in the first degree is a class B felony.

    RCW 9.94.049" Correctional institution" and "state correctional institution" defined.

    (1) For the purposes of this chapter, the term "correctional institution" means any place designated by law for the keeping of persons held in custody under process of law, or under lawful arrest, including state prisons, county and local jails, and other facilities operated by the department of corrections or local governmental units primarily for the purposes of punishment, correction, or rehabilitation following conviction of a criminal offense.

    (2) For the purposes of RCW 9.94.043 and 9.94.045, "state correctional institution" means all state correctional facilities under the supervision of the secretary of the department of corrections used solely for the purpose of confinement of convicted felons.
    Last edited by BigDave; 06-24-2011 at 02:47 AM.
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    From what i understand

    Federal law prohibits me from leaving a firearm where I can not reasonably assume that a felon can access it. I wish I had a reference but thats what I was told when I talked to the State Patrol firearms division when I asked if I could leave it in my car when i checked it with valet services. A hotel wouldn't be different since maids, etc at a hotel have access and its not a background check required job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    This is what you are looking for, ensure you have your CPL and I am curious of who told you about being arrested? Anyone of authority or someone assuming or it could be both.

    RCW 9.94.043 Deadly weapons -- Possession on premises by person not a prisoner -- Penalty.

    A person, other than a person serving a sentence in a penal institution of this state, is guilty of possession of contraband on the premises of a state correctional institution in the first degree if, without authorization to do so, the person knowingly possesses or has under his or her control a deadly weapon on or in the buildings or adjacent grounds subject to the care, control, or supervision of a state correctional institution. Deadly weapon is used as defined in RCW 9A.04.110: PROVIDED, That such correctional buildings, grounds, or property are properly posted pursuant to RCW 9.94.047, and such person has knowingly entered thereon: PROVIDED FURTHER, That the provisions of this section do not apply to a person licensed pursuant to RCW 9.41.070 who, upon entering the correctional institution premises, proceeds directly along an access road to the administration building and promptly checks his or her firearm(s) with the appropriate authorities. The person may reclaim his or her firearm(s) upon leaving, but he or she must immediately and directly depart from the premises.

    Possession of contraband on the premises of a state correctional institution in the first degree is a class B felony.

    RCW 9.94.049" Correctional institution" and "state correctional institution" defined.

    (1) For the purposes of this chapter, the term "correctional institution" means any place designated by law for the keeping of persons held in custody under process of law, or under lawful arrest, including state prisons, county and local jails, and other facilities operated by the department of corrections or local governmental units primarily for the purposes of punishment, correction, or rehabilitation following conviction of a criminal offense.

    (2) For the purposes of RCW 9.94.043 and 9.94.045, "state correctional institution" means all state correctional facilities under the supervision of the secretary of the department of corrections used solely for the purpose of confinement of convicted felons.

    does this require them to or can they refuse me access to visiting the prisioner?

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    It says in the last posts quote that if you have a CPL, you can check in your firearm. Although I would call ahead and find out if you check it in the administrative building or at the sally ports for incoming.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    There are numerous safe storage devices for firearms that work very well in Hotel rooms. These lock boxes that people buy to secure their pistols in their cars work well in a hotel room as well. Just secure the cable to any rack or fixed piece of furniture and cover it with some clothing or luggage. I used to secure a box I had like these to the metal rack in the closet/luggage area and then just put the spare blanket back on top of it.

    The maids don't know when you are going to return, especially if you leave signs that you might have just left to go to your car. Leave the TV on, some papers on the desk with a pen/pencil on them.
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    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    Higher class hotels (4-5 star?) might have an in-room safe. Also you could box it and check it in as jewelry at the main desk - they often have a safe. I would advise against leaving it in your room.

    Consider, even with the legality, trying to "explain" to a LEO why your HG was stolen and used in a felony. It's just your word that you secured it in the hotel room. Problem? Who knows? Again, it would just be uncomfortable knowing your HG was in a room to which many people might have a key and (we don't know) in which room there might be surveillance so anyone could see you in the room with a HG as a target for theft. Paranoid? IDK. I've often suspected that hotels have surveillance we don't know about. It's not legal in a bathroom, but there might be 'anti-theft' monitors in the room.

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RSperry79 View Post
    does this require them to or can they refuse me access to visiting the prisioner?
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    I would say that the statute BigDave posted (thank you, BigDave!) in no way obligates the correctional facility to receive the firearm from you. The statute simply prevents them from being able to arrest you for fulfilling your duties set forth in the statute.
    Is the Monroe prison covered by this:

    9.41.300

    (1) It is unlawful for any person to enter the following places when he or she knowingly possesses or knowingly has under his or her control a weapon:

    (a) The restricted access areas of a jail, or of a law enforcement facility, or any place used for the confinement of a person (i) arrested for, charged with, or convicted of an offense, (ii) held for extradition or as a material witness, or (iii) otherwise confined pursuant to an order of a court, except an order under chapter 13.32A or 13.34 RCW. Restricted access areas do not include common areas of egress or ingress open to the general public;

    (b) Those areas in any building which are used in connection with court proceedings, including courtrooms, jury rooms, judge's chambers, offices and areas used to conduct court business, waiting areas, and corridors adjacent to areas used in connection with court proceedings. The restricted areas do not include common areas of ingress and egress to the building that is used in connection with court proceedings, when it is possible to protect court areas without restricting ingress and egress to the building. The restricted areas shall be the minimum necessary to fulfill the objective of this subsection (1)(b).

    For purposes of this subsection (1)(b), "weapon" means any firearm, explosive as defined in RCW 70.74.010, or any weapon of the kind usually known as slung shot, sand club, or metal knuckles, or any knife, dagger, dirk, or other similar weapon that is capable of causing death or bodily injury and is commonly used with the intent to cause death or bodily injury.

    In addition, the local legislative authority shall provide either a stationary locked box sufficient in size for pistols and key to a weapon owner for weapon storage, or shall designate an official to receive weapons for safekeeping, during the owner's visit to restricted areas of the building. The locked box or designated official shall be located within the same building used in connection with court proceedings. The local legislative authority shall be liable for any negligence causing damage to or loss of a weapon either placed in a locked box or left with an official during the owner's visit to restricted areas of the building.

    The local judicial authority shall designate and clearly mark those areas where weapons are prohibited, and shall post notices at each entrance to the building of the prohibition against weapons in the restricted areas;
    Last edited by gogodawgs; 06-24-2011 at 11:50 AM.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by RSperry79 View Post
    does this require them to or can they refuse me access to visiting the prisoner?
    Please answer the question as to who you are getting your information from?
    If you are going to call at least ask for the Superintendent.

    A visit can be cancelled for violation of visiting rules or a violation of law.

    The RCW 9.94.043 I quoted directly relates to the City, County and State Correctional Facilities and provide for one with a CPL to go directly to the administration building and check your firearm and then when done to retrieve it and leave the premises.

    When I worked at Walla Walla State Penn there were lock boxes at the guard shack entering the grounds.
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  12. #12
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    In addition, the local legislative authority shall provide either a stationary locked box sufficient in size for pistols and key to a weapon owner for weapon storage, or shall designate an official to receive weapons for safekeeping, during the owner's visit to restricted areas of the building. The locked box or designated official shall be located within the same building used in connection with court proceedings. The local legislative authority shall be liable for any negligence causing damage to or loss of a weapon either placed in a locked box or left with an official during the owner's visit to restricted areas of the building.

    The local judicial authority shall designate and clearly mark those areas where weapons are prohibited, and shall post notices at each entrance to the building of the prohibition against weapons in the restricted areas;
    "The local legislative authority" is notlaw enforcement but the courts ie Legislative authority.

    Although you see in RCW 9.94.043 it directs the City or County Jail and State Correctional Facilities to make this accommodation.

    RCW 9.94.043
    PROVIDED FURTHER, That the provisions of this section do not apply to a person licensed pursuant to RCW 9.41.070 who, upon entering the correctional institution premises, proceeds directly along an access road to the administration building and promptly checks his or her firearm(s) with the appropriate authorities. The person may reclaim his or her firearm(s) upon leaving, but he or she must immediately and directly depart from the premises.

    This is not to say you will not be meet with resistance but I would recommend talking to the highest employed person at Monroe Penn as the Superintendent.
    Last edited by BigDave; 06-24-2011 at 12:43 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Is the Monroe prison covered by this:

    9.41.300

    (1) It is unlawful for any person to enter the following places when he or she knowingly possesses or knowingly has under his or her control a weapon:

    (a) The restricted access areas of a jail, or of a law enforcement facility, or any place used for the confinement of a person (i) arrested for, charged with, or convicted of an offense, (ii) held for extradition or as a material witness, or (iii) otherwise confined pursuant to an order of a court, except an order under chapter 13.32A or 13.34 RCW. Restricted access areas do not include common areas of egress or ingress open to the general public;

    (b) Those areas in any building which are used in connection with court proceedings, including courtrooms, jury rooms, judge's chambers, offices and areas used to conduct court business, waiting areas, and corridors adjacent to areas used in connection with court proceedings. The restricted areas do not include common areas of ingress and egress to the building that is used in connection with court proceedings, when it is possible to protect court areas without restricting ingress and egress to the building. The restricted areas shall be the minimum necessary to fulfill the objective of this subsection (1)(b).

    For purposes of this subsection (1)(b), "weapon" means any firearm, explosive as defined in RCW 70.74.010, or any weapon of the kind usually known as slung shot, sand club, or metal knuckles, or any knife, dagger, dirk, or other similar weapon that is capable of causing death or bodily injury and is commonly used with the intent to cause death or bodily injury.

    In addition, the local legislative authority shall provide either a stationary locked box sufficient in size for pistols and key to a weapon owner for weapon storage, or shall designate an official to receive weapons for safekeeping, during the owner's visit to restricted areas of the building. The locked box or designated official shall be located within the same building used in connection with court proceedings. The local legislative authority shall be liable for any negligence causing damage to or loss of a weapon either placed in a locked box or left with an official during the owner's visit to restricted areas of the building.

    The local judicial authority shall designate and clearly mark those areas where weapons are prohibited, and shall post notices at each entrance to the building of the prohibition against weapons in the restricted areas;
    That does not cover Prisons or Penitentiaries. This RCW only makes reference to jails. Although they are both used for confinement they are different types of institutions.
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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    Joeroket,

    I believe you missed this part of the statute:

    Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the Monroe State Penitenary (I can't spell it) used to confine persons convicted of offenses?
    Amazing, I spelled it out and apparently some still cannot read, 300 is not the one that applies here, although RCW 9.94.043 does, take time to read it.
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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Dave-

    What is apparent here is what happens in other areas of the State Statutes. One statute specifically deals with prisons and penitentiaries and the other with Firearms in general with a mention of "places used for confinement".

    I would follow the statute covering the Prisons when visiting a prison and make sure I had a printed copy of the Statute on my person when doing so.
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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Dave-

    What is apparent here is what happens in other areas of the State Statutes. One statute specifically deals with prisons and penitentiaries and the other with Firearms in general with a mention of "places used for confinement".

    I would follow the statute covering the Prisons when visiting a prison and make sure I had a printed copy of the Statute on my person when doing so.
    One would think that until they read as the topic is a State Penitentiary/Correctional Facility.

    RCW 9.94.049" Correctional institution" and "state correctional institution" defined.

    (1) For the purposes of this chapter, the term "correctional institution" means any place designated by law for the keeping of persons held in custody under process of law, or under lawful arrest, including state prisons, county and local jails, and other facilities operated by the department of corrections or local governmental units primarily for the purposes of punishment, correction, or rehabilitation following conviction of a criminal offense.

    (2) For the purposes of RCW 9.94.043 and 9.94.045, "state correctional institution" means all state correctional facilities under the supervision of the secretary of the department of corrections used solely for the purpose of confinement of convicted felons.

    Also note people convicted and sentenced to less then 1 year are held at the City or County Jails along with those awaiting for trial which is still confinement as well.
    I can see there may be an argument on the issue of "primarily for the purposes of punishment, correction, or rehabilitation following conviction of a criminal offense." for County or City Jails, but I think it will not float well.
    Last edited by BigDave; 06-25-2011 at 03:30 PM.
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    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    To the OP, if you're really worried about it you might try calling the Monroe pawnshop, or local gun stores (there's one in the city of Snohomish) to see if they would be willing to hold your gun for a couple hours.

    Just explain your issue, and hope for some small town, friendly and helpful customer service.

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    BigDave, Explain to me how RCW 9.41.300 subparagraph (1)(a) does NOT apply to Monroe Correctional Complex?
    What does 9.41.300 really provide when it comes to jails or correctional facilities.
    Restricted access areas do not include common areas of egress or ingress open to the general public;
    At this point in time usually the local law enforcement determine common areas of egress or ingress open to the general public, unfortunately and many departments get away with what I consider greater restriction then intended although I nor I think most anyone else in here has the funds to see this through to have every over restricted area come into compliance.
    Example Walla Walla Penn there is a guard booth where public access is gained and the only area open to the public is the parking lot to that guard shack thus restricted from that point on to the administration building (note they had lock boxes at the guard shack, not sure if they still do).

    So what do we get from 9.41.300(1)(a) not much.

    Correctional Facilities in Chapter 9.94.043 authorizes one with a CPL to be armed and access an area to secure your firearm.

    If you end up in court, which RCW will give you authority to access the facility to secure your weapon? 9.94.043
    Last edited by BigDave; 06-25-2011 at 05:53 PM.
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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    I have shot off an email to Scott Frakes, Superintendent of Monroe Penitentiary requesting any additional information concerning securing a self defense firearm upon visiting his facility as provide for in Chapter 9.94.043.

    See if I get a response.
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    i got the information from the receptionist. Not the best person, but as a visitor I'd like to stay one. I did talk to a lawyer and the did say that .300 doesn't apply as it has no local governing body to enforce the statute.

    they did say that no where in the law does the facility have to allow me access, so the best advice is to, "leave it at home."

    statistics show that felons that don't get visitors are at a greater risk to re-offend. we need a clear law that says, they cant refuse me just because I'm not a felon and exercise my rights as such.

    sorry about the delay, too much drama in my life as of late.

  21. #21
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Just some food for thought

    The Monroe facility is a State Corrections facility. It's operated by the State and as such "preemption" wouldn't apply. It only applies if the City of Monroe, or Snohomish County, were to pass an ordinance regulating firearms on the premises of the "Prison". The State Law doesn't preempt the State's actions.

    Only statute that would apply is the one pertaining to corrections facilities, not the preemption statute.
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  22. #22
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RSperry79 View Post
    i got the information from the receptionist. Not the best person, but as a visitor I'd like to stay one. I did talk to a lawyer and the did say that .300 doesn't apply as it has no local governing body to enforce the statute.

    they did say that no where in the law does the facility have to allow me access, so the best advice is to, "leave it at home."

    statistics show that felons that don't get visitors are at a greater risk to re-offend. we need a clear law that says, they cant refuse me just because I'm not a felon and exercise my rights as such.

    sorry about the delay, too much drama in my life as of late.
    It is clear you are not reading or comprehending as I have laid this out for you in this thread a few times that 9.41.300 does not apply but under chapter covering 9.94 RCW Prisoners correctional institutions Does !

    So either take the time to read it and understand it or go unarmed for your entire trip.

    Your misguided exercise is a great example that not all attorneys know all the laws and what applies, you gave him a specific question and he answered it correctly but did not know the RCW that applies that requires DOC to secure your weapon and return it upon your arrival and departure.

    RCW 9.94.043 Deadly weapons -- Possession on premises by person not a prisoner -- Penalty.

    A person, other than a person serving a sentence in a penal institution of this state, is guilty of possession of contraband on the premises of a state correctional institution in the first degree if, without authorization to do so, the person knowingly possesses or has under his or her control a deadly weapon on or in the buildings or adjacent grounds subject to the care, control, or supervision of a state correctional institution. Deadly weapon is used as defined in RCW 9A.04.110: PROVIDED, That such correctional buildings, grounds, or property are properly posted pursuant to RCW 9.94.047, and such person has knowingly entered thereon: PROVIDED FURTHER, That the provisions of this section do not apply to a person licensed pursuant to RCW 9.41.070 who, upon entering the correctional institution premises, proceeds directly along an access road to the administration building and promptly checks his or her firearm(s) with the appropriate authorities. The person may reclaim his or her firearm(s) upon leaving, but he or she must immediately and directly depart from the premises.

    Possession of contraband on the premises of a state correctional institution in the first degree is a class B felony.

    RCW 9.94.049" Correctional institution" and "state correctional institution" defined.

    (1) For the purposes of this chapter, the term "correctional institution" means any place designated by law for the keeping of persons held in custody under process of law, or under lawful arrest, including state prisons, county and local jails, and other facilities operated by the department of corrections or local governmental units primarily for the purposes of punishment, correction, or rehabilitation following conviction of a criminal offense.

    (2) For the purposes of RCW 9.94.043 and 9.94.045, "state correctional institution" means all state correctional facilities under the supervision of the secretary of the department of corrections used solely for the purpose of confinement of convicted felons.
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  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Agreed. Everyone read what BD has posted. It is the RCW covering the state correctional institutes. And mirrors .300 to cover citizens.
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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Agreed. Everyone read what BD has posted. It is the RCW covering the state correctional institutes. And mirrors .300 to cover citizens.
    Not only covers State Correctional Institutions it covers City and County Jails as well.
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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    The chapter is addressing correctional institutions and deadly weapons providing prohibitions and what is this "PROVIDED FURTHER, That the provisions of this section do not apply to a person licensed pursuant to RCW 9.41.070 who, upon entering the correctional institution premises, proceeds directly along an access road to the administration building and promptly checks his or her firearm(s) with the appropriate authorities. The person may reclaim his or her firearm(s) upon leaving, but he or she must immediately and directly depart from the premises.

    Oh I see you cannot understand who the appropriate authorities are! How about trying to attach that meaning to the one charged with the security and operation of the institution.

    Try avoid adding wording to what the law states, that is what the Anti Gun Group and Brady Bunch do.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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